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Qeiyafa inscription

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  • Yitzhak Sapir
    I mentioned already that some photos of the inscription are available here:
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 30, 2008
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      I mentioned already that some photos of the inscription are available here:
      http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/30/article-0-024BD48F000005DC-794_468x310_popup.jpg
      http://www.foxnews.com/images/459004/1_21_canaanite_shard_vert.jpg
      http://uk.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20081030&t=2&i=6601173&w=450&r=2008-10-30T174953Z_01_BTRE49T1DJA00_RTROPTP_0_ISRAEL-ARCHAEOLOGY
      http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/28102008/1684178/laron_wa.jpg

      A short video is also available here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFkf1_Kk1yU

      A Hebrew ynet article is here:
      http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3615546,00.html

      The Hebrew ynet provides that the words $wp+ שופט, (bd עבד and mlk
      מלך. Ynet adds "But it is probably just personal names like Ahimelekh
      or (abdiel" and that archaeologists claim the ostracon was written by a
      trained scribe.

      A short article in news1.co.il (formerly nfc.co.il) says pretty much the
      same: http://www.news1.co.il/Archive/001-D-177421-00.html?tag=06-15-45
      Before going on to cover other claims made at the conference then
      reported at press releases.

      The CNN article writes: "...initial interpretation indicates it formed part
      of a letter and contains the roots of the words "judge," "slave," and
      "king," according to the university. That may indicate it was a legal
      text, which archaeologists say would provide insights into Hebrew law,
      society, and beliefs. The researchers say the text was clearly written
      by a trained scribe."

      On Jim West's blog, a Foundation Stone (which is funding the dig)
      representative, Barnea Levi Selavan, writes:
      "Also, it is found near the gate of a fortified city, and may be related to
      this military context in its content. It wil take weeks until Hagi is ready
      to risk a real reading."

      There is also mention of the words "to do" being of significance to
      denote the inscription as Hebrew in the CNN article.

      During the conference no mention was made of (bd עבד "slave" and
      the word "to do" was noted in the words )l t(& אל תעש "Don't do."
      Perhaps the press conference attendees were confused by the claim
      of the Phoenician -- Phoenician and Aramaic "to do" use the roots (bd
      עבד and p(l פעל -- and thought it was part of the inscription and
      perhaps not and the text really does contain (bd (several reporters
      write essentially the same thing). There was no suggestion of the
      wider context of the inscription (list of names, legal text) and Misgav
      suggested there may be a country name following the word "king."
      The inscription is poorly legible, and an initial reading is apparently
      awaiting better photographs with more sophisticated equipment. The
      Foundation Stone representative adds, "Sophisticated methods reveal
      letters the naked eye canot se well. I discussed 3 options with Hagi
      today. one example: a NASA hi-tech camera just visited here for the
      Dead Sea scrolls and took a look at the ostracon- tests showed Hagi
      a new section of writing."

      It will probably be weeks or months before we have an initial reading
      of the ostracon, and all we can say now is that it is a short 5 line
      ostracon containing text in Proto-Canaanite script and which probably
      contains typical WS words (we don't even seem to have enough to
      classify it as NWS). Even (&h has quite a wide context listed in
      HALOT including OSArabic, and given this is all preliminary there
      probably shouldn't be concentration on any one word.

      Yitzhak Sapir
    • Yitzhak Sapir
      On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:41 AM, Yitzhak Sapir wrote: [...] ... [...] ... Also, there was no mention of a waw in this word at the conference, and Dr. Haggai
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 30, 2008
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        On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:41 AM, Yitzhak Sapir wrote:

        [...]
        > The Hebrew ynet provides that the words $wp+ שופט, (bd עבד and mlk
        > מלך. Ynet adds "But it is probably just personal names like Ahimelekh
        > or (abdiel" and that archaeologists claim the ostracon was written by a
        > trained scribe.
        [...]
        > During the conference no mention was made of (bd עבד "slave" and
        > the word "to do" was noted in the words )l t(& אל תעש "Don't do."

