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Query on anthropophagy

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  • Nahed Johnspoon
    Dear list, I ve lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface story): About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and one
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
      Dear list,

      I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
      story):

      About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
      one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
      Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
      against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
      unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
      to locate the original text.

      What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
      cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
      read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
      Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

      Anna Johnson
      ******************
      S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
      à faire de nous des héros,
      ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
      sont pour nos propres généraux.
      - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
    • Joe Zias
      There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
        There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other places east. Tim White from the U of Calif Berkley was one of the head investigators.

        Joe Zias www.joezias.com
        Anthropology/Paleopathology

        Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
        Jerusalem, Israel

        --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...> wrote:
        From: Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
        Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 11:36 PM











        Dear list,



        I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

        story):



        About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

        one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

        Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

        against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

        unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

        to locate the original text.



        What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

        cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

        read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

        Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



        Anna Johnson

        ************ ******

        S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

        à faire de nous des héros,

        ils sauront bientôt que nos balles

        sont pour nos propres généraux.

        - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • victor
        Dear Anna, I can’t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
          Dear Anna,

          I can’t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by
          Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he discusses
          various documents in which people claim, supposedly that they have been
          reduced to cannibalism when under siege. I think he views such references as
          hyperbole. There are also literary references in the Bible such as in the
          curses in Deuteronomy 28:53-57, the Book of Lamentations 2:20; 4:10, and the
          account of the siege of Samaria in 2 Kings 6:28. You can certainly find
          further references in the commentaries to these verses.

          Victor Hurowitz

          BGU



          _____

          From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Nahed Johnspoon
          Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:36 AM
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy



          Dear list,

          I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
          story):

          About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
          one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
          Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
          against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
          unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
          to locate the original text.

          What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
          cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
          read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
          Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

          Anna Johnson
          ******************
          S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
          à faire de nous des héros,
          ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
          sont pour nos propres généraux.
          - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joe Zias
          Whereas the OT references state that it was first carried out here many believed that it was  later exported to the New World by the first settlers There is
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
            Whereas the OT references state that it was first carried out here many
            believed that it was� later exported to the New World by the first
            settlers There is now direct physical evidence from pre-contact periods
            that it was a practiced there as well. Little independent invention vs
            those who believe in Thor Heyerdahl and others 'cultural diffusion'

            Joe

            Joe Zias www.joezias.com
            Anthropology/Paleopathology

            Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
            Jerusalem, Israel

            --- On Sun, 11/2/08, victor <victor@...> wrote:
            From: victor <victor@...>
            Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 2:31 AM











            Dear Anna,



            I can�t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by

            Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he discusses

            various documents in which people claim, supposedly that they have been

            reduced to cannibalism when under siege. I think he views such references as

            hyperbole. There are also literary references in the Bible such as in the

            curses in Deuteronomy 28:53-57, the Book of Lamentations 2:20; 4:10, and the

            account of the siege of Samaria in 2 Kings 6:28. You can certainly find

            further references in the commentaries to these verses.



            Victor Hurowitz



            BGU



            _____



            From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of

            Nahed Johnspoon

            Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:36 AM

            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

            Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy



            Dear list,



            I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

            story):



            About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

            one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

            Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

            against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

            unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

            to locate the original text.



            What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

            cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

            read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

            Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



            Anna Johnson

            ************ ******

            S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

            � faire de nous des h�ros,

            ils sauront bient�t que nos balles

            sont pour nos propres g�n�raux.

            - Eug�ne Pottier l'internationale (1870)



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
            The Near Eastern references to anthropophagy are in M. Weinfeld, Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomic School (Oxford, 1972 [reprinted 1983]), 126-129 ; prominent
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
              The Near Eastern references to anthropophagy are in M. Weinfeld, Deuteronomy
              and the Deuteronomic School (Oxford, 1972 [reprinted 1983]), 126-129 ;
              prominent amid them is Atrahasis, S v 22-26 (Lambert & Millard's,
              Atra-hasis. The Babylonian Story of the Flood, 112-113 ; S. Dalley, Myths
              from Mesopotamia, 26). See also Y. Hamilakis, "Eating the Dead : Mortuary
              Feasting and the Politics of Memory in the Aegean Bronze Age Societies", in
              K. Branigan (ed.), Cemetary and Society in the Aegean Bronze Age (Sheffield,
              Sheffield Academic Press, 1998), 115-132, and, for a Greek point of view, H.
              S. Versnel, Inconsistencies in Greek and Roman Religion (Leiden, 1990),
              107-110.

