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Re: SV: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts

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  • Rafal Kolinski
    Dear Will Dilbeck,   NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel s book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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      Dear Will Dilbeck,
       
      NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel's book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection of letters on political subjects published mainly in ARM 26 and 27, including some texts from earlier volumes of ARM.
       
      As for Nuzi, I don't know any collection of texts. As T. Thompson mentioned, there is a number of papers by Speiser and hundreds of papers by other scholars dealing with one or several texts. Some subjects have been treated by some scholars on occasion of the PhD projects (mainly on Brandeis University), but these theses are usually not published. A good starting point is: Studies on the Civilization and Culture of Nuzi and the Hurrians - a series of nearly 20 volumes published by CDL Press in Bethesda, Maryland, since 1979.
       
      Best regards and good luck
       
      Rafal Kolinski
      Institute of Prehistory
      Adam Mickiewcz University  
       


      --- On Sat, 1/11/08, Niels Peter Lemche <npl@...> wrote:

      From: Niels Peter Lemche <npl@...>
      Subject: SV: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, 1 November, 2008, 8:36 AM






      For French speaking peeople: Jean-Marie Durand, Les documents épistolaires du palais de Mari, I-III, Littératures anciennes du Proche-Orient, 16-18, Pris, Les Éditions du cerf, 1998-2002, must be about eeverything in translation until ARM XIII. If people do not read French and are interested in the subject: Learn French!

      Niels Peter Lemche

      -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
      Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] På vegne af Peter T. Daniels
      Sendt: den 31 oktober 2008 14:20
      Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
      Emne: Re: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts

      There's Wolfgang Heimpel's enormous Letters to the King of Mari: A New Translation with Historical Introduction, Notes, and Commentary (Eisenbra uns, 2003).

      Jack Sasson frequently lectures on social conditions at Mari, though I don't know how much he has yet published on the topic.--
      Peter T. Daniels grammatim@verizon. net

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@msn. com>
      To: ane-2@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:49:21 PM
      Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts

      Hello,
      I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
      Will Dilbeck

















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nahed Johnspoon
      Dear list, I ve lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface story): About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and one
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
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        Dear list,

        I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
        story):

        About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
        one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
        Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
        against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
        unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
        to locate the original text.

        What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
        cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
        read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
        Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

        Anna Johnson
        ******************
        S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
        à faire de nous des héros,
        ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
        sont pour nos propres généraux.
        - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
      • Joe Zias
        There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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          There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other places east. Tim White from the U of Calif Berkley was one of the head investigators.

          Joe Zias www.joezias.com
          Anthropology/Paleopathology

          Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
          Jerusalem, Israel

          --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...> wrote:
          From: Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
          Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 11:36 PM











          Dear list,



          I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

          story):



          About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

          one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

          Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

          against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

          unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

          to locate the original text.



          What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

          cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

          read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

          Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



          Anna Johnson

          ************ ******

          S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

          à faire de nous des héros,

          ils sauront bientôt que nos balles

          sont pour nos propres généraux.

          - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • victor
          Dear Anna, I can’t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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            Dear Anna,

            I can’t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by
            Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he discusses
            various documents in which people claim, supposedly that they have been
            reduced to cannibalism when under siege. I think he views such references as
            hyperbole. There are also literary references in the Bible such as in the
            curses in Deuteronomy 28:53-57, the Book of Lamentations 2:20; 4:10, and the
            account of the siege of Samaria in 2 Kings 6:28. You can certainly find
            further references in the commentaries to these verses.

            Victor Hurowitz

            BGU



            _____

            From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Nahed Johnspoon
            Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:36 AM
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy



            Dear list,

            I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
            story):

            About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
            one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
            Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
            against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
            unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
            to locate the original text.

