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Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

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  • Jack Kilmon
    ... From: David Hall To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial ... To me it is not
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 31, 2008
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@...>
      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
      Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial


      > The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution's evidence
      > against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
      > updated August 23, 2008:
      >
      > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
      >
      > One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
      > guilt.
      >
      > David Q. Hall
      > dqhall59@...
      >


      To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
      concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in the
      latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
      simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription, the
      box is entirely genuine.

      http://www.bib-arch.org/news/forgery-trial-news.asp

      This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged artifacts,
      only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
      pomegranate is one of them either.

      Jack


      Jack Kilmon
      San Antonio, TX
    • David Hall
      The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles.  It was written by two different hands.    Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
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        The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles.  It was written by two different hands. 
         
        Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the patina. 
         
        http://www.davidrowan.com/2005/05/is-oded-golan-behind-biblical.html
         
        If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old, and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to prove when the dirt was added.  The appearance of natural chemical and physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
         
        If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will become tarnished and appear old.
         
        One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact same shape and color being sold as replicas.  They were not the usual smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had been buried for years.    
         
         
        Sincerely:
         
        David Q. Hall
        dqhall59@...
         
         
         

        --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:

        From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM







        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
        To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
        Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
        Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial

        > The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
        > against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
        > updated August 23, 2008:
        >
        > http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
        >
        > One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
        > guilt.
        >
        > David Q. Hall
        > dqhall59@yahoo. com
        >

        To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
        concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in the
        latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
        simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription, the
        box is entirely genuine.

        http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp

        This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged artifacts,
        only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
        pomegranate is one of them either.

        Jack

        Jack Kilmon
        San Antonio, TX
      • Jack Kilmon
        There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of variancein
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
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          There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
          hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
          variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
          particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
          see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptions, all
          done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.

          The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
          competent analyst.

          My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
          patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
          an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
          the box fell. . That simple.

          Jack Kilmon


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@...>
          To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


          > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
          > written by two different hands.
          >
          > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
          > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
          > patina.
          >
          > http://www.davidrowan.com/2005/05/is-oded-golan-behind-biblical.html
          >
          > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
          > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
          > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
          > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
          > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
          >
          > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
          > become tarnished and appear old.
          >
          > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
          > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact
          > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
          > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
          > been buried for years.
          >
          >
          > Sincerely:
          >
          > David Q. Hall
          > dqhall59@...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
          > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
          > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
          > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
          > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
          > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
          >
          >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
          >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
          >> updated August 23, 2008:
          >>
          >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
          >>
          >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
          >> guilt.
          >>
          >> David Q. Hall
          >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
          >>
          >
          > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
          > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
          > the
          > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
          > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
          > the
          > box is entirely genuine.
          >
          > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
          >
          > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
          > artifacts,
          > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
          > pomegranate is one of them either.
          >
          > Jack
          >
          > Jack Kilmon
          > San Antonio, TX
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • David Hall
          Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to be the
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
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            Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to be the bone box of Jesus of Nazareth.  It was suggested by some that this was proof of the book "The De Vinci Code."  The publisher was selling the De Vivci Code novel as fiction.  Not all were able to distinguish fact from fiction.  Hershel Shank's magazine "Biblical Archaeology Review" was promoting it as a genuine antiquity.  He also had published lead stories about the ivory pomegranate scepter that was on display in Washington D.C. during the 90's.  I cannot recall the exact measurements, only that it was a very small piece of ivory and also a lead story about the Jehoash tablet splattered with gold.  By that time Golan was rich and famous having claimed to have found the box Jesus bones were placed in and an inscription from Solomon's temple.  Since then he has been arrested with
            probable cause and is infamous throughout the world.  While many exalted the wicked the righteous were proven right.    
             
            David Q. Hall
             
             
             
             

            --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:

            From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM







            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
            To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
            Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
            Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial

            > The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
            > against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
            > updated August 23, 2008:
            >
            > http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
            >
            > One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
            > guilt.
            >
            > David Q. Hall
            > dqhall59@yahoo. com
            >

            To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
            concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in the
            latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
            simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription, the
            box is entirely genuine.

            http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp

            This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged artifacts,
            only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
            pomegranate is one of them either.

            Jack

            Jack Kilmon
            San Antonio, TX


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Hall
            I can only again cite the Haaretz article.   http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html   My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
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              I can only again cite the Haaretz article.
               
              http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
               
              My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I have been known to have incorrect memory recall.  Was the James the brother of Jesus Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?
               
              I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe myself to be infallible.  Did you not have transcripts from the court proceedings?  Perhaps more will be revealed later.   
               
              David Q. Hall   
                
               
               
              David Q. Hall
               
               

              --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:

              From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM






              There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
              hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
              variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
              particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
              see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all
              done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.

