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Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

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  • Jack Kilmon
    There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of variancein
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
      There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
      hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
      variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
      particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
      see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptions, all
      done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.

      The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
      competent analyst.

      My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
      patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
      an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
      the box fell. . That simple.

      Jack Kilmon


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@...>
      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


      > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
      > written by two different hands.
      >
      > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
      > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
      > patina.
      >
      > http://www.davidrowan.com/2005/05/is-oded-golan-behind-biblical.html
      >
      > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
      > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
      > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
      > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
      > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
      >
      > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
      > become tarnished and appear old.
      >
      > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
      > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact
      > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
      > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
      > been buried for years.
      >
      >
      > Sincerely:
      >
      > David Q. Hall
      > dqhall59@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
      > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
      > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
      > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
      >
      >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
      >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
      >> updated August 23, 2008:
      >>
      >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
      >>
      >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
      >> guilt.
      >>
      >> David Q. Hall
      >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
      >>
      >
      > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
      > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
      > the
      > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
      > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
      > the
      > box is entirely genuine.
      >
      > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
      >
      > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
      > artifacts,
      > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
      > pomegranate is one of them either.
      >
      > Jack
      >
      > Jack Kilmon
      > San Antonio, TX
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • David Hall
      Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to be the
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
        Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to be the bone box of Jesus of Nazareth.  It was suggested by some that this was proof of the book "The De Vinci Code."  The publisher was selling the De Vivci Code novel as fiction.  Not all were able to distinguish fact from fiction.  Hershel Shank's magazine "Biblical Archaeology Review" was promoting it as a genuine antiquity.  He also had published lead stories about the ivory pomegranate scepter that was on display in Washington D.C. during the 90's.  I cannot recall the exact measurements, only that it was a very small piece of ivory and also a lead story about the Jehoash tablet splattered with gold.  By that time Golan was rich and famous having claimed to have found the box Jesus bones were placed in and an inscription from Solomon's temple.  Since then he has been arrested with
        probable cause and is infamous throughout the world.  While many exalted the wicked the righteous were proven right.    
         
        David Q. Hall
         
         
         
         

        --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:

        From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM







        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
        To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
        Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
        Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial

        > The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
        > against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
        > updated August 23, 2008:
        >
        > http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
        >
        > One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
        > guilt.
        >
        > David Q. Hall
        > dqhall59@yahoo. com
        >

        To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
        concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in the
        latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
        simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription, the
        box is entirely genuine.

        http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp

        This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged artifacts,
        only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
        pomegranate is one of them either.

        Jack

        Jack Kilmon
        San Antonio, TX


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Hall
        I can only again cite the Haaretz article.   http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html   My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
          I can only again cite the Haaretz article.
           
          http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
           
          My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I have been known to have incorrect memory recall.  Was the James the brother of Jesus Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?
           
          I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe myself to be infallible.  Did you not have transcripts from the court proceedings?  Perhaps more will be revealed later.   
           
          David Q. Hall   
            
           
           
          David Q. Hall
           
           

          --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:

          From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM






          There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
          hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
          variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
          particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
          see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all
          done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.

          The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
          competent analyst.

          My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
          patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
          an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
          the box fell. . That simple.

          Jack Kilmon

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
          To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
          Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

          > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
          > written by two different hands.
          >
          > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
          > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
          > patina.
          >
          > http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html
          >
          > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
          > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
          > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
          > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
          > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
          >
          > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
          > become tarnished and appear old.
          >
          > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
          > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact
          > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
          > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
          > been buried for years.
          >
          >
          > Sincerely:
          >
          > David Q. Hall
          > dqhall59@yahoo. com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
          >
          > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
          > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
          > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
          > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
          > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
          > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
          > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
          >
          >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
          >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
          >> updated August 23, 2008:
          >>
          >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
          >>
          >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
          >> guilt.
          >>
          >> David Q. Hall
          >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
          >>
          >
          > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
          > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
          > the
          > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
          > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
          > the
          > box is entirely genuine.
          >
          > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
          >
          > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
          > artifacts,
          > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
          > pomegranate is one of them either.
          >
          > Jack
          >
          > Jack Kilmon
          > San Antonio, TX
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joseph I. Lauer
          David Q. Hall wrote that the Ha aretz article ( The art of authentic forgery by Nadav Shragai) was updated August 23, 2008 . However, the article at
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
            David Q. Hall wrote that the Ha'aretz article ("The art of authentic
            forgery" by Nadav Shragai) was "updated August 23, 2008".
            However, the article at http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
            notes "Last update - 23:08 14/04/2008", that is, at 11:08 p.m. on April 14,
            2008.
            Joseph I. Lauer
            Brooklyn, New York
          • Joe Zias
            The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop of Deutsch but was found sitting on the throne at Oded Golans residence where it was
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
              The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop
              of Deutsch but was found 'sitting on the throne' at Oded Golans
              residence where it was accidentally discovered by the IAA. For a photo
              of the 'throne' go to www.joezias.com and one can see it sitting there
              where it was found. According to the Egyptian who worked for Golan, the
              one outed by 60 minutes, he cleaned  it there as Golans dog was peeing
              on it' (Burleighs "Unholy Business p. 208) whereas Golan claimed that
              his mother had cleaned it. What I find absurd about this is SJ's remark
              when his doc. was shown here in Jrsm that we in the profession did not
              accept the ossuary as we were in fact showing an 'anti-Christian bias'
              and then the Egyptian reported that Golans dawg was peeing on it all
              the time. Anything for a buck and then they come out with the Talpiot
              tomb after accusing us of having a anti-Christian bias.

              Meanwhile the trial goes on....

              Joe


              Joe Zias www.joezias.com
              Anthropology/Paleopathology

              Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
              Jerusalem, Israel

              --- On Sat, 11/1/08, David Hall <dqhall59@...> wrote:
              From: David Hall <dqhall59@...>
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 6:00 PM











              I can only again cite the Haaretz article.

               

              http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html

               

              My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I have been known to have incorrect memory recall.  Was the James the brother of Jesus Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?

               

              I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe myself to be infallible.  Did you not have transcripts from the court proceedings?  Perhaps more will be revealed later.   

               

              David Q. Hall   

                

               

               

              David Q. Hall

               

               



              --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:



              From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

              Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM



              There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different

              hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of

              variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,

              particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I

              see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all

              done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.



              The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a

              competent analyst.



              My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient

              patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of

              an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands

              the box fell. . That simple.



              Jack Kilmon



              ----- Original Message -----

              From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>

              To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

              Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM

              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial



              > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was

              > written by two different hands.

              >

              > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a

              > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the

              > patina.

              >

              > http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html

              >

              > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object

              > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,

              > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to

              > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and

              > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.

              >

              > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will

              > become tarnished and appear old.

              >

              > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity

              > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact

              > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual

              > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had

              > been buried for years.

              >

              >

              > Sincerely:

              >

              > David Q. Hall

              > dqhall59@yahoo. com

              >

              >

              >

              >

              > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:

              >

              > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

              > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

              > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              > ----- Original Message -----

              > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>

              > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

              > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM

              > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial

              >

              >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence

              >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,

              >> updated August 23, 2008:

              >>

              >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html

              >>

              >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal

              >> guilt.

              >>

              >> David Q. Hall

              >> dqhall59@yahoo. com

              >>

              >

              > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is

              > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in

              > the

              > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that

              > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,

              > the

              > box is entirely genuine.

              >

              > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp

              >

              > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged

              > artifacts,

              > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the

              > pomegranate is one of them either.

              >

              > Jack

              >

              > Jack Kilmon

              > San Antonio, TX

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              > ------------ --------- --------- ------

              >

              > Yahoo! Groups Links

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jack Kilmon
              ... From: David Hall To: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial ... Except
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@...>
                To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:11 PM
                Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


                > Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an
                > existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to
                > be the bone box of Jesus of Nazareth.

                Except that there is no conclusive evidence for this and very competent
                paleographers, like Lemaire, disputeit AND there is ancient patina in the
                part being claimed was added a few years ago.



                > It was suggested by some that this was proof of the book "The De Vinci
                > Code." The publisher was selling the De Vivci Code novel as fiction. Not
                > all were able to distinguish fact from fiction.

                The Da Vinci code was the greatest hoax of the century. Pure nonsense sold
                as a "novel" with a knowing wink to the gullible.


