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Re: [ANE-2] Wikipedia, the Boomerang, staff slings

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  • David Hall
    Throw sticks were used for hunting birds in ancient Egypt.  The hunter stood atop a papyrus skiff and tried to knock down a duck or goose:  
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 1, 2009
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      Throw sticks were used for hunting birds in ancient Egypt.  The hunter stood atop a papyrus skiff and tried to knock down a duck or goose:
       
      http://i-cias.com/egypt/photos/beni_hassan01.jpg

      A throw stick was found in King Tut's tomb:

      http://www.touregypt.net/museum/boomerangpage.htm
       
      David Q. Hall
      dqhall59@...

      --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Andrés Piquer Otero <erewan@...> wrote:

      From: Andrés Piquer Otero <erewan@...>
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Wikipedia, the Boomerang, staff slings
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 1:25 PM






      Clark Whelton wrote:
      >
      >
      > I'm not sure that throw sticks, such as boomerangs, were used as
      > weapons or for hunting in the ANE.
      >
      > Clark Whelton
      > New York
      >
      >
      >

      Off the head, I recall O. Keel's "The Iconography of the Ancient Near
      East" including a number of ANE pictorial renderings with weapons that
      the author (or the academic sources he cites) interpret as "throwing
      sticks", whatever that instrument is.

      Andrés Piquer Otero
    • Brian Colless
      It is time I responded (favourably) to this. Whenever I encounter boomerang-deniers in connection with the origin of the letter G (gaml throwstick ; not
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 6, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        It is time I responded (favourably) to this.

        Whenever I encounter boomerang-deniers in connection with the origin
        of the letter G (gaml 'throwstick'; not camel, as taught in Hebew
        school!) my gentle retort is, as I said in my earlier trumpet vs bugle
        message (31 Jan 2009):

        "I remember seeing Tutankhamon's missiles on show in the Cairo Museum,
        with examples of Australian boomerangs for comparison; the difference
        was that his are made of ivory."

        I also have a big picture book of *Wonders of Tutankhamun* (Crown,
        1978). It turns out to be the same source that David has named:

        > A throw stick was found in King Tut's tomb:
        >
        > http://www.touregypt.net/museum/boomerangpage.htm
        >


        Actually, there was one ivory boomerang in his tomb, and some wooden
        ones.
        That source says that throw sticks and boomerangs were found in the
        Annex of the tomb.
        What is the difference?
        Not all Australian boomerangs are 'returning' missiles, though
        'boomerang' implies recoiling in English usage.

        When thinking about the gamlu (Krummholz, Bumerang, von Soden; bent
        stick, throwing-stick, Concise D) my mind plays with g-m-l as
        connoting completion and repayment, hence the returning aspect. Is
        this a silly idea that needs to be cleaned out of my head?

        Do the bentness and curving notions come from the boomerang and are
        then applied to the camel? And the sickle (maggalu)?

        I note that the throw-stick was used in all periods in ancient Egypt.
        And its hieroglyph ( T 14) is a determinative for 'throw-stick' from
        a root meaning 'throw') is also a club (Gardiner says) as det. of
        foreign peoples.

        What goes round comes round. Have you seen the French movie where a
        businessman is playing with his boomerangs en plein air? He launches
        one, then answers his phone, and .......

        Brian Colless
        Massey University, NZ

        On 2/02/2009, at 3:33 AM, David Hall wrote:

        > Throw sticks were used for hunting birds in ancient Egypt. The
        > hunter stood atop a papyrus skiff and tried to knock down a duck or
        > goose:
        >
        > http://i-cias.com/egypt/photos/beni_hassan01.jpg
        >
        > A throw stick was found in King Tut's tomb:
        >
        > http://www.touregypt.net/museum/boomerangpage.htm
        >
        > David Q. Hall
        > dqhall59@...
        >
        > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Andrés Piquer Otero <erewan@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Andrés Piquer Otero <erewan@...>
        > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Wikipedia, the Boomerang, staff slings
        > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 1:25 PM
        >
        > Clark Whelton wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > I'm not sure that throw sticks, such as boomerangs, were used as
        > > weapons or for hunting in the ANE.
        > >
        > > Clark Whelton
        > > New York
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > Off the head, I recall O. Keel's "The Iconography of the Ancient Near
        > East" including a number of ANE pictorial renderings with weapons that
        > the author (or the academic sources he cites) interpret as "throwing
        > sticks", whatever that instrument is.
        >
        > Andrés Piquer Otero
        >
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Hall
        I recall a lecture given by a medical professor about Ancient Egyptian Medicine to a group of people interested in history.  He had a photo of a flat ivory
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 7, 2009
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          I recall a lecture given by a medical professor about Ancient Egyptian Medicine to a group of people interested in history.  He had a photo of a flat ivory object shaped like a boomerang that he had identified as a "birthing wand."  He also showed a three legged stool he indicated may have been used by midwives during childbirth.  I went to him after the lecture and told him I thought it was a throwstick.  I had spent some time memorizing some of the art at the Beni Hasan tombs in Middle Egypt from the early second millenium. 
           