              The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
              competent analyst.

              My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
              patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
              an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
              the box fell. . That simple.

              Jack Kilmon

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
              To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
              Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

              > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
              > written by two different hands.
              >
              > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
              > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
              > patina.
              >
              > http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html
              >
              > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
              > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
              > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
              > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
              > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
              >
              > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
              > become tarnished and appear old.
              >
              > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
              > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact
              > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
              > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
              > been buried for years.
              >
              >
              > Sincerely:
              >
              > David Q. Hall
              > dqhall59@yahoo. com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
              >
              > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
              > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
              > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
              > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
              > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
              > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
              >
              >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
              >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
              >> updated August 23, 2008:
              >>
              >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
              >>
              >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
              >> guilt.
              >>
              >> David Q. Hall
              >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
              >>
              >
              > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
              > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
              > the
              > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
              > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
              > the
              > box is entirely genuine.
              >
              > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
              >
              > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
              > artifacts,
              > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
              > pomegranate is one of them either.
              >
              > Jack
              >
              > Jack Kilmon
              > San Antonio, TX
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Joseph I. Lauer
              David Q. Hall wrote that the Ha aretz article ( The art of authentic forgery by Nadav Shragai) was updated August 23, 2008 . However, the article at
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
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                David Q. Hall wrote that the Ha'aretz article ("The art of authentic
                forgery" by Nadav Shragai) was "updated August 23, 2008".
                However, the article at http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
                notes "Last update - 23:08 14/04/2008", that is, at 11:08 p.m. on April 14,
                2008.
                Joseph I. Lauer
                Brooklyn, New York
              • Joe Zias
                The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop of Deutsch but was found sitting on the throne at Oded Golans residence where it was
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
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                  The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop
                  of Deutsch but was found 'sitting on the throne' at Oded Golans
                  residence where it was accidentally discovered by the IAA. For a photo
                  of the 'throne' go to www.joezias.com and one can see it sitting there
                  where it was found. According to the Egyptian who worked for Golan, the
                  one outed by 60 minutes, he cleaned  it there as Golans dog was peeing
                  on it' (Burleighs "Unholy Business p. 208) whereas Golan claimed that
                  his mother had cleaned it. What I find absurd about this is SJ's remark
                  when his doc. was shown here in Jrsm that we in the profession did not
                  accept the ossuary as we were in fact showing an 'anti-Christian bias'
                  and then the Egyptian reported that Golans dawg was peeing on it all
                  the time. Anything for a buck and then they come out with the Talpiot
                  tomb after accusing us of having a anti-Christian bias.

                  Meanwhile the trial goes on....

                  Joe


                  Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                  Anthropology/Paleopathology

                  Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                  Jerusalem, Israel

                  --- On Sat, 11/1/08, David Hall <dqhall59@...> wrote:
                  From: David Hall <dqhall59@...>
                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 6:00 PM











                  I can only again cite the Haaretz article.

                   

                  http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html

                   

                  My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I have been known to have incorrect memory recall.  Was the James the brother of Jesus Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?

                   

                  I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe myself to be infallible.  Did you not have transcripts from the court proceedings?  Perhaps more will be revealed later.   

                   

                  David Q. Hall   

                    

                   

                   

                  David Q. Hall

                   

                   



                  --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:



                  From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                  Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM



                  There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different

                  hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of

                  variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,

                  particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I

                  see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all

                  done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.



                  The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a

                  competent analyst.



                  My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient

                  patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of

                  an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands

                  the box fell. . That simple.



                  Jack Kilmon



                  ----- Original Message -----

                  From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>

                  To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

                  Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM

                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial



                  > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was

                  > written by two different hands.

                  >

                  > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a

                  > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the

                  > patina.

                  >

                  > http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html

                  >

                  > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object

                  > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,

                  > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to

                  > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and

                  > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.

                  >

                  > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will

                  > become tarnished and appear old.

                  >

                  > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity

                  > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact

                  > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual

                  > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had

                  > been buried for years.

                  >

                  >

                  > Sincerely:

                  >

                  > David Q. Hall

                  > dqhall59@yahoo. com

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:

                  >

                  > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

                  > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                  > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                  > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > ----- Original Message -----

                  > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>

                  > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

                  > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM

                  > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                  >

                  >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence

                  >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,

                  >> updated August 23, 2008:

                  >>

                  >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html

                  >>

                  >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal

                  >> guilt.

                  >>

                  >> David Q. Hall

                  >> dqhall59@yahoo. com

                  >>

                  >

                  > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is

                  > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in

                  > the

                  > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that

                  > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,

                  > the

                  > box is entirely genuine.

                  >

                  > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp

                  >

                  > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged

                  > artifacts,

                  > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the

                  > pomegranate is one of them either.