                > Hershel Shank's magazine "Biblical Archaeology Review" was promoting it as
                > a genuine antiquity.

                It is a genuine atinquity. No one disputes that.


                >He also had published lead stories about the ivory pomegranate scepter that
                >was on display in Washington D.C. during the 90's.

                Yes, I remember. The pomegranate is also not conclusively a forgery.



                >I cannot recall the exact measurements, only that it was a very small piece
                >of ivory and also a lead story about the Jehoash tablet splattered with
                >gold. By that time Golan was rich and famous having claimed to have found
                >the box Jesus bones were placed in and an inscription from Solomon's
                >temple. Since then he has been arrested with
                > probable cause and is infamous throughout the world. While many exalted
                > the wicked the righteous were proven right.


                I think the pomegranate is authentic. The yod of BEYT definitely goes nto
                the break as does the right tip of the tov and the left tip is, IMO,
                malformed by the bulge which is an anomaly caused by its breakage, perhaps
                the scepter being smahed against a wall. That is a possible scenario, the
                point being it is not conclusively a forgery.

                I know that the leadership and members of the IAA are enraged by hoaxes,
                hustlers, hucksters, "Ark quests," either box or boat, the trade in
                authentic artifacts and, rightfully, forged artifacts. In many ways it is a
                political problem because very poor people desiring to feed their families,
                can practically dig in their back yards and find items that are marketable
                to dealers. Every once in a while someone will find an important artifact,
                accidentally or by digging. Then there are the industrial looters who can
                also find important artifacts and these find their way unprovenanced intothe
                black market or unprincipled dealers. And, of course, there are the
                forgers.

                I am not one who believes forgery has become so sophisticated to go
                undetected by competent analysts who would only take the trouble and expense
                to examine artifacts of import to begin with. I have no sympathy for
                tourists who purchase artifacts from other than unlicensed dealers. They
                can take home their forty dollar Herodian lamps that were fired in a kiln
                only yesterday. I am not smart enough to figure out a way to deal with the
                larger political picture or how to close down the forgers of the "big
                stuff." I just think the IAA with its over-zealotry is not the answer.

                In 2004 Hanan Eshel was summoned to meet an Arab who had found a "Dead Sea
                Scroll" and he was able to rescue it in time for $3,000.00 supplied by
                Bar-Ilan University. He turned it over to the IAA and someone was moronic
                enough to have him arrested and charged. That is when I lost all respect
                for the IAA and its methods.

                I don't know where the answers lie but Israel is a very small country with a
                very large resource in intellect....I could rattle them off from Avigad to
                Zias.

                I am but an amateur but not half bad as a Semitist and paleographer andnot
                easilt fooled by journalistic of magazine hype. I just do not think the
                problem is being addressed appropriately.

                Jack

                Jack Kilmon
                San Antonio, TX


                >
                > David Q. Hall
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                >
                >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                >> updated August 23, 2008:
                >>
                >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                >>
                >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                >> guilt.
                >>
                >> David Q. Hall
                >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                >>
                >
                > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
                > the
                > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
                > the
                > box is entirely genuine.
                >
                > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
                >
                > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
                > artifacts,
                > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                > pomegranate is one of them either.
                >
                > Jack
                >
                > Jack Kilmon
                > San Antonio, TX
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Jack Kilmon
                Joe, it s simple. No good science...no believable authentication or inauthentication can ever take place in a whirling maelstrom of hucksters and hustlers,
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                  Joe, it's simple. No good science...no believable authentication or
                  inauthentication can ever take place in a whirling maelstrom of hucksters
                  and hustlers, religious, political and scholarly agendas or journalistic
                  quests for publication dollars. This artifact, if genuine, will mean
                  nothing now. If "jimmied" will still mean nothing. They need to take the
                  durn thing and put it on the warehouse shelf and take the vast amount of
                  money being spent and give it to the various dig directors who need help.