            What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
            cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
            read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
            Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

            Anna Johnson
            ******************
            S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
            à faire de nous des héros,
            ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
            sont pour nos propres généraux.
            - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joe Zias
            Whereas the OT references state that it was first carried out here many believed that it was  later exported to the New World by the first settlers There is
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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              Whereas the OT references state that it was first carried out here many
              believed that it was� later exported to the New World by the first
              settlers There is now direct physical evidence from pre-contact periods
              that it was a practiced there as well. Little independent invention vs
              those who believe in Thor Heyerdahl and others 'cultural diffusion'

              Joe

              Joe Zias www.joezias.com
              Anthropology/Paleopathology

              Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
              Jerusalem, Israel

              --- On Sun, 11/2/08, victor <victor@...> wrote:
              From: victor <victor@...>
              Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 2:31 AM











              Dear Anna,



              I can�t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by

              Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he discusses

              various documents in which people claim, supposedly that they have been

              reduced to cannibalism when under siege. I think he views such references as

              hyperbole. There are also literary references in the Bible such as in the

              curses in Deuteronomy 28:53-57, the Book of Lamentations 2:20; 4:10, and the

              account of the siege of Samaria in 2 Kings 6:28. You can certainly find

              further references in the commentaries to these verses.



              Victor Hurowitz



              BGU



              _____



              From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of

              Nahed Johnspoon

              Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:36 AM

              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

              Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy



              Dear list,



              I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

              story):



              About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

              one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

              Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

              against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

              unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

              to locate the original text.



              What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

              cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

              read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

              Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



              Anna Johnson

              ************ ******

              S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

              � faire de nous des h�ros,

              ils sauront bient�t que nos balles

              sont pour nos propres g�n�raux.

              - Eug�ne Pottier l'internationale (1870)



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
              The Near Eastern references to anthropophagy are in M. Weinfeld, Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomic School (Oxford, 1972 [reprinted 1983]), 126-129 ; prominent
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
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                The Near Eastern references to anthropophagy are in M. Weinfeld, Deuteronomy
                and the Deuteronomic School (Oxford, 1972 [reprinted 1983]), 126-129 ;
                prominent amid them is Atrahasis, S v 22-26 (Lambert & Millard's,
                Atra-hasis. The Babylonian Story of the Flood, 112-113 ; S. Dalley, Myths
                from Mesopotamia, 26). See also Y. Hamilakis, "Eating the Dead : Mortuary
                Feasting and the Politics of Memory in the Aegean Bronze Age Societies", in
                K. Branigan (ed.), Cemetary and Society in the Aegean Bronze Age (Sheffield,
                Sheffield Academic Press, 1998), 115-132, and, for a Greek point of view, H.
                S. Versnel, Inconsistencies in Greek and Roman Religion (Leiden, 1990),
                107-110.

                J.-F. Nardelli
                Université de Provence
              • Rafal Kolinski
                Dear Will Dilbeck,   NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel s book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
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                  Dear Will Dilbeck,
                   
                  NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel's book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection of letters on political subjects published mainly in ARM 26 and 27, including some texts from earlier volumes of ARM. The rest of the published texts (ca. 7 500 tablets) is accesible only in French - or Akkadian)
                   
                  As for Nuzi, I don't know any collection of texts. As T. Thompson mentioned, there is a number of papers by Speiser and hundreds of papers by other scholars dealing with one or moretexts. Some subjects have been treated by some scholars on occasion of the PhD projects (mainly on Brandeis University), but these theses are usually not published. A good starting point is: Studies on the Civilization and Culture of Nuzi and the Hurrians - a series of nearly 20 volumes published by CDL Press in Bethesda, Maryland, since 1979.
                   