                  >

                  > Jack

                  >

                  > Jack Kilmon

                  > San Antonio, TX

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > ------------ --------- --------- ------

                  >

                  > Yahoo! Groups Links

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jack Kilmon
                  ... From: David Hall To: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial ... Except
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@...>
                    To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:11 PM
                    Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


                    > Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an
                    > existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to
                    > be the bone box of Jesus of Nazareth.

                    Except that there is no conclusive evidence for this and very competent
                    paleographers, like Lemaire, disputeit AND there is ancient patina in the
                    part being claimed was added a few years ago.



                    > It was suggested by some that this was proof of the book "The De Vinci
                    > Code." The publisher was selling the De Vivci Code novel as fiction. Not
                    > all were able to distinguish fact from fiction.

                    The Da Vinci code was the greatest hoax of the century. Pure nonsense sold
                    as a "novel" with a knowing wink to the gullible.


                    > Hershel Shank's magazine "Biblical Archaeology Review" was promoting it as
                    > a genuine antiquity.

                    It is a genuine atinquity. No one disputes that.


                    >He also had published lead stories about the ivory pomegranate scepter that
                    >was on display in Washington D.C. during the 90's.

                    Yes, I remember. The pomegranate is also not conclusively a forgery.



                    >I cannot recall the exact measurements, only that it was a very small piece
                    >of ivory and also a lead story about the Jehoash tablet splattered with
                    >gold. By that time Golan was rich and famous having claimed to have found
                    >the box Jesus bones were placed in and an inscription from Solomon's
                    >temple. Since then he has been arrested with
                    > probable cause and is infamous throughout the world. While many exalted
                    > the wicked the righteous were proven right.


                    I think the pomegranate is authentic. The yod of BEYT definitely goes nto
                    the break as does the right tip of the tov and the left tip is, IMO,
                    malformed by the bulge which is an anomaly caused by its breakage, perhaps
                    the scepter being smahed against a wall. That is a possible scenario, the
                    point being it is not conclusively a forgery.

                    I know that the leadership and members of the IAA are enraged by hoaxes,
                    hustlers, hucksters, "Ark quests," either box or boat, the trade in
                    authentic artifacts and, rightfully, forged artifacts. In many ways it is a
                    political problem because very poor people desiring to feed their families,
                    can practically dig in their back yards and find items that are marketable
                    to dealers. Every once in a while someone will find an important artifact,
                    accidentally or by digging. Then there are the industrial looters who can
                    also find important artifacts and these find their way unprovenanced intothe
                    black market or unprincipled dealers. And, of course, there are the
                    forgers.

                    I am not one who believes forgery has become so sophisticated to go
                    undetected by competent analysts who would only take the trouble and expense
                    to examine artifacts of import to begin with. I have no sympathy for
                    tourists who purchase artifacts from other than unlicensed dealers. They
                    can take home their forty dollar Herodian lamps that were fired in a kiln
                    only yesterday. I am not smart enough to figure out a way to deal with the
                    larger political picture or how to close down the forgers of the "big
                    stuff." I just think the IAA with its over-zealotry is not the answer.

                    In 2004 Hanan Eshel was summoned to meet an Arab who had found a "Dead Sea
                    Scroll" and he was able to rescue it in time for $3,000.00 supplied by
                    Bar-Ilan University. He turned it over to the IAA and someone was moronic
                    enough to have him arrested and charged. That is when I lost all respect
                    for the IAA and its methods.

                    I don't know where the answers lie but Israel is a very small country with a
                    very large resource in intellect....I could rattle them off from Avigad to
                    Zias.

                    I am but an amateur but not half bad as a Semitist and paleographer andnot
                    easilt fooled by journalistic of magazine hype. I just do not think the
                    problem is being addressed appropriately.

                    Jack

                    Jack Kilmon
                    San Antonio, TX


                    >
                    > David Q. Hall
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                    > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                    > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                    > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                    > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                    >
                    >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                    >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                    >> updated August 23, 2008:
                    >>
                    >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                    >>
                    >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                    >> guilt.
                    >>
                    >> David Q. Hall
                    >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                    >>
                    >
                    > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                    > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
                    > the
                    > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                    > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
                    > the
                    > box is entirely genuine.
                    >
                    > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
                    >
                    > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
                    > artifacts,
                    > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                    > pomegranate is one of them either.
                    >
                    > Jack
                    >
                    > Jack Kilmon
                    > San Antonio, TX
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Jack Kilmon
                    Joe, it s simple. No good science...no believable authentication or inauthentication can ever take place in a whirling maelstrom of hucksters and hustlers,
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Joe, it's simple. No good science...no believable authentication or
                      inauthentication can ever take place in a whirling maelstrom of hucksters
                      and hustlers, religious, political and scholarly agendas or journalistic
                      quests for publication dollars. This artifact, if genuine, will mean
                      nothing now. If "jimmied" will still mean nothing. They need to take the
                      durn thing and put it on the warehouse shelf and take the vast amount of
                      money being spent and give it to the various dig directors who need help.