        Also, there was no mention of a waw in this word at the conference,
        and Dr. Haggai Misgav was uncertain as to how to vocalize it.

        Yitzhak Sapir
      • Yitzhak Sapir
        And for those who want to hear about it in Modern Hebrew, an interview with Prof. Garfinkel on a local tv station:
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 30, 2008
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          And for those who want to hear about it in Modern Hebrew, an interview with
          Prof. Garfinkel on a local tv station:

          http://www.nana10.co.il/Article/?ArticleID=591122&TypeID=1&sid=182&pid=48
          http://lnk.nana10.co.il/Article/?ArticleID=591122&TypeID=1&sid=182&pid=48

          To view it, I had to use fullscreen mode only for some reason, accessible
          using the icon just to the left of the Mute icon. The photo displayed is not
          much better quality than we've seen, but he does mention the words אל תעש,
          עבד, שפט, מלך. He says the inscription is fragmentary and that their
          conclusion after the $70,000 camera of NASA photographed a small portion
          of it and showed letters otherwise unvisible, is that they should send it over
          there to get the entire inscription photographed. He also says petrographic
          analysis indicates the material came from the Shephelah.

          Yitzhak Sapir
        • David Hall
          The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution s evidence against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery, updated August 23,
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 31, 2008
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            The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution's evidence against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery, updated August 23, 2008:
             
            http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
             
            One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal guilt.
             
            David Q. Hall
            dqhall59@...

             




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Brian Colless
            The first question I always ask myself is whether it is a consonantal or syllabic text. No question about it: this is an Iron Age inscription in the tradition
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 31, 2008
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              The first question I always ask myself is whether it is a consonantal
              or syllabic text.
              No question about it: this is an Iron Age inscription in the tradition
              of the Izbet Sarta ostracon, though I wish I had more details to work
              on.

              The text is said to have 50 letters. Possibly some of it is broken off
              at the top, a line or more.

              If sh-p-t. ('judge') really is a correct reading, then it tells us
              that the direction is left to right, as on the Izbet Sarta inscription
              (where all five lines are obviously moving in that direction,
              including the alphabet itself in line 5). Phoenician inscriptions from
              Byblos (syllabic and alphabetic) run from right to left (the typical
              Semitic direction)

              I said a lot about E (h) in a previous message, but I may be
              misreading the marks

              And a name for the place in the Bible? Could it be ´Socoh ["Lookout?"
              Root ´skh, look, watch] , "belonging to Judah", near the Elah valley
              (I Sam 17:1)? . The Philistines gathered there for battle, pitching
              their camp between Socoh and Azekah.

              Cp. ETHAN BRONNER (NYT):

              KHIRBET QEIYAFA, Israel — Overlooking the verdant Valley of Elah,
              where the Bible says David toppled Goliath, archaeologists are
              unearthing a 3,000-year-old fortified city that could reshape views of
              the period when David ruled over the Israelites. Five lines on pottery
              uncovered here appear to be the oldest Hebrew text ever found and are
              likely to have a major impact on knowledge about the history of
              literacy and alphabet development.

              If the city merely lasted a generation, it would be in the time of
              Saul and David.
              Rehoboam "built" Socoh and Adullam.

              Brian Colless
            • Jack Kilmon
              ... From: David Hall To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial ... To me it is not
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 31, 2008
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@...>
                To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial


                > The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution's evidence
                > against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                > updated August 23, 2008:
                >
                > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
                >
                > One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                > guilt.
                >
                > David Q. Hall
                > dqhall59@...
                >


                To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in the
                latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription, the
                box is entirely genuine.

                http://www.bib-arch.org/news/forgery-trial-news.asp

                This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged artifacts,
                only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                pomegranate is one of them either.

                Jack


                Jack Kilmon
                San Antonio, TX
              • David Hall
                The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles.  It was written by two different hands.    Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
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                  The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles.  It was written by two different hands. 
                   