                  Jack

                  Jack Kilmon
                  San Antonio, TX

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
                  To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                  Cc: "NinaNY" <ndbur@...>; "greenblatt" <greenbl@...>
                  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:40 AM
                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


                  > The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop
                  > of Deutsch but was found 'sitting on the throne' at Oded Golans
                  > residence where it was accidentally discovered by the IAA. For a photo
                  > of the 'throne' go to www.joezias.com and one can see it sitting there
                  > where it was found. According to the Egyptian who worked for Golan, the
                  > one outed by 60 minutes, he cleaned it there as Golans dog was peeing
                  > on it' (Burleighs "Unholy Business p. 208) whereas Golan claimed that
                  > his mother had cleaned it. What I find absurd about this is SJ's remark
                  > when his doc. was shown here in Jrsm that we in the profession did not
                  > accept the ossuary as we were in fact showing an 'anti-Christian bias'
                  > and then the Egyptian reported that Golans dawg was peeing on it all
                  > the time. Anything for a buck and then they come out with the Talpiot
                  > tomb after accusing us of having a anti-Christian bias.
                  >
                  > Meanwhile the trial goes on....
                  >
                  > Joe
                  >
                  >
                  > Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                  > Anthropology/Paleopathology
                  >
                  > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                  > Jerusalem, Israel
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, David Hall <dqhall59@...> wrote:
                  > From: David Hall <dqhall59@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                  > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 6:00 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
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                  >
                  > I can only again cite the Haaretz article.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time. I have been
                  > known to have incorrect memory recall. Was the James the brother of Jesus
                  > Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe
                  > myself to be infallible. Did you not have transcripts from the court
                  > proceedings? Perhaps more will be revealed later.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > David Q. Hall
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > David Q. Hall
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
                  >
                  > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                  >
                  > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
                  >
                  > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
                  >
                  > hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
                  >
                  > variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
                  >
                  > particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
                  >
                  > see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all
                  >
                  > done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
                  >
                  > competent analyst.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
                  >
                  > patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
                  >
                  > an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
                  >
                  > the box fell. . That simple.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Jack Kilmon
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  >
                  > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                  >
                  > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                  >
                  > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
                  >
                  > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >> The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
                  >
                  >> written by two different hands.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
                  >
                  >> fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
                  >
                  >> patina.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
                  >
                  >> is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
                  >
                  >> and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
                  >
                  >> prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
                  >
                  >> physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
                  >
                  >> become tarnished and appear old.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
                  >
                  >> of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the
                  >> exact
                  >
                  >> same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
                  >
                  >> smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
                  >
                  >> been buried for years.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> Sincerely:
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> David Q. Hall
                  >
                  >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
                  >
                  >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                  >
                  >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
                  >
                  >> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
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                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >
                  >> From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                  >
                  >> To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                  >
                  >> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                  >
                  >> Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                  >
                  >>> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                  >
                  >>> updated August 23, 2008:
                  >
                  >>>
                  >
                  >>> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                  >
                  >>>
                  >
                  >>> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                  >
                  >>> guilt.
                  >
                  >>>
                  >
                  >>> David Q. Hall
                  >
                  >>> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                  >
                  >>>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                  >
                  >> concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
                  >
                  >> the
                  >
                  >> latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                  >
                  >> simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
                  >
                  >> the
                  >
                  >> box is entirely genuine.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
                  >
                  >> artifacts,
                  >
                  >> only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                  >
                  >> pomegranate is one of them either.
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> Jack
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> Jack Kilmon
                  >
                  >> San Antonio, TX
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                  >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
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                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
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                  > ------------------------------------
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                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                • Joseph I. Lauer
                  The Jerusalem Post Online Edition has just released an article headlined Justice Ministry to decide on Jesus ossuary . It begins: The Justice Ministry has
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                    The Jerusalem Post Online Edition has just released an article headlined
                    "Justice Ministry to decide on 'Jesus ossuary'". It begins: "The Justice
                    Ministry has been given six months to decide how to proceed in the trial of
                    an antiquities dealer suspected of forging a purported reference to Jesus on
                    an ancient burial box and a stone tablet with biblical passages. Both items
                    were hailed as major archaeological finds but subsequently deemed clever
                    forgeries. The ministry has been forced to reevaluate the case after the
                    Jerusalem District Court judge in the case advised the prosecution to
                    reassess its position in the three-year-old trial because it failed to prove
                    that the key suspect, Tel Aviv antiquities collector Oded Golan, had indeed
                    faked the biblical-era artifacts."
                    The article may be read at
                    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1225199631832&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
                    or
                    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1225199631832
                    Joseph I. Lauer
                    Brooklyn, New York

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