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_(hieroglyph) 
           
          The professor was able to show a slide of some petrie dish cultures on agar showing that myrhh was an antiobiotic and inhibited the growth of bacteria.  He indicated the Egyptians may have known about its anitbiotic properties and gave evidence for AE trade with Eastern Africa and India.  A check of articles about the use of myrhh as an antibiotic in ancient Egypt in google.com revealed more proponents of the theory myrhh was used as an antiobiotic and also to embalm mummies in ancient Egypt. 
           
          David Q. Hall
          dqhall59@...
           
           


          --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Brian Colless <briancolless@...> wrote:

          From: Brian Colless <briancolless@...>
          Subject: [ANE-2] Boomerangs in ANE
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 12:42 AM






          It is time I responded (favourably) to this.

          Whenever I encounter boomerang-deniers in connection with the origin
          of the letter G (gaml 'throwstick' ; not camel, as taught in Hebew
          school!) my gentle retort is, as I said in my earlier trumpet vs bugle
          message (31 Jan 2009):

          "I remember seeing Tutankhamon' s missiles on show in the Cairo Museum,
          with examples of Australian boomerangs for comparison; the difference
          was that his are made of ivory."

          I also have a big picture book of *Wonders of Tutankhamun* (Crown,
          1978). It turns out to be the same source that David has named:

          > A throw stick was found in King Tut's tomb:
          >
          > http://www.touregyp t.net/museum/ boomerangpage. htm
          >

          Actually, there was one ivory boomerang in his tomb, and some wooden
          ones.
          That source says that throw sticks and boomerangs were found in the
          Annex of the tomb.
          What is the difference?
          Not all Australian boomerangs are 'returning' missiles, though
          'boomerang' implies recoiling in English usage.

          When thinking about the gamlu (Krummholz, Bumerang, von Soden; bent
          stick, throwing-stick, Concise D) my mind plays with g-m-l as
          connoting completion and repayment, hence the returning aspect. Is
          this a silly idea that needs to be cleaned out of my head?

          Do the bentness and curving notions come from the boomerang and are
          then applied to the camel? And the sickle (maggalu)?

          I note that the throw-stick was used in all periods in ancient Egypt.
          And its hieroglyph ( T 14) is a determinative for 'throw-stick' from
          a root meaning 'throw') is also a club (Gardiner says) as det. of
          foreign peoples.

          What goes round comes round. Have you seen the French movie where a
          businessman is playing with his boomerangs en plein air? He launches
          one, then answers his phone, and .......

          Brian Colless
          Massey University, NZ

          On 2/02/2009, at 3:33 AM, David Hall wrote:

          > Throw sticks were used for hunting birds in ancient Egypt. The
          > hunter stood atop a papyrus skiff and tried to knock down a duck or
          > goose:
          >
          > http://i-cias. com/egypt/ photos/beni_ hassan01. jpg
          >
          > A throw stick was found in King Tut's tomb:
          >
          > http://www.touregyp t.net/museum/ boomerangpage. htm
          >
          > David Q. Hall
          > dqhall59@yahoo. com
          >
          > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Andrés Piquer Otero <erewan@terra. es> wrote:
          >
          > From: Andrés Piquer Otero <erewan@terra. es>
          > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Wikipedia, the Boomerang, staff slings
          > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
          > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 1:25 PM
          >
          > Clark Whelton wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I'm not sure that throw sticks, such as boomerangs, were used as
          > > weapons or for hunting in the ANE.
          > >
          > > Clark Whelton
          > > New York
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > Off the head, I recall O. Keel's "The Iconography of the Ancient Near
          > East" including a number of ANE pictorial renderings with weapons that
          > the author (or the academic sources he cites) interpret as "throwing
          > sticks", whatever that instrument is.
          >
          > Andrés Piquer Otero
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Brian Colless
          Yes, I went to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_(hieroglyph) (but I had to do a search to get through to it, as the bit in round brackets did not
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 8, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes, I went to
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_(hieroglyph)
            (but I had to do a search to get through to it, as the bit in round
            brackets did not register, did not light up in blue)

            The word ga, 'throw-stick' is offered in a little box; interesting;
            It was already saying G before it was borrowed for the proto-alphabet?

