Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Mari & Nuzi Texts

Expand Messages
  • Will Dilbeck
    Hello, I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 30, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello,
      I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
      Will Dilbeck
      _________________________________________________________________
      Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
      http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Peter T. Daniels
      There s Wolfgang Heimpel s enormous Letters to the King of Mari: A New Translation with Historical Introduction, Notes, and Commentary (Eisenbrauns, 2003).
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 31, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        There's Wolfgang Heimpel's enormous Letters to the King of Mari: A New Translation with Historical Introduction, Notes, and Commentary (Eisenbrauns, 2003).

        Jack Sasson frequently lectures on social conditions at Mari, though I don't know how much he has yet published on the topic.--
        Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...>
        To: ane-2@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:49:21 PM
        Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts



        Hello,
        I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
        Will Dilbeck
      • Niels Peter Lemche
        For French speaking peeople: Jean-Marie Durand, Les documents épistolaires du palais de Mari, I-III, Littératures anciennes du Proche-Orient, 16-18, Pris,
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          For French speaking peeople: Jean-Marie Durand, Les documents épistolaires du palais de Mari, I-III, Littératures anciennes du Proche-Orient, 16-18, Pris, Les Éditions du cerf, 1998-2002, must be about eeverything in translation until ARM XIII. If people do not read French and are interested in the subject: Learn French!

          Niels Peter Lemche

          -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
          Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Peter T. Daniels
          Sendt: den 31 oktober 2008 14:20
          Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Emne: Re: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts

          There's Wolfgang Heimpel's enormous Letters to the King of Mari: A New Translation with Historical Introduction, Notes, and Commentary (Eisenbrauns, 2003).

          Jack Sasson frequently lectures on social conditions at Mari, though I don't know how much he has yet published on the topic.--
          Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...



          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...>
          To: ane-2@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:49:21 PM
          Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts



          Hello,
          I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
          Will Dilbeck
        • Rafal Kolinski
          Dear Will Dilbeck,   NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel s book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Will Dilbeck,
             
            NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel's book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection of letters on political subjects published mainly in ARM 26 and 27, including some texts from earlier volumes of ARM.
             
            As for Nuzi, I don't know any collection of texts. As T. Thompson mentioned, there is a number of papers by Speiser and hundreds of papers by other scholars dealing with one or several texts. Some subjects have been treated by some scholars on occasion of the PhD projects (mainly on Brandeis University), but these theses are usually not published. A good starting point is: Studies on the Civilization and Culture of Nuzi and the Hurrians - a series of nearly 20 volumes published by CDL Press in Bethesda, Maryland, since 1979.
             
            Best regards and good luck
             
            Rafal Kolinski
            Institute of Prehistory
            Adam Mickiewcz University  
             


            --- On Sat, 1/11/08, Niels Peter Lemche <npl@...> wrote:

            From: Niels Peter Lemche <npl@...>
            Subject: SV: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, 1 November, 2008, 8:36 AM






            For French speaking peeople: Jean-Marie Durand, Les documents épistolaires du palais de Mari, I-III, Littératures anciennes du Proche-Orient, 16-18, Pris, Les Éditions du cerf, 1998-2002, must be about eeverything in translation until ARM XIII. If people do not read French and are interested in the subject: Learn French!

            Niels Peter Lemche

            -----Oprindelig meddelelse-- ---
            Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] På vegne af Peter T. Daniels
            Sendt: den 31 oktober 2008 14:20
            Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
            Emne: Re: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts

            There's Wolfgang Heimpel's enormous Letters to the King of Mari: A New Translation with Historical Introduction, Notes, and Commentary (Eisenbra uns, 2003).

            Jack Sasson frequently lectures on social conditions at Mari, though I don't know how much he has yet published on the topic.--
            Peter T. Daniels grammatim@verizon. net

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@msn. com>
            To: ane-2@yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:49:21 PM
            Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts

            Hello,
            I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
            Will Dilbeck

















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nahed Johnspoon
            Dear list, I ve lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface story): About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and one
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 1, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear list,

              I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
              story):

              About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
              one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
              Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
              against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
              unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
              to locate the original text.

              What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
              cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
              read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
              Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

              Anna Johnson
              ******************
              S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
              à faire de nous des héros,
              ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
              sont pour nos propres généraux.
              - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
            • Joe Zias
              There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                There has been some work on it done by the folks in the US, however they were looking for evidence of it among the Neanderthalers here in Israel and other places east. Tim White from the U of Calif Berkley was one of the head investigators.

                Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                Anthropology/Paleopathology

                Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                Jerusalem, Israel

                --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...> wrote:
                From: Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
                Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 11:36 PM











                Dear list,



                I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

                story):



                About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

                one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

                Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

                against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

                unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

                to locate the original text.



                What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

                cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

                read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

                Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



                Anna Johnson

                ************ ******

                S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

                à faire de nous des héros,

                ils sauront bientôt que nos balles

                sont pour nos propres généraux.

                - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • victor
                Dear Anna, I can’t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Anna,

                  I can’t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by
                  Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he discusses
                  various documents in which people claim, supposedly that they have been
                  reduced to cannibalism when under siege. I think he views such references as
                  hyperbole. There are also literary references in the Bible such as in the
                  curses in Deuteronomy 28:53-57, the Book of Lamentations 2:20; 4:10, and the
                  account of the siege of Samaria in 2 Kings 6:28. You can certainly find
                  further references in the commentaries to these verses.

                  Victor Hurowitz

                  BGU



                  _____

                  From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Nahed Johnspoon
                  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:36 AM
                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy



                  Dear list,

                  I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
                  story):

                  About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                  one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                  Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                  against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                  unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
                  to locate the original text.

                  What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                  cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
                  read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
                  Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

                  Anna Johnson
                  ******************
                  S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
                  à faire de nous des héros,
                  ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                  sont pour nos propres généraux.
                  - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Joe Zias
                  Whereas the OT references state that it was first carried out here many believed that it was  later exported to the New World by the first settlers There is
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Whereas the OT references state that it was first carried out here many
                    believed that it was� later exported to the New World by the first
                    settlers There is now direct physical evidence from pre-contact periods
                    that it was a practiced there as well. Little independent invention vs
                    those who believe in Thor Heyerdahl and others 'cultural diffusion'

                    Joe

                    Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                    Anthropology/Paleopathology

                    Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                    Jerusalem, Israel

                    --- On Sun, 11/2/08, victor <victor@...> wrote:
                    From: victor <victor@...>
                    Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 2:31 AM











                    Dear Anna,



                    I can�t give you very much help, but I am aware of a book (in Hebrew) by

                    Israel Ephal on siege warfare in the ancient Near East in which he discusses

                    various documents in which people claim, supposedly that they have been

                    reduced to cannibalism when under siege. I think he views such references as

                    hyperbole. There are also literary references in the Bible such as in the

                    curses in Deuteronomy 28:53-57, the Book of Lamentations 2:20; 4:10, and the

                    account of the siege of Samaria in 2 Kings 6:28. You can certainly find

                    further references in the commentaries to these verses.



                    Victor Hurowitz



                    BGU



                    _____



                    From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of

                    Nahed Johnspoon

                    Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:36 AM

                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                    Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy



                    Dear list,



                    I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface

                    story):



                    About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and

                    one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published

                    Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel

                    against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have

                    unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable

                    to locate the original text.



                    What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on

                    cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we

                    read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to

                    Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.



                    Anna Johnson

                    ************ ******

                    S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,

                    � faire de nous des h�ros,

                    ils sauront bient�t que nos balles

                    sont pour nos propres g�n�raux.

                    - Eug�ne Pottier l'internationale (1870)



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
                    The Near Eastern references to anthropophagy are in M. Weinfeld, Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomic School (Oxford, 1972 [reprinted 1983]), 126-129 ; prominent
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 2, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The Near Eastern references to anthropophagy are in M. Weinfeld, Deuteronomy
                      and the Deuteronomic School (Oxford, 1972 [reprinted 1983]), 126-129 ;
                      prominent amid them is Atrahasis, S v 22-26 (Lambert & Millard's,
                      Atra-hasis. The Babylonian Story of the Flood, 112-113 ; S. Dalley, Myths
                      from Mesopotamia, 26). See also Y. Hamilakis, "Eating the Dead : Mortuary
                      Feasting and the Politics of Memory in the Aegean Bronze Age Societies", in
                      K. Branigan (ed.), Cemetary and Society in the Aegean Bronze Age (Sheffield,
                      Sheffield Academic Press, 1998), 115-132, and, for a Greek point of view, H.
                      S. Versnel, Inconsistencies in Greek and Roman Religion (Leiden, 1990),
                      107-110.

                      J.-F. Nardelli
                      Université de Provence
                    • Rafal Kolinski
                      Dear Will Dilbeck,   NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel s book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Will Dilbeck,
                         
                        NPL is right! If you are interested in Mari texts  you have to lern French. Heimpel's book mentioned by Peter Daniels is a collection of letters on political subjects published mainly in ARM 26 and 27, including some texts from earlier volumes of ARM. The rest of the published texts (ca. 7 500 tablets) is accesible only in French - or Akkadian)
                         
                        As for Nuzi, I don't know any collection of texts. As T. Thompson mentioned, there is a number of papers by Speiser and hundreds of papers by other scholars dealing with one or moretexts. Some subjects have been treated by some scholars on occasion of the PhD projects (mainly on Brandeis University), but these theses are usually not published. A good starting point is: Studies on the Civilization and Culture of Nuzi and the Hurrians - a series of nearly 20 volumes published by CDL Press in Bethesda, Maryland, since 1979.
                         