                  Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the patina. 
                   
                  http://www.davidrowan.com/2005/05/is-oded-golan-behind-biblical.html
                   
                  If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old, and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to prove when the dirt was added.  The appearance of natural chemical and physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
                   
                  If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will become tarnished and appear old.
                   
                  One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact same shape and color being sold as replicas.  They were not the usual smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had been buried for years.    
                   
                   
                  Sincerely:
                   
                  David Q. Hall
                  dqhall59@...
                   
                   
                   

                  --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:

                  From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM







                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                  To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                  Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                  > The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                  > against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                  > updated August 23, 2008:
                  >
                  > http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                  >
                  > One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                  > guilt.
                  >
                  > David Q. Hall
                  > dqhall59@yahoo. com
                  >

                  To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                  concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in the
                  latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                  simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription, the
                  box is entirely genuine.

                  http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp

                  This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged artifacts,
                  only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                  pomegranate is one of them either.

                  Jack

                  Jack Kilmon
                  San Antonio, TX
                • Jack Kilmon
                  There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of variancein
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
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                    There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
                    hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
                    variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
                    particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
                    see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptions, all
                    done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.

                    The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
                    competent analyst.

                    My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
                    patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
                    an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
                    the box fell. . That simple.

                    Jack Kilmon


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@...>
                    To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
                    Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


                    > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
                    > written by two different hands.
                    >
                    > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
                    > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
                    > patina.
                    >
                    > http://www.davidrowan.com/2005/05/is-oded-golan-behind-biblical.html
                    >
                    > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
                    > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
                    > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
                    > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
                    > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
                    >
                    > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
                    > become tarnished and appear old.
                    >
                    > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
                    > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact
                    > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
                    > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
                    > been buried for years.
                    >
                    >
                    > Sincerely:
                    >
                    > David Q. Hall
                    > dqhall59@...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                    > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                    > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                    > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                    > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                    >
                    >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                    >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                    >> updated August 23, 2008:
                    >>
                    >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                    >>
                    >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                    >> guilt.
                    >>
                    >> David Q. Hall
                    >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                    >>
                    >
                    > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                    > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
                    > the
                    > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                    > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
                    > the
                    > box is entirely genuine.
                    >
                    > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
                    >
                    > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
                    > artifacts,
                    > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                    > pomegranate is one of them either.
                    >
                    > Jack
                    >
                    > Jack Kilmon
                    > San Antonio, TX
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • David Hall
                    Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to be the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
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                      Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to be the bone box of Jesus of Nazareth.  It was suggested by some that this was proof of the book "The De Vinci Code."  The publisher was selling the De Vivci Code novel as fiction.  Not all were able to distinguish fact from fiction.  Hershel Shank's magazine "Biblical Archaeology Review" was promoting it as a genuine antiquity.  He also had published lead stories about the ivory pomegranate scepter that was on display in Washington D.C. during the 90's.  I cannot recall the exact measurements, only that it was a very small piece of ivory and also a lead story about the Jehoash tablet splattered with gold.  By that time Golan was rich and famous having claimed to have found the box Jesus bones were placed in and an inscription from Solomon's temple.  Since then he has been arrested with
                      probable cause and is infamous throughout the world.  While many exalted the wicked the righteous were proven right.    
                       
                      David Q. Hall
                       
                       
                       
                       

                      --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:

                      From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM







                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                      Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                      Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                      > The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                      > against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                      > updated August 23, 2008:
                      >
                      > http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                      >
                      > One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                      > guilt.
                      >
                      > David Q. Hall
                      > dqhall59@yahoo. com
                      >

                      To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                      concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in the
                      latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                      simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription, the
                      box is entirely genuine.

                      http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp

                      This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged artifacts,
                      only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                      pomegranate is one of them either.