            One surprise for me was on the Narmer Palette (which I have studied
            very closely in the past): the Horus Hawk is holding one; the King is
            wielding a 'donger' (club) to smash skulls.

            The alleged 'birthing wand' is a puzzle to me.

            Brian Colless
            Massey U, NZ


            On 8/02/2009, at 3:14 AM, David Hall wrote:

            >
            > I recall a lecture given by a medical professor about Ancient
            > Egyptian Medicine to a group of people interested in history. He
            > had a photo of a flat ivory object shaped like a boomerang that he
            > had identified as a "birthing wand." He also showed a three legged
            > stool he indicated may have been used by midwives during
            > childbirth. I went to him after the lecture and told him I thought
            > it was a throwstick. I had spent some time memorizing some of the
            > art at the Beni Hasan tombs in Middle Egypt from the early second
            > millenium.
            >
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_(hieroglyph)
            >
            > The professor was able to show a slide of some petrie dish cultures
            > on agar showing that myrhh was an antiobiotic and inhibited the
            > growth of bacteria. He indicated the Egyptians may have known about
            > its anitbiotic properties and gave evidence for AE trade with
            > Eastern Africa and India. A check of articles about the use of
            > myrhh as an antibiotic in ancient Egypt in google.com revealed more
            > proponents of the theory myrhh was used as an antiobiotic and also
            > to embalm mummies in ancient Egypt.
            >
            > David Q. Hall
            > dqhall59@...
            >
            >
            >
            > --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Brian Colless <briancolless@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Brian Colless <briancolless@...>
            > Subject: [ANE-2] Boomerangs in ANE
            > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 12:42 AM
            >
            > It is time I responded (favourably) to this.
            >
            > Whenever I encounter boomerang-deniers in connection with the origin
            > of the letter G (gaml 'throwstick' ; not camel, as taught in Hebew
            > school!) my gentle retort is, as I said in my earlier trumpet vs bugle
            > message (31 Jan 2009):
            >
            > "I remember seeing Tutankhamon' s missiles on show in the Cairo
            > Museum,
            > with examples of Australian boomerangs for comparison; the difference
            > was that his are made of ivory."
            >
            > I also have a big picture book of *Wonders of Tutankhamun* (Crown,
            > 1978). It turns out to be the same source that David has named:
            >
            > > A throw stick was found in King Tut's tomb:
            > >
            > > http://www.touregyp t.net/museum/ boomerangpage. htm
            > >
            >
            > Actually, there was one ivory boomerang in his tomb, and some wooden
            > ones.
            > That source says that throw sticks and boomerangs were found in the
            > Annex of the tomb.
            > What is the difference?
            > Not all Australian boomerangs are 'returning' missiles, though
            > 'boomerang' implies recoiling in English usage.
            >
            > When thinking about the gamlu (Krummholz, Bumerang, von Soden; bent
            > stick, throwing-stick, Concise D) my mind plays with g-m-l as
            > connoting completion and repayment, hence the returning aspect. Is
            > this a silly idea that needs to be cleaned out of my head?
            >
            > Do the bentness and curving notions come from the boomerang and are
            > then applied to the camel? And the sickle (maggalu)?
            >
            > I note that the throw-stick was used in all periods in ancient Egypt.
            > And its hieroglyph ( T 14) is a determinative for 'throw-stick' from
            > a root meaning 'throw') is also a club (Gardiner says) as det. of
            > foreign peoples.
            >
            > What goes round comes round. Have you seen the French movie where a
            > businessman is playing with his boomerangs en plein air? He launches
            > one, then answers his phone, and .......
            >
            > Brian Colless
            > Massey University, NZ
            >
            > On 2/02/2009, at 3:33 AM, David Hall wrote:
            >
            > > Throw sticks were used for hunting birds in ancient Egypt. The
            > > hunter stood atop a papyrus skiff and tried to knock down a duck or
            > > goose:
            > >
            > > http://i-cias. com/egypt/ photos/beni_ hassan01. jpg
            > >
            > > A throw stick was found in King Tut's tomb:
            > >
            > > http://www.touregyp t.net/museum/ boomerangpage. htm
            > >
            > > David Q. Hall
            > > dqhall59@yahoo. com
            > >
            > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Andrés Piquer Otero <erewan@terra. es> wrote:
            > >
            > > From: Andrés Piquer Otero <erewan@terra. es>
            > > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Wikipedia, the Boomerang, staff slings
            > > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
            > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 1:25 PM
            > >
            > > Clark Whelton wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I'm not sure that throw sticks, such as boomerangs, were used as
            > > > weapons or for hunting in the ANE.
            > > >
            > > > Clark Whelton
            > > > New York
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > Off the head, I recall O. Keel's "The Iconography of the Ancient
            > Near
            > > East" including a number of ANE pictorial renderings with weapons
            > that
            > > the author (or the academic sources he cites) interpret as "throwing
            > > sticks", whatever that instrument is.
            > >
            > > Andrés Piquer Otero
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Trudy Kawami
            Are you talking about the Horus on the obverse? He holds a tether to the nose of the Delta rebel. Is the throw-stick ever shown in a combat rather than
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 9, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Are you talking about the Horus on the obverse? He holds a tether to the
              nose of the Delta rebel. Is the throw-stick ever shown in a "combat"
              rather than hunting scene (usually the fowling in the marshes motif)?

