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Re: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy

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  • Joe Zias
    There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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      There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other places east. Tim White from the U of Calif Berkley was one of the head investigators.

      Joe Zias www.joezias.com
      Anthropology/Paleopathology

      Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
      Jerusalem, Israel

      --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...> wrote:
      From: Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
      Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 11:36 PM











      Dear list,



      I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

      story):



      About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

      one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

      Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

      against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

      unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

      to locate the original text.



      What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

      cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

      read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

      Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



      Anna Johnson

      ************ ******

      S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

      à faire de nous des héros,

      ils sauront bientôt que nos balles

      sont pour nos propres généraux.

      - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rafal Kolinski
      Dear Will Dilbeck,   NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel s book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
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        Dear Will Dilbeck,
         
        NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel's book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection of letters on political subjects published mainly in ARM 26 and 27, including some texts from earlier volumes of ARM. The rest of the published texts (ca. 7 500 tablets) is accesible only in French - or Akkadian)
         
        As for Nuzi, I don't know any collection of texts. As T. Thompson mentioned, there is a number of papers by Speiser and hundreds of papers by other scholars dealing with one or moretexts. Some subjects have been treated by some scholars on occasion of the PhD projects (mainly on Brandeis University), but these theses are usually not published. A good starting point is: Studies on the Civilization and Culture of Nuzi and the Hurrians - a series of nearly 20 volumes published by CDL Press in Bethesda, Maryland, since 1979.
         
        Best regards and good luck
         
        Rafal Kolinski
        Institute of Prehistory
        Adam Mickiewcz University  

        --- On Fri, 31/10/08, Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...> wrote:

        From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...>
        Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts
        To: ane-2@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 2:49 AM







        Hello,
        I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
        Will Dilbeck
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
        Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
        http://clk.atdmt com/MRT/go/ msnnkwxp10200931 85mrt/direct/ 01/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • E. Adams
        ... If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?) which have E LaRoche s original numbered text groups and a not very up to date
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
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          --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
          wrote:
          >
          >About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
          > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
          > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
          > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
          > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am
          >unable to locate the original text.
          >
          > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
          > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection
          >we read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than
          >to Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
          >
          > Anna Johnson
          > ******************
          >

          If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?)
          which have E LaRoche's original numbered text groups and a not very
          up to date Bibliography, I think CTH 17 is called The Cannibals'
          Text. I'm not sure the exact dating of this text is agreed on,
          nor whether it is literay or a fragment of an Old Hittite king's
          annals ( usually taken to be Hattusilis I because of the occurrence
          of someone named Zukrasi in said document as well as in Hattusilis'
          account concerning events on his campaign to Aleppo). In any case
          the cannibals, who seem to be Hittite allies in that they share a
          common enemy, eat someone's mother, not the whole family
          of a rebel. That sounds a little like the events in Sugziya in which
          the family of a member of the royal family was murdered in a text
          discussed by W. Helck -- but I don't remember cannibalism being
          mentioned in this one. Perhaps one of our eminent Hittologists
          has contacted you off list about this. If so, maybe you could
          enlighten the rest of us on this subject.

          I am away from home or I could give you better bibliographical
          suggestions, but what I have on this laptop are:

          Soysal, Oðuz (1999). "Beiträge zur althethitischen Geschichte (I):
          Erganzende Bemerkungun zur Puhanu-Chronik und zum Menschenfresser-
          Text," in Hethitica XIV, (BCILL 100), p. 109-145.

          If I am not mistaken there is another article on the Cannibals/
          MenschenFresser text in the same volume by a woman whose name escapes
          me -this one in English, but more superficial, if I recall correctly.
          Perhaps someone else has this volume at home and can enlighten us.

          The Helck article: Helck, W. (1984). "Die Sukzija-Episode im Dekret
          des Telepinus," in Welt des Orient (WO) 15.

          Hope this helps,
          E. Adams

          PS ANE archive managers: Why on earth is this topic subsumed under
          the Mari and Nuzi texts heading?
        • Edrey, Meir
          there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world: Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
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            there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:

            Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.

            M. Edrey
            ________________________________
            From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon [sikozujohnson@...]
            Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy


            Dear list,

            I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
            story):

            About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
            one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
            Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
            against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
            unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
            to locate the original text.

            What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
            cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
            read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
            Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

            Anna Johnson
            ******************
            S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
            à faire de nous des héros,
            ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
            sont pour nos propres généraux.
            - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
          • cejo@uchicago.edu
            Probably better to consult the published version: Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991 or the more
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
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              Probably better to consult the published version:
              Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991

              or the more recent:

              Bonnechere, Pierre Le sacrifice humain en Grèce ancienne. Athènes: Centre International d'Étude
              de la Religion Grecque Antique; Liège, 1994 ( Kernos Supplément 3)

              -Chuck Jones-

              ---- Original message ----
              >Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:57:36 +0100
              >From: "Edrey, Meir" <edrey@...-mainz.de>
              >Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
              >To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
              >
              > there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:
              >
              > Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
              > Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.
              >
              > M. Edrey
              > ________________________________
              > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon
              > [sikozujohnson@...]
              > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
              >
              > Dear list,
              >
              > I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
              > story):
              >
              > About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
              > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
              > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
              > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
              > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
              > to locate the original text.
              >
              > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
              > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
              > read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
              > Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
              >
              > Anna Johnson
              > ******************
              > S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
              > à faire de nous des héros,
              > ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
              > sont pour nos propres généraux.
              > - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
              >
              >
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