                      Jack

                      Jack Kilmon
                      San Antonio, TX


















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Hall
                      I can only again cite the Haaretz article.   http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html   My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 1, 2008
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                        I can only again cite the Haaretz article.
                         
                        http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
                         
                        My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I have been known to have incorrect memory recall.  Was the James the brother of Jesus Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?
                         
                        I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe myself to be infallible.  Did you not have transcripts from the court proceedings?  Perhaps more will be revealed later.   
                         
                        David Q. Hall   
                          
                         
                         
                        David Q. Hall
                         
                         

                        --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:

                        From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM






                        There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
                        hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
                        variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
                        particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
                        see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all
                        done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.

                        The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
                        competent analyst.

                        My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
                        patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
                        an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
                        the box fell. . That simple.

                        Jack Kilmon

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                        To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                        Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
                        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                        > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
                        > written by two different hands.
                        >
                        > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
                        > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
                        > patina.
                        >
                        > http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html
                        >
                        > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
                        > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
                        > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
                        > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
                        > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
                        >
                        > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
                        > become tarnished and appear old.
                        >
                        > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
                        > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact
                        > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
                        > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
                        > been buried for years.
                        >
                        >
                        > Sincerely:
                        >
                        > David Q. Hall
                        > dqhall59@yahoo. com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
                        > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                        > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
                        > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                        > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                        > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                        > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                        >
                        >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                        >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                        >> updated August 23, 2008:
                        >>
                        >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                        >>
                        >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                        >> guilt.
                        >>
                        >> David Q. Hall
                        >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                        >>
                        >
                        > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                        > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
                        > the
                        > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                        > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
                        > the
                        > box is entirely genuine.
                        >
                        > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
                        >
                        > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
                        > artifacts,
                        > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                        > pomegranate is one of them either.
                        >
                        > Jack
                        >
                        > Jack Kilmon
                        > San Antonio, TX
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Joseph I. Lauer
                        David Q. Hall wrote that the Ha aretz article ( The art of authentic forgery by Nadav Shragai) was updated August 23, 2008 . However, the article at
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
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                          David Q. Hall wrote that the Ha'aretz article ("The art of authentic
                          forgery" by Nadav Shragai) was "updated August 23, 2008".
                          However, the article at http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974483.html
                          notes "Last update - 23:08 14/04/2008", that is, at 11:08 p.m. on April 14,
                          2008.
                          Joseph I. Lauer
                          Brooklyn, New York
                        • Joe Zias
                          The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop of Deutsch but was found sitting on the throne at Oded Golans residence where it was
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
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                            The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop
                            of Deutsch but was found 'sitting on the throne' at Oded Golans
                            residence where it was accidentally discovered by the IAA. For a photo
                            of the 'throne' go to www.joezias.com and one can see it sitting there
                            where it was found. According to the Egyptian who worked for Golan, the
                            one outed by 60 minutes, he cleaned  it there as Golans dog was peeing
                            on it' (Burleighs "Unholy Business p. 208) whereas Golan claimed that
                            his mother had cleaned it. What I find absurd about this is SJ's remark
                            when his doc. was shown here in Jrsm that we in the profession did not
                            accept the ossuary as we were in fact showing an 'anti-Christian bias'
                            and then the Egyptian reported that Golans dawg was peeing on it all
                            the time. Anything for a buck and then they come out with the Talpiot
                            tomb after accusing us of having a anti-Christian bias.

                            Meanwhile the trial goes on....

                            Joe


                            Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                            Anthropology/Paleopathology

                            Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                            Jerusalem, Israel

                            --- On Sat, 11/1/08, David Hall <dqhall59@...> wrote:
                            From: David Hall <dqhall59@...>
                            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 6:00 PM











                            I can only again cite the Haaretz article.

                             

                            http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html

                             

                            My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time.  I have been known to have incorrect memory recall.  Was the James the brother of Jesus Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?

                             

                            I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe myself to be infallible.  Did you not have transcripts from the court proceedings?  Perhaps more will be revealed later.   