              Just curious.

              Trudy Kawami



              ________________________________

              From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Brian Colless
              Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:48 PM
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Boomerangs in ANE, AE (Ancient Egypt) trade etc.



              Yes, I went to
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_
              <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_> (hieroglyph)
              (but I had to do a search to get through to it, as the bit in round
              brackets did not register, did not light up in blue)

              The word ga, 'throw-stick' is offered in a little box; interesting;
              It was already saying G before it was borrowed for the proto-alphabet?

              One surprise for me was on the Narmer Palette (which I have studied
              very closely in the past): the Horus Hawk is holding one; the King is
              wielding a 'donger' (club) to smash skulls.

              The alleged 'birthing wand' is a puzzle to me.

              Brian Colless
              Massey U, NZ




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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Brian Colless
              ... You are right, Trudy. I have always seen it as cord, until this idea was put into my head yesterday. Once again I have been prompted to put my own little
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 11, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                On 10/02/2009, at 5:31 AM, Trudy Kawami wrote:
                > Are you talking about the Horus on the obverse? He holds a tether to
                > the
                > nose of the Delta rebel.
                >

                You are right, Trudy.
                I have always seen it as cord, until this idea was put into my head
                yesterday.

                Once again I have been prompted to put my own little piece about the
                palette on the internet, in the ancient Egypt section of

                http://collesseum.googlepages.com/

                It ends thus (with an idea that came into my head about MENES):

                Was Narmer the King Menes who (according to the priests of Memphis, as
                reported by the Greek historian Herodotos, 5th C. B.C.E.) was the
                first king of Egypt and the founder of Memphis.

                Here is a thought I have had: If we read the chisel sign in the name
                "catfish chisel" (nar mer) not as mer but as menh (menkh) "chisel",
                and note that the Greeks used to omit h (kh) in such foreign (Hebrew)
                names as Menahem (Greek Menaem) and Nehemyah (Greek Neemia), then
                Greek Menes could be Egyptian Menkh, and this palette could be the
                record of the founding of the First Dynasty of United Egypt.

                However, it should be noted that there is another candidate with a
                claim to be the legendary King Menes. An ivory label found at Naqada
                (near Thebes) has a sign men beside the name 'Aha, thought to be the
                successor of Narmer. No tomb has been found for King Narmer at Saqqara
                (the royal burial place near Memphis) ; the oldest-known tomb there
                belongs to 'Aha. Was Narmer only the forerunner of 'Aha, and 'Aha the
                builder of Memphis and the founder of the First Dynasty (around 3000
                B.C.E.)?

                http://collesseum.googlepages.com/narmer

                Your other question:
                Is the throw-stick ever shown in a "combat" rather than hunting scene
                (usually the fowling in the marshes motif)?

                I don't know (but apparently not), and I think the Australian
                boomerang was used for hunting animals for food, and not for fighting.