                        Best regards and good luck
                         
                        Rafal Kolinski
                        Institute of Prehistory
                        Adam Mickiewcz University  

                        --- On Fri, 31/10/08, Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...> wrote:

                        From: Will Dilbeck <jetli1978@...>
                        Subject: [ANE-2] Mari & Nuzi Texts
                        To: ane-2@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 2:49 AM







                        Hello,
                        I have recently been looking for sources of some of the Mari andNuzi texts but have found little that is printed in English. I waswondering if anyone knew of good sources for both kinds of texts.Thanks in advance,
                        Will Dilbeck
                        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                        Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
                        http://clk.atdmt com/MRT/go/ msnnkwxp10200931 85mrt/direct/ 01/

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • E. Adams
                        ... If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?) which have E LaRoche s original numbered text groups and a not very up to date
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 3, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Nahed Johnspoon <sikozujohnson@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                          > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                          > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                          > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                          > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am
                          >unable to locate the original text.
                          >
                          > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                          > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection
                          >we read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than
                          >to Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
                          >
                          > Anna Johnson
                          > ******************
                          >

                          If you look on the website for the CTH (Corpus des textes hittites?)
                          which have E LaRoche's original numbered text groups and a not very
                          up to date Bibliography, I think CTH 17 is called The Cannibals'
                          Text. I'm not sure the exact dating of this text is agreed on,
                          nor whether it is literay or a fragment of an Old Hittite king's
                          annals ( usually taken to be Hattusilis I because of the occurrence
                          of someone named Zukrasi in said document as well as in Hattusilis'
                          account concerning events on his campaign to Aleppo). In any case
                          the cannibals, who seem to be Hittite allies in that they share a
                          common enemy, eat someone's mother, not the whole family
                          of a rebel. That sounds a little like the events in Sugziya in which
                          the family of a member of the royal family was murdered in a text
                          discussed by W. Helck -- but I don't remember cannibalism being
                          mentioned in this one. Perhaps one of our eminent Hittologists
                          has contacted you off list about this. If so, maybe you could
                          enlighten the rest of us on this subject.

                          I am away from home or I could give you better bibliographical
                          suggestions, but what I have on this laptop are:

                          Soysal, Oðuz (1999). "Beiträge zur althethitischen Geschichte (I):
                          Erganzende Bemerkungun zur Puhanu-Chronik und zum Menschenfresser-
                          Text," in Hethitica XIV, (BCILL 100), p. 109-145.

                          If I am not mistaken there is another article on the Cannibals/
                          MenschenFresser text in the same volume by a woman whose name escapes
                          me -this one in English, but more superficial, if I recall correctly.
                          Perhaps someone else has this volume at home and can enlighten us.

                          The Helck article: Helck, W. (1984). "Die Sukzija-Episode im Dekret
                          des Telepinus," in Welt des Orient (WO) 15.

                          Hope this helps,
                          E. Adams

                          PS ANE archive managers: Why on earth is this topic subsumed under
                          the Mari and Nuzi texts heading?
                        • Edrey, Meir
                          there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world: Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:

                            Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.

                            M. Edrey
                            ________________________________
                            From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon [sikozujohnson@...]
                            Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
                            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy


                            Dear list,

                            I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
                            story):

                            About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                            one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                            Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                            against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                            unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
                            to locate the original text.

                            What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                            cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
                            read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
                            Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.

                            Anna Johnson
                            ******************
                            S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
                            à faire de nous des héros,
                            ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                            sont pour nos propres généraux.
                            - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
                          • cejo@uchicago.edu
                            Probably better to consult the published version: Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991 or the more
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 7, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Probably better to consult the published version:
                              Hughes, Dennis D. Human sacrifice in ancient Greece. London: Routledge; New York, 1991

                              or the more recent:

                              Bonnechere, Pierre Le sacrifice humain en Grèce ancienne. Athènes: Centre International d'Étude
                              de la Religion Grecque Antique; Liège, 1994 ( Kernos Supplément 3)

                              -Chuck Jones-

                              ---- Original message ----
                              >Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:57:36 +0100
                              >From: "Edrey, Meir" <edrey@...-mainz.de>
                              >Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                              >To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                              >
                              > there might be evidence for cannibalism in the Aegean-Minoan world:
                              >
                              > Hughes, Dennis D. 1986. Human Sacrifice in Ancient Greece: The Literary & Archaeological
                              > Evidence. Vol. I & II. ( Ph.D. Thesis. Ohio State University ) Ohio, U.S.A.
                              >
                              > M. Edrey
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nahed Johnspoon
                              > [sikozujohnson@...]
                              > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:36 AM
                              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [ANE-2] Query on anthropophagy
                              >
                              > Dear list,
                              >
                              > I've lurked for ages, and now have an actual question (with preface
                              > story):
                              >
                              > About ten years ago I took a course at Harvard on Indo-European and
                              > one of the texts we were presented to translate was a published
                              > Hittite bit containing a recounting of the punishment of a rebel
                              > against the regent by the killing and eating of his family. I have
                              > unfortunately lost my notes in the many moves since then and am unable
                              > to locate the original text.
                              >
                              > What I am asking is: does anyone have a reference for a work on
                              > cannibalism in the ANE? In the case of the Hittite annals selection we
                              > read, the author attributed this action to the regent rather than to
                              > Some Bad People Over There, and it interests me.
                              >
                              > Anna Johnson
                              > ******************
                              > S'ils s'obstinent, ces cannibales,
                              > à faire de nous des héros,
                              > ils sauront bientôt que nos balles
                              > sont pour nos propres généraux.
                              > - Eugène Pottier l'internationale (1870)
                              >
                              >
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.