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1200Re: white American players

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  • mikel_ind
    Aug 23, 2002
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      --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "harlanzo" <harlanzo@y...> wrote:
      > Mike, I think your chart really is a reflection of the expansion of
      > the talent pool. White american stars are bound to decline as
      > basketball became more national and then global.

      I have no idea how this conclusion is reached. If you are a star
      player, and your team picks up another star, do you become a weaker
      player?


      > I've got to wonder
      > if the euro stars will soon eclipse white americans in number.

      It's already happened, by my count.


      > I guess the question to ask is to what factors created this
      decline.
      > Is it a result a of merely an expanding talent pool? or are teams
      > less cognizant of having white players featured or even being the
      > 12th man?

      It is certainly likely that 12th men are being displaced by other
      12th men. That's why my study was limited to a group that
      constitutes starter-quality players. Unless the league becomes more
      than 50% Euro, no 'good' Americans have been bumped from the league.

      The notion of 'featured players' is interesting. When Dan Majerle
      played 40 minutes in Phoenix, he got close to 20 ppg and went to
      allstar games. Since I filter out the effect of minutes (somewhat),
      I never thought he was close to being an allstar.


      > I do remember in the early 80s Peter Vecsey made a big
      > deal about the Knicks having an all-black team for the first time.
      > It wasn't meant to be a racist notion but people definitely thought
      > it was a noteworthy item. Now, this is not an issue. (There may
      > still be towns that are cognizant of it; i do remember Milwaukee
      all
      > white front court of the early 90s and Utah also seems to find more
      > white players than most teams). But this has to be somewhat of a
      > factor.

      There was the famous instance in Philly, where Sir Charles complained
      that the 12th-man spot was given to a white guy, just because he was
      the last white guy in the cut. Isiah Thomas and Larry Bird were
      drawn into the fracas, eventually. Everyone made their point and
      moved on.

      I may do a comparison of your allstar breakdown (below) and my
      lists. My hunch is that prominent white players are less likely to
      be overlooked in allstar selection. Szczerbiak comes to mind.


      > I did a quick peek at the number of white americans all-stars over
      > the years to see if they reflected your numbers. Here is the
      > breakdown based on the categories white american, white european,
      and
      > african american (i'll consider ewing, duncan, mutombo, and
      olajuwon
      > in the african american segment for the study)(injured players are
      > also included)( i stopped in the 50s where I was not sure who was
      > what ethnicity but before 1957 there really weren't more than 1 or
      2
      > black players on the team):
      >
      > WA WE AA
      > 2002 2 2 20
      > 2001 0 1 27
      > 2000 1 0 23
      > 1999 (no game)
      > 1998 0 1 23
      > 1997 3 1 25
      > 1996 1 0 23
      > 1995 2 1 22
      > 1994 2 0 24
      > 1993 4 1 21
      > 1992 6 0 20
      > 1991 4 0 21
      > 1990 4 0 21
      > 1989 6 0 19
      > 1988 2 0 22
      > 1987 4 0 21
      > 1986 2 0 24
      > 1985 3 0 21
      > 1984 8 0 16
      > 1983 5 0 19
      > 1982 4 0 21
      > 1981 4 0 19
      > 1980 3 0 19
      > 1979 5 0 18
      > 1978 9 0 14
      > 1977 11 0 15
      > 1976 8 0 16
      > 1975 6 0 18
      > 1974 6 0 18
      > 1973 11 0 17
      > 1972 8 0 18
      > 1971 10 0 16
      > 1970 7 0 18
      > 1969 10 0 15
      > 1968 7 0 18
      > 1967 9 0 11
      > 1966 9 0 11
      > 1965 7 0 14
      > 1964 9 0 11
      > 1963 15 0 9
      > 1962 15 0 10
      > 1961 13 0 9
      > 1960 16 0 5
      > 1959 17 0 3
      > 1958 17 0 3
      > 1957 17 0 3
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