                             

                            David Q. Hall   

                              

                             

                             

                            David Q. Hall

                             

                             



                            --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:



                            From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

                            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                            Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM



                            There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different

                            hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of

                            variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,

                            particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I

                            see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all

                            done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.



                            The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a

                            competent analyst.



                            My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient

                            patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of

                            an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands

                            the box fell. . That simple.



                            Jack Kilmon



                            ----- Original Message -----

                            From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>

                            To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

                            Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM

                            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial



                            > The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was

                            > written by two different hands.

                            >

                            > Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a

                            > fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the

                            > patina.

                            >

                            > http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html

                            >

                            > If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object

                            > is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,

                            > and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to

                            > prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and

                            > physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.

                            >

                            > If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will

                            > become tarnished and appear old.

                            >

                            > One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity

                            > of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the exact

                            > same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual

                            > smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had

                            > been buried for years.

                            >

                            >

                            > Sincerely:

                            >

                            > David Q. Hall

                            > dqhall59@yahoo. com

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:

                            >

                            > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

                            > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                            > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                            > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > ----- Original Message -----

                            > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>

                            > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

                            > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM

                            > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial

                            >

                            >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence

                            >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,

                            >> updated August 23, 2008:

                            >>

                            >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html

                            >>

                            >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal

                            >> guilt.

                            >>

                            >> David Q. Hall

                            >> dqhall59@yahoo. com

                            >>

                            >

                            > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is

                            > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in

                            > the

                            > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that

                            > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,

                            > the

                            > box is entirely genuine.

                            >

                            > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp

                            >

                            > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged

                            > artifacts,

                            > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the

                            > pomegranate is one of them either.

                            >

                            > Jack

                            >

                            > Jack Kilmon

                            > San Antonio, TX

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > ------------ --------- --------- ------

                            >

                            > Yahoo! Groups Links

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Jack Kilmon
                            ... From: David Hall To: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial ... Except
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@...>
                              To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:11 PM
                              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


                              > Golan took a real ossuary from circa first century times and added to an
                              > existing inscription and sold it for a great price as it was suggested to
                              > be the bone box of Jesus of Nazareth.

                              Except that there is no conclusive evidence for this and very competent
                              paleographers, like Lemaire, disputeit AND there is ancient patina in the
                              part being claimed was added a few years ago.



                              > It was suggested by some that this was proof of the book "The De Vinci
                              > Code." The publisher was selling the De Vivci Code novel as fiction. Not
                              > all were able to distinguish fact from fiction.

                              The Da Vinci code was the greatest hoax of the century. Pure nonsense sold
                              as a "novel" with a knowing wink to the gullible.


                              > Hershel Shank's magazine "Biblical Archaeology Review" was promoting it as
                              > a genuine antiquity.

                              It is a genuine atinquity. No one disputes that.


                              >He also had published lead stories about the ivory pomegranate scepter that
                              >was on display in Washington D.C. during the 90's.

                              Yes, I remember. The pomegranate is also not conclusively a forgery.



                              >I cannot recall the exact measurements, only that it was a very small piece
                              >of ivory and also a lead story about the Jehoash tablet splattered with
                              >gold. By that time Golan was rich and famous having claimed to have found
                              >the box Jesus bones were placed in and an inscription from Solomon's
                              >temple. Since then he has been arrested with
                              > probable cause and is infamous throughout the world. While many exalted
                              > the wicked the righteous were proven right.


                              I think the pomegranate is authentic. The yod of BEYT definitely goes nto
                              the break as does the right tip of the tov and the left tip is, IMO,
                              malformed by the bulge which is an anomaly caused by its breakage, perhaps
                              the scepter being smahed against a wall. That is a possible scenario, the
                              point being it is not conclusively a forgery.