                      Jack

                      Jack Kilmon
                      San Antonio, TX

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
                      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                      Cc: "NinaNY" <ndbur@...>; "greenblatt" <greenbl@...>
                      Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:40 AM
                      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


                      > The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop
                      > of Deutsch but was found 'sitting on the throne' at Oded Golans
                      > residence where it was accidentally discovered by the IAA. For a photo
                      > of the 'throne' go to www.joezias.com and one can see it sitting there
                      > where it was found. According to the Egyptian who worked for Golan, the
                      > one outed by 60 minutes, he cleaned it there as Golans dog was peeing
                      > on it' (Burleighs "Unholy Business p. 208) whereas Golan claimed that
                      > his mother had cleaned it. What I find absurd about this is SJ's remark
                      > when his doc. was shown here in Jrsm that we in the profession did not
                      > accept the ossuary as we were in fact showing an 'anti-Christian bias'
                      > and then the Egyptian reported that Golans dawg was peeing on it all
                      > the time. Anything for a buck and then they come out with the Talpiot
                      > tomb after accusing us of having a anti-Christian bias.
                      >
                      > Meanwhile the trial goes on....
                      >
                      > Joe
                      >
                      >
                      > Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                      > Anthropology/Paleopathology
                      >
                      > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                      > Jerusalem, Israel
                      >
                      > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, David Hall <dqhall59@...> wrote:
                      > From: David Hall <dqhall59@...>
                      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 6:00 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I can only again cite the Haaretz article.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time. I have been
                      > known to have incorrect memory recall. Was the James the brother of Jesus
                      > Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe
                      > myself to be infallible. Did you not have transcripts from the court
                      > proceedings? Perhaps more will be revealed later.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > David Q. Hall
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > David Q. Hall
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
                      >
                      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                      >
                      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
                      >
                      > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
                      >
                      > hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
                      >
                      > variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
                      >
                      > particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
                      >
                      > see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all
                      >
                      > done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
                      >
                      > competent analyst.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
                      >
                      > patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
                      >
                      > an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
                      >
                      > the box fell. . That simple.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Jack Kilmon
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      >
                      > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                      >
                      > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                      >
                      > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
                      >
                      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >> The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
                      >
                      >> written by two different hands.
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
                      >
                      >> fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
                      >
                      >> patina.
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
                      >
                      >> is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
                      >
                      >> and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
                      >
                      >> prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
                      >
                      >> physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
                      >
                      >> become tarnished and appear old.
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
                      >
                      >> of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the
                      >> exact
                      >
                      >> same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
                      >
                      >> smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
                      >
                      >> been buried for years.
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> Sincerely:
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> David Q. Hall
                      >
                      >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
                      >
                      >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                      >
                      >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
                      >
                      >> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >
                      >> From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                      >
                      >> To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                      >
                      >> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                      >
                      >> Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                      >
                      >>> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                      >
                      >>> updated August 23, 2008:
                      >
                      >>>
                      >
                      >>> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                      >
                      >>>
                      >
                      >>> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                      >
                      >>> guilt.
                      >
                      >>>
                      >
                      >>> David Q. Hall
                      >
                      >>> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                      >
                      >>>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                      >
                      >> concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
                      >
                      >> the
                      >
                      >> latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                      >
                      >> simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
                      >
                      >> the
                      >
                      >> box is entirely genuine.
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
                      >
                      >> artifacts,
                      >
                      >> only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                      >
                      >> pomegranate is one of them either.
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> Jack
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> Jack Kilmon
                      >
                      >> San Antonio, TX
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Joseph I. Lauer
                      The Jerusalem Post Online Edition has just released an article headlined Justice Ministry to decide on Jesus ossuary . It begins: The Justice Ministry has
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The Jerusalem Post Online Edition has just released an article headlined
                        "Justice Ministry to decide on 'Jesus ossuary'". It begins: "The Justice
                        Ministry has been given six months to decide how to proceed in the trial of
                        an antiquities dealer suspected of forging a purported reference to Jesus on
                        an ancient burial box and a stone tablet with biblical passages. Both items
                        were hailed as major archaeological finds but subsequently deemed clever
                        forgeries. The ministry has been forced to reevaluate the case after the
                        Jerusalem District Court judge in the case advised the prosecution to
                        reassess its position in the three-year-old trial because it failed to prove
                        that the key suspect, Tel Aviv antiquities collector Oded Golan, had indeed
                        faked the biblical-era artifacts."
                        The article may be read at
                        http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1225199631832&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
                        or
                        http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1225199631832
                        Joseph I. Lauer
                        Brooklyn, New York

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