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Re: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy

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  • Joe Zias
    There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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      There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other places east. Tim White from the U of Calif Berkley was one of the head investigators.

      Joe Zias www.joezias.com
      Anthropology/Paleopathology

      Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
      Jerusalem, Israel

      --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...> wrote:
      From: Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
      Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 11:36 PM











      Dear list,



      I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

      story):



      About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

      one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

      Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

      against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

      unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

      to locate the original text.



      What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

      cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

      read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

      Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



      Anna Johnson

      ************ ******

      S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

      à faire de nous des héros,

      ils sauront bientôt que nos balles

      sont pour nos propres généraux.

      - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Joe Zias
      Whereas the OT references state that it was first carried out here many believed that it was  later exported to the New World by the first settlers There is
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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        Whereas the OT references state that it was first carried out here many
        believed that it was� later exported to the New World by the first
        settlers There is now direct physical evidence from pre-contact periods
        that it was a practiced there as well. Little independent invention vs
        those who believe in Thor Heyerdahl and others 'cultural diffusion'

        Joe

        Joe Zias www.joezias.com
        Anthropology/Paleopathology

        Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
        Jerusalem, Israel

        --- On Sun, 11/2/08, victor <victor@...> wrote:
        From: victor <victor@...>
        Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 2:31 AM











        Dear Anna,



        I can�t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by

        Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he discusses

        various documents in which people claim, supposedly that they have been

        reduced to cannibalism when under siege. I think he views such references as

        hyperbole. There are also literary references in the Bible such as in the

        curses in Deuteronomy 28:53-57, the Book of Lamentations 2:20; 4:10, and the

        account of the siege of Samaria in 2 Kings 6:28. You can certainly find

        further references in the commentaries to these verses.



        Victor Hurowitz



        BGU



        _____



        From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of

        Nahed Johnspoon

        Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:36 AM

        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

        Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy



        Dear list,



        I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

        story):



        About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

        one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

        Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

        against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

        unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

        to locate the original text.



        What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

        cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

        read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

        Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



        Anna Johnson

        ************ ******

        S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

        � faire de nous des h�ros,

        ils sauront bient�t que nos balles

        sont pour nos propres g�n�raux.

        - Eug�ne Pottier l'internationale (1870)



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rafal Kolinski
        Dear Will Dilbeck,   NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel s book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
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          Dear Will Dilbeck,
           
          NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel's book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection of letters on political subjects published mainly in ARM 26 and 27, including some texts from earlier volumes of ARM. The rest of the published texts (ca. 7 500 tablets) is accesible only in French - or Akkadian)
           
          As for Nuzi, I don't know any collection of texts. As T. Thompson mentioned, there is a number of papers by Speiser and hundreds of papers by other scholars dealing with one or moretexts. Some subjects have been treated by some scholars on occasion of the PhD projects (mainly on Brandeis University), but these theses are usually not published. A good starting point is: Studies on the Civilization and Culture of Nuzi and the Hurrians - a series of nearly 20 volumes published by CDL Press in Bethesda, Maryland, since 1979.
           
          Best regards and good luck
           
          Rafal Kolinski
          Institute of Prehistory
          Adam Mickiewcz University  

          --- On Fri, 31/10/08, Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...> wrote:

          From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...>
          Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts
          To: ane-2@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 2:49 AM







          Hello,
          I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
          Will Dilbeck
          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
          http://clk.atdmt com/MRT/go/ msnnkwxp10200931 85mrt/direct/ 01/

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • E. Adams
          ... If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?) which have E LaRoche s original numbered text groups and a not very up to date
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
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            --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
            > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
            > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
            > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
            > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am
            >unable to locate the original text.
            >
            > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
            > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection
            >we read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than
            >to Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
            >
            > Anna Johnson
            > ******************
            >

            If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?)
            which have E LaRoche's original numbered text groups and a not very
            up to date Bibliography, I think CTH 17 is called The Cannibals'
            Text. I'm not sure the exact dating of this text is agreed on,
            nor whether it is literay or a fragment of an Old Hittite king's
            annals ( usually taken to be Hattusilis I because of the occurrence
            of someone named Zukrasi in said document as well as in Hattusilis'
            account concerning events on his campaign to Aleppo). In any case
            the cannibals, who seem to be Hittite allies in that they share a
            common enemy, eat someone's mother, not the whole family
            of a rebel. That sounds a little like the events in Sugziya in which
            the family of a member of the royal family was murdered in a text
            discussed by W. Helck -- but I don't remember cannibalism being
            mentioned in this one. Perhaps one of our eminent Hittologists
            has contacted you off list about this. If so, maybe you could
            enlighten the rest of us on this subject.

            I am away from home or I could give you better bibliographical
            suggestions, but what I have on this laptop are:

            Soysal, Oðuz (1999). "Beiträge zur althethitischen Geschichte (I):
            Erganzende Bemerkungun zur Puhanu-Chronik und zum Menschenfresser-
            Text," in Hethitica XIV, (BCILL 100), p. 109-145.

            If I am not mistaken there is another article on the Cannibals/
            MenschenFresser text in the same volume by a woman whose name escapes
            me -this one in English, but more superficial, if I recall correctly.
            Perhaps someone else has this volume at home and can enlighten us.

            The Helck article: Helck, W. (1984). "Die Sukzija-Episode im Dekret
            des Telepinus," in Welt des Orient (WO) 15.

            Hope this helps,
            E. Adams

            PS ANE archive managers: Why on earth is this topic subsumed under
            the Mari and Nuzi texts heading?
          • Edrey, Meir
            there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world: Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
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              there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:

              Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.

              M. Edrey
              ________________________________
              From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon [sikozujohnson@...]
              Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy


              Dear list,

              I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
              story):

              About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
              one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
              Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
              against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
              unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
              to locate the original text.

              What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
              cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
              read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
              Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

              Anna Johnson
              ******************
              S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
              à faire de nous des héros,
              ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
              sont pour nos propres généraux.
              - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
            • cejo@uchicago.edu
              Probably better to consult the published version: Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991 or the more
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
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                Probably better to consult the published version:
                Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991

                or the more recent:

                Bonnechere, Pierre Le sacrifice humain en Grèce ancienne. Athènes: Centre International d'Étude
                de la Religion Grecque Antique; Liège, 1994 ( Kernos Supplément 3)

                -Chuck Jones-

                ---- Original message ----
                >Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:57:36 +0100
                >From: "Edrey, Meir" <edrey@...-mainz.de>
                >Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                >To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                >
                > there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:
                >
                > Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
                > Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.
                >
                > M. Edrey
                > ________________________________
                > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon
                > [sikozujohnson@...]
                > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
                > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                >
                > Dear list,
                >
                > I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
                > story):
                >
                > About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
                > to locate the original text.
                >
                > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
                > read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
                > Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
                >
                > Anna Johnson
                > ******************
                > S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
                > à faire de nous des héros,
                > ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                > sont pour nos propres généraux.
                > - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
                >
                >
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