              J.-F. Nardelli
              Université de Provence
            • Rafal Kolinski
              Dear Will Dilbeck,   NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel s book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
                Dear Will Dilbeck,
                 
                NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel's book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection of letters on political subjects published mainly in ARM 26 and 27, including some texts from earlier volumes of ARM. The rest of the published texts (ca. 7 500 tablets) is accesible only in French - or Akkadian)
                 
                As for Nuzi, I don't know any collection of texts. As T. Thompson mentioned, there is a number of papers by Speiser and hundreds of papers by other scholars dealing with one or moretexts. Some subjects have been treated by some scholars on occasion of the PhD projects (mainly on Brandeis University), but these theses are usually not published. A good starting point is: Studies on the Civilization and Culture of Nuzi and the Hurrians - a series of nearly 20 volumes published by CDL Press in Bethesda, Maryland, since 1979.
                 
                Best regards and good luck
                 
                Rafal Kolinski
                Institute of Prehistory
                Adam Mickiewcz University  

                --- On Fri, 31/10/08, Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...> wrote:

                From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...>
                Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts
                To: ane-2@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 2:49 AM







                Hello,
                I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
                Will Dilbeck
                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
                http://clk.atdmt com/MRT/go/ msnnkwxp10200931 85mrt/direct/ 01/

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • E. Adams
                ... If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?) which have E LaRoche s original numbered text groups and a not very up to date
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
                  --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                  > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                  > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                  > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                  > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am
                  >unable to locate the original text.
                  >
                  > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                  > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection
                  >we read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than
                  >to Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
                  >
                  > Anna Johnson
                  > ******************
                  >

                  If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?)
                  which have E LaRoche's original numbered text groups and a not very
                  up to date Bibliography, I think CTH 17 is called The Cannibals'
                  Text. I'm not sure the exact dating of this text is agreed on,
                  nor whether it is literay or a fragment of an Old Hittite king's
                  annals ( usually taken to be Hattusilis I because of the occurrence
                  of someone named Zukrasi in said document as well as in Hattusilis'
                  account concerning events on his campaign to Aleppo). In any case
                  the cannibals, who seem to be Hittite allies in that they share a
                  common enemy, eat someone's mother, not the whole family
                  of a rebel. That sounds a little like the events in Sugziya in which
                  the family of a member of the royal family was murdered in a text
                  discussed by W. Helck -- but I don't remember cannibalism being
                  mentioned in this one. Perhaps one of our eminent Hittologists
                  has contacted you off list about this. If so, maybe you could
                  enlighten the rest of us on this subject.

                  I am away from home or I could give you better bibliographical
                  suggestions, but what I have on this laptop are:

                  Soysal, Oðuz (1999). "Beiträge zur althethitischen Geschichte (I):
                  Erganzende Bemerkungun zur Puhanu-Chronik und zum Menschenfresser-
                  Text," in Hethitica XIV, (BCILL 100), p. 109-145.

                  If I am not mistaken there is another article on the Cannibals/
                  MenschenFresser text in the same volume by a woman whose name escapes
                  me -this one in English, but more superficial, if I recall correctly.
                  Perhaps someone else has this volume at home and can enlighten us.

                  The Helck article: Helck, W. (1984). "Die Sukzija-Episode im Dekret
                  des Telepinus," in Welt des Orient (WO) 15.

                  Hope this helps,
                  E. Adams

                  PS ANE archive managers: Why on earth is this topic subsumed under
                  the Mari and Nuzi texts heading?
                • Edrey, Meir
                  there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world: Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
                    there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:

                    Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.

                    M. Edrey
                    ________________________________
                    From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon [sikozujohnson@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy


                    Dear list,

                    I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
                    story):

                    About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                    one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                    Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                    against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                    unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
                    to locate the original text.

                    What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                    cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
                    read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
                    Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

                    Anna Johnson
                    ******************
                    S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
                    à faire de nous des héros,
                    ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                    sont pour nos propres généraux.
                    - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
                  • cejo@uchicago.edu
                    Probably better to consult the published version: Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991 or the more
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
                      Probably better to consult the published version:
                      Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991

                      or the more recent:

                      Bonnechere, Pierre Le sacrifice humain en Grèce ancienne. Athènes: Centre International d'Étude
                      de la Religion Grecque Antique; Liège, 1994 ( Kernos Supplément 3)

                      -Chuck Jones-

                      ---- Original message ----
                      >Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:57:36 +0100
                      >From: "Edrey, Meir" <edrey@...-mainz.de>
                      >Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                      >To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                      >
                      > there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:
                      >
                      > Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
                      > Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.
                      >
                      > M. Edrey
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon
                      > [sikozujohnson@...]
                      > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
                      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                      >
                      > Dear list,
                      >
                      > I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
                      > story):
                      >
                      > About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                      > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                      > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                      > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                      > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
                      > to locate the original text.
                      >
                      > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                      > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
                      > read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
                      > Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
                      >
                      > Anna Johnson
                      > ******************
                      > S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
                      > à faire de nous des héros,
                      > ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                      > sont pour nos propres généraux.
                      > - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
                      >
                      >
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