                Brian Colless
                Massey U, NZ
                > Just curious.
                >
                > Trudy Kawami
                >
                (Kawami: Polynesian? Japanese? Hawaiian-Japanese?)
                >
                > ______________________________
                > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                > Of
                > Brian Colless
                > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:48 PM
                > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Boomerangs in ANE, AE (Ancient Egypt) trade etc.
                >
                > Yes, I went to
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_
                > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_> (hieroglyph)
                > (but I had to do a search to get through to it, as the bit in round
                > brackets did not register, did not light up in blue)
                >
                > The word ga, 'throw-stick' is offered in a little box; interesting;
                > It was already saying G before it was borrowed for the proto-alphabet?
                >
                > One surprise for me was on the Narmer Palette (which I have studied
                > very closely in the past): the Horus Hawk is holding one; the King is
                > wielding a 'donger' (club) to smash skulls.
                >
                > The alleged 'birthing wand' is a puzzle to me.
                >
                > Brian Colless
                > Massey U, NZ
                >
                >
                > ,___



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Doug Weller
                Hi Brian, High resolution photos of the Narmer palette here (a link from the Wikipedia article)
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 11, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Brian,

                  High resolution photos of the Narmer palette here (a link from the
                  Wikipedia article)
                  http://xoomer.virgilio.it/francescoraf/hesyra/palettes/narmerp.htm

                  And the Wikipedia article now claims that

                  In the third register at the bottom of the palette we have a king
                  named PPP (Pepy) with a bull known as Montu commonly used in the kings
                  titulary [16] building a city with the power of Montu. [Based it says on p.72 of Gardiner's Egyptian Grammar.

                  DOug


                  Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 12:11:42 PM, you wrote:


                  > On 10/02/2009, at 5:31 AM, Trudy Kawami wrote:
                  >> Are you talking about the Horus on the obverse? He holds a tether to
                  >> the
                  >> nose of the Delta rebel.
                  >>

                  > You are right, Trudy.
                  > I have always seen it as cord, until this idea was put into my head
                  > yesterday.

                  > Once again I have been prompted to put my own little piece about the
                  > palette on the internet, in the ancient Egypt section of

                  > http://collesseum.googlepages.com/

                  > It ends thus (with an idea that came into my head about MENES):

                  > Was Narmer the King Menes who (according to the priests of Memphis, as
                  > reported by the Greek historian Herodotos, 5th C. B.C.E.) was the
                  > first king of Egypt and the founder of Memphis.

                  > Here is a thought I have had: If we read the chisel sign in the name
                  > "catfish chisel" (nar mer) not as mer but as menh (menkh) "chisel",
                  > and note that the Greeks used to omit h (kh) in such foreign (Hebrew)
                  > names as Menahem (Greek Menaem) and Nehemyah (Greek Neemia), then
                  > Greek Menes could be Egyptian Menkh, and this palette could be the
                  > record of the founding of the First Dynasty of United Egypt.

                  > However, it should be noted that there is another candidate with a
                  > claim to be the legendary King Menes. An ivory label found at Naqada
                  > (near Thebes) has a sign men beside the name 'Aha, thought to be the
                  > successor of Narmer. No tomb has been found for King Narmer at Saqqara
                  > (the royal burial place near Memphis) ; the oldest-known tomb there
                  > belongs to 'Aha. Was Narmer only the forerunner of 'Aha, and 'Aha the
                  > builder of Memphis and the founder of the First Dynasty (around 3000
                  > B.C.E.)?

                  > http://collesseum.googlepages.com/narmer

                  > Your other question:
                  > Is the throw-stick ever shown in a "combat" rather than hunting scene
                  > (usually the fowling in the marshes motif)?

                  > I don't know (but apparently not), and I think the Australian
                  > boomerang was used for hunting animals for food, and not for fighting.

                  > Brian Colless
                  > Massey U, NZ
                  >> Just curious.
                  >>
                  >> Trudy Kawami
                  >>
                  > (Kawami: Polynesian? Japanese? Hawaiian-Japanese?)
                  >>
                  >> ______________________________
                  >> From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  >> Of
                  >> Brian Colless
                  >> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:48 PM
                  >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Boomerangs in ANE, AE (Ancient Egypt) trade etc.
                  >>
                  >> Yes, I went to
                  >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_
                  >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw_stick_> (hieroglyph)
                  >> (but I had to do a search to get through to it, as the bit in round
                  >> brackets did not register, did not light up in blue)
                  >>
                  >> The word ga, 'throw-stick' is offered in a little box; interesting;
                  >> It was already saying G before it was borrowed for the proto-alphabet?
                  >>
                  >> One surprise for me was on the Narmer Palette (which I have studied
                  >> very closely in the past): the Horus Hawk is holding one; the King is
                  >> wielding a 'donger' (club) to smash skulls.
                  >>
                  >> The alleged 'birthing wand' is a puzzle to me.
                  >>
                  >> Brian Colless
                  >> Massey U, NZ
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ,___



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                  Doug Weller Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
                  Director and Moderator The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
                  Doug's Skeptical Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
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