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Re: [ANE-2] Re: more on the ivory pomegranate

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  • David Hall
    From what I have read the inscription on the pomegranate was deepened or cleaned out with an iron tool.  Seems like a stupid error to alter or create an
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 30, 2008
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      From what I have read the inscription on the pomegranate was deepened or cleaned out with an iron tool.  Seems like a stupid error to alter or create an inscription on an antique item.  Remember people were able to look at Golan's pieces and declare they were ancient.  They were abraded, and chemically altered such as occured over time or under the right conditions created in a lab.  For a sum of money one may buy a witness to give a false opinion, the world is full of people with false ideas, some of them have degrees.  If the police had not caught Golan with forged relics and a forgery lab, the case would have been more difficult to solve.  People were right to oppose the self provlaimed experts, the false prophets of historical authenticity, even when the case led to very wealthy anitquities dealers and a magazine publisher trying to cover his statements.
       
      David Q. Hall
      dqhall59@...
       
       
      David Q. Hall      

      --- On Tue, 12/30/08, arenmaeir <maeira@...> wrote:

      From: arenmaeir <maeira@...>
      Subject: [ANE-2] Re: more on the ivory pomegranate
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 1:04 PM






      Ever think about the possibility that those who enabled the
      pomegranate to be "discovered" in Jerusalem did it so as to raise the
      price?

      Aren

      --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "lmlkes" <lmlkes@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dr. Maeir, You are going at the story backwards. Like many things
      > written, such as there was a "ring of forgers," this is inaccurate.
      > The Ivory Pomegranate was discovered by Dr. Andre Lemaire in 1979
      in
      > a Jerusalem antiquities shop. It was already completed. Dr. Lemaire
      > published the Ivory Pomegranate. The patinae was already made and
      > according to him is ancient when You examine it under the
      microscope.
      > No one was working from a $550,000 pile of money. This amount was
      > paid years later by the Israel Museum in late spring of 1988, after
      > Dr. Nahman Avigad flew to Zurich and authenticated the Ivory
      > Pomegranate. I Thank You For Your Time.
      > With Much Gratitude,
      > Sincerely Yours,
      > Michael Welch
      > Deltona, Florida
      >
      > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "arenmaeir" <maeira@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Jack,
      > > kein Problem...
      > >
      > > 1) Ivory is no problem - that can be found at excavations and in
      > > antiquity stores.
      > >
      > > 2) Patina - with $500,000 one could find someone who would know
      how
      > > to make patina - or better, don't make it - just claim that there
      > is.
      > >
      > > 3) Inscribe it? What's the problem? Get the proper materials (not
      > > modern) to make the incisions, and inscribe according to any
      > standard
      > > table of relevant letter forms.
      > >
      > > So - will you send the half million so I can start working on
      them?
      > > :-)
      > >
      > > Aren
      > >
      > > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "Jack Kilmon" <jkilmon@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Where will you get the ivory? How will you tool it? How will
      > you
      > > patina
      > > > it? How will you inscribe it?
      > > >
      > > > Jack
      > > >
      > > > Jack Kilmon
      > > > San Antonio, TX
      > >
      >


















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    • lmlkes
      Dear Dr. Maeir, Sure, the hope of anybody selling their antiquities in Jerusalem is to make money. It sold for $3,000. I Wish You The Best Of Everything, and I
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 30, 2008
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        Dear Dr. Maeir, Sure, the hope of anybody selling their antiquities in
        Jerusalem is to make money. It sold for $3,000. I Wish You The Best Of
        Everything, and I Thank You For Your Time.
        With Much Gratitude,
        Sincerely Yours,
        Michael Welch
        Deltona, Florida

        --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "arenmaeir" <maeira@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ever think about the possibility that those who enabled the
        > pomegranate to be "discovered" in Jerusalem did it so as to raise the
        > price?
        >
        > Aren
      • lmlkes
        Dear Dr. West, Since this Ivory Pomegranate sold for $3,000 in Jerusalem, I do not see any great amount of effort put into this particular object. I Thank You
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 30, 2008
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          Dear Dr. West, Since this Ivory Pomegranate sold for $3,000 in
          Jerusalem, I do not see any great amount of effort put into this
          particular object. I Thank You For Your Time, and I Wish You The Very
          Best Of Everything.
          With Much Gratitude,
          Sincerely Yours,
          Michael Welch
          Deltona, Florida

          --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Jim West <jwest@...> wrote:
          >
          > Aren's point, which you seem to have missed, is that anyone with the
          > funds could do the same and pass off the artifact as authentic.
        • lmlkes
          Dear Drs. Maeir and West, I wrote each of You a brief answer last evening when I returned home. But like I have said before, I have an old Windows 98 computer
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 31, 2008
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            Dear Drs. Maeir and West, I wrote each of You a brief answer last
            evening when I returned home. But like I have said before, I have an
            old Windows 98 computer and some things get lost. I will try again.
            First, let me say that I do not see any conspiracy involved with the
            Ivory Pomegranate. It was discovered by Dr. Lemaire and sold in
            Jerusalem for $3,000. It took years for the price to get to $550,000.
            There was nothing unusual about the process, if you compare it to any
            other antiquity sold today. A small genuine artifact was bought for a
            reasonable price of $3,000. Then as its popularity increased, its
            value increased. This was the process. I still do not see a lot of
            effort going into making the Ivory Pomegranate. It was found already
            made by Dr. Lemaire in 1979. I Do Want To Wish Both Of You A Great
            2009. I Thank You Both For Your Time.
            With Much Gratitude,
            Sincerely Yours,
            Michael Welch
            Deltona, Florida


            --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Jim West <jwest@...> wrote:
            >
            > Aren's point, which you seem to have missed, is that anyone with
            the
            > funds could do the same and pass off the artifact as authentic.
          • Niels Peter Lemche
            On behalf of the moderators, This line is from now closed. If people ask why, a view on this mornings many mails will tell you why. Time is now 0800 European
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 1, 2009
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              On behalf of the moderators,

              This line is from now closed. If people ask why, a view on this mornings
              many mails will tell you why.

              Time is now 0800 European Alpha time.

              Niels Peter Lemche
            • victor
              Thank you merciful NPL! Prof. Victor Avigdor Hurowitz Dept. of Bible, Archaeology and ANE Ben-Gurion University Beer-Sheva, Israel _____ From:
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 1, 2009
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                Thank you merciful NPL!


                Prof. Victor Avigdor Hurowitz
                Dept. of Bible, Archaeology and ANE
                Ben-Gurion University
                Beer-Sheva, Israel

                _____

                From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                Niels Peter Lemche
                Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:03 AM
                To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: SV: [ANE-2] Re: more on the ivory pomegranate_ closed thread

                On behalf of the moderators,

                This line is from now closed. If people ask why, a view on this mornings
                many mails will tell you why.

                Time is now 0800 European Alpha time.

                Niels Peter Lemche



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