                  Best regards and good luck
                   
                  Rafal Kolinski
                  Institute of Prehistory
                  Adam Mickiewcz University  

                  --- On Fri, 31/10/08, Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...> wrote:

                  From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...>
                  Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts
                  To: ane-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 2:49 AM







                  Hello,
                  I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
                  Will Dilbeck
                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                  Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
                  http://clk.atdmt com/MRT/go/ msnnkwxp10200931 85mrt/direct/ 01/

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • E. Adams
                  ... If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?) which have E LaRoche s original numbered text groups and a not very up to date
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
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                    --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                    > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                    > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                    > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                    > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am
                    >unable to locate the original text.
                    >
                    > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                    > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection
                    >we read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than
                    >to Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
                    >
                    > Anna Johnson
                    > ******************
                    >

                    If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?)
                    which have E LaRoche's original numbered text groups and a not very
                    up to date Bibliography, I think CTH 17 is called The Cannibals'
                    Text. I'm not sure the exact dating of this text is agreed on,
                    nor whether it is literay or a fragment of an Old Hittite king's
                    annals ( usually taken to be Hattusilis I because of the occurrence
                    of someone named Zukrasi in said document as well as in Hattusilis'
                    account concerning events on his campaign to Aleppo). In any case
                    the cannibals, who seem to be Hittite allies in that they share a
                    common enemy, eat someone's mother, not the whole family
                    of a rebel. That sounds a little like the events in Sugziya in which
                    the family of a member of the royal family was murdered in a text
                    discussed by W. Helck -- but I don't remember cannibalism being
                    mentioned in this one. Perhaps one of our eminent Hittologists
                    has contacted you off list about this. If so, maybe you could
                    enlighten the rest of us on this subject.

                    I am away from home or I could give you better bibliographical
                    suggestions, but what I have on this laptop are:

                    Soysal, Oðuz (1999). "Beiträge zur althethitischen Geschichte (I):
                    Erganzende Bemerkungun zur Puhanu-Chronik und zum Menschenfresser-
                    Text," in Hethitica XIV, (BCILL 100), p. 109-145.

                    If I am not mistaken there is another article on the Cannibals/
                    MenschenFresser text in the same volume by a woman whose name escapes
                    me -this one in English, but more superficial, if I recall correctly.
                    Perhaps someone else has this volume at home and can enlighten us.

                    The Helck article: Helck, W. (1984). "Die Sukzija-Episode im Dekret
                    des Telepinus," in Welt des Orient (WO) 15.

                    Hope this helps,
                    E. Adams

                    PS ANE archive managers: Why on earth is this topic subsumed under
                    the Mari and Nuzi texts heading?
                  • Edrey, Meir
                    there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world: Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
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                      there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:

                      Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.

                      M. Edrey
                      ________________________________
                      From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon [sikozujohnson@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
                      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy


                      Dear list,

                      I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
                      story):

                      About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                      one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                      Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                      against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                      unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
                      to locate the original text.

                      What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                      cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
                      read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
                      Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

                      Anna Johnson
                      ******************
                      S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
                      à faire de nous des héros,
                      ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                      sont pour nos propres généraux.
                      - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
                    • cejo@uchicago.edu
                      Probably better to consult the published version: Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991 or the more
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
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                        Probably better to consult the published version:
                        Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991

                        or the more recent:

                        Bonnechere, Pierre Le sacrifice humain en Grèce ancienne. Athènes: Centre International d'Étude
                        de la Religion Grecque Antique; Liège, 1994 ( Kernos Supplément 3)

                        -Chuck Jones-

                        ---- Original message ----
                        >Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:57:36 +0100
                        >From: "Edrey, Meir" <edrey@...-mainz.de>
                        >Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                        >To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                        >
                        > there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:
                        >
                        > Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
                        > Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.
                        >
                        > M. Edrey
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon
                        > [sikozujohnson@...]
                        > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
                        > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                        >
                        > Dear list,
                        >
                        > I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
                        > story):
                        >
                        > About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                        > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                        > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                        > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                        > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
                        > to locate the original text.
                        >
                        > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                        > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
                        > read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
                        > Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
                        >
                        > Anna Johnson
                        > ******************
                        > S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
                        > à faire de nous des héros,
                        > ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                        > sont pour nos propres généraux.
                        > - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
                        >
                        >
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