                              I know that the leadership and members of the IAA are enraged by hoaxes,
                              hustlers, hucksters, "Ark quests," either box or boat, the trade in
                              authentic artifacts and, rightfully, forged artifacts. In many ways it is a
                              political problem because very poor people desiring to feed their families,
                              can practically dig in their back yards and find items that are marketable
                              to dealers. Every once in a while someone will find an important artifact,
                              accidentally or by digging. Then there are the industrial looters who can
                              also find important artifacts and these find their way unprovenanced intothe
                              black market or unprincipled dealers. And, of course, there are the
                              forgers.

                              I am not one who believes forgery has become so sophisticated to go
                              undetected by competent analysts who would only take the trouble and expense
                              to examine artifacts of import to begin with. I have no sympathy for
                              tourists who purchase artifacts from other than unlicensed dealers. They
                              can take home their forty dollar Herodian lamps that were fired in a kiln
                              only yesterday. I am not smart enough to figure out a way to deal with the
                              larger political picture or how to close down the forgers of the "big
                              stuff." I just think the IAA with its over-zealotry is not the answer.

                              In 2004 Hanan Eshel was summoned to meet an Arab who had found a "Dead Sea
                              Scroll" and he was able to rescue it in time for $3,000.00 supplied by
                              Bar-Ilan University. He turned it over to the IAA and someone was moronic
                              enough to have him arrested and charged. That is when I lost all respect
                              for the IAA and its methods.

                              I don't know where the answers lie but Israel is a very small country with a
                              very large resource in intellect....I could rattle them off from Avigad to
                              Zias.

                              I am but an amateur but not half bad as a Semitist and paleographer andnot
                              easilt fooled by journalistic of magazine hype. I just do not think the
                              problem is being addressed appropriately.

                              Jack

                              Jack Kilmon
                              San Antonio, TX


                              >
                              > David Q. Hall
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                              > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                              > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                              > Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                              >
                              >> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                              >> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                              >> updated August 23, 2008:
                              >>
                              >> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                              >>
                              >> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                              >> guilt.
                              >>
                              >> David Q. Hall
                              >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                              >>
                              >
                              > To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                              > concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
                              > the
                              > latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                              > simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
                              > the
                              > box is entirely genuine.
                              >
                              > http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
                              >
                              > This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
                              > artifacts,
                              > only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                              > pomegranate is one of them either.
                              >
                              > Jack
                              >
                              > Jack Kilmon
                              > San Antonio, TX
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Jack Kilmon
                              Joe, it s simple. No good science...no believable authentication or inauthentication can ever take place in a whirling maelstrom of hucksters and hustlers,
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Joe, it's simple. No good science...no believable authentication or
                                inauthentication can ever take place in a whirling maelstrom of hucksters
                                and hustlers, religious, political and scholarly agendas or journalistic
                                quests for publication dollars. This artifact, if genuine, will mean
                                nothing now. If "jimmied" will still mean nothing. They need to take the
                                durn thing and put it on the warehouse shelf and take the vast amount of
                                money being spent and give it to the various dig directors who need help.

                                Jack

                                Jack Kilmon
                                San Antonio, TX

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
                                To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                                Cc: "NinaNY" <ndbur@...>; "greenblatt" <greenbl@...>
                                Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:40 AM
                                Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial


                                > The James, son of Yosef, brother of Jesus ossuary was not in the shop
                                > of Deutsch but was found 'sitting on the throne' at Oded Golans
                                > residence where it was accidentally discovered by the IAA. For a photo
                                > of the 'throne' go to www.joezias.com and one can see it sitting there
                                > where it was found. According to the Egyptian who worked for Golan, the
                                > one outed by 60 minutes, he cleaned it there as Golans dog was peeing
                                > on it' (Burleighs "Unholy Business p. 208) whereas Golan claimed that
                                > his mother had cleaned it. What I find absurd about this is SJ's remark
                                > when his doc. was shown here in Jrsm that we in the profession did not
                                > accept the ossuary as we were in fact showing an 'anti-Christian bias'
                                > and then the Egyptian reported that Golans dawg was peeing on it all
                                > the time. Anything for a buck and then they come out with the Talpiot
                                > tomb after accusing us of having a anti-Christian bias.
                                >
                                > Meanwhile the trial goes on....
                                >
                                > Joe
                                >
                                >
                                > Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                                > Anthropology/Paleopathology
                                >
                                > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                                > Jerusalem, Israel
                                >
                                > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, David Hall <dqhall59@...> wrote:
                                > From: David Hall <dqhall59@...>
                                > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                                > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 6:00 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I can only again cite the Haaretz article.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > My mind has lost some of the facts of the case over time. I have been
                                > known to have incorrect memory recall. Was the James the brother of Jesus
                                > Ossuary from the shop of a man who trafficked in forged antiquities?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I do not believe you never wavered and knew all, anymore than I believe
                                > myself to be infallible. Did you not have transcripts from the court
                                > proceedings? Perhaps more will be revealed later.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > David Q. Hall
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > David Q. Hall
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
                                >
                                > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                                >
                                > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
                                >
                                > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 1:21 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > There is no convincing evidence that the inscription is in two different
                                >
                                > hands. There is no variation between scripts outside of the range of
                                >
                                > variancein letters for a scribe working in stone rather than on skin,
                                >
                                > particularly this type of stone that has variable substrate anomalies. I
                                >
                                > see even wider varianceon a few hundred other ossuarialinscriptio ns, all
                                >
                                > done by single inscribers, both literate and illiterate.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The "shake and bake" method of faking patina cannot possibly fool a
                                >
                                > competent analyst.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > My position has never waivered for 6 years. If there is genuinely ancient
                                >
                                > patina in the insciption itself, the inscription is genuine, regardless of
                                >
                                > an idiotic attempt to clean it and its abuse by the morons in whose hands
                                >
                                > the box fell. . That simple.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Jack Kilmon
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                >
                                > From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                                >
                                > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                                >
                                > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:27 AM
                                >
                                > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >> The ossuary was inscribed in two different calligraphy styles. It was
                                >
                                >> written by two different hands.
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> Geologist Goren concluded that the ossuary was first cleaned and then a
                                >
                                >> fake patina was added as there were traces of the cleaner under the
                                >
                                >> patina.
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> http://www.davidrow an.com/2005/ 05/is-oded- golan-behind- biblical. html
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> If you rub dirt on an object, you might later find the dirt on the object
                                >
                                >> is real containing ancient foraminifera, the dirt is authentic and old,
                                >
                                >> and may guess the dirty object must be authentic, but it is difficult to
                                >
                                >> prove when the dirt was added. The appearance of natural chemical and
                                >
                                >> physical weathering may have been duplicated by artificial means.
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> If you hold a silver coin over a flame of combusted sulphur the coin will
                                >
                                >> become tarnished and appear old.
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> One year I was walking through the Souk of Old Jerusalem in the vicinity
                                >
                                >> of Muristan and saw a basket full of Roman type oil lamps of all the
                                >> exact
                                >
                                >> same shape and color being sold as replicas. They were not the usual
                                >
                                >> smooth terra cotta replicas, but were crusty in appearance as if they had
                                >
                                >> been buried for years.
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> Sincerely:
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> David Q. Hall
                                >
                                >> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
                                >
                                >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                                >
                                >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
                                >
                                >> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:21 PM
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> ----- Original Message -----
                                >
                                >> From: "David Hall" <dqhall59@yahoo. com>
                                >
                                >> To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
                                >
                                >> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 2:28 AM
                                >
                                >> Subject: [ANE-2] Golan trial
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>> The Haaretz newspaper summarized some of the prosecution' s evidence
                                >
                                >>> against Golan and those alleged to have carried out anitquities forgery,
                                >
                                >>> updated August 23, 2008:
                                >
                                >>>
                                >
                                >>> http://www.haaretz. com/hasen/ spages/974483. html
                                >
                                >>>
                                >
                                >>> One person involved in the case has already been convicted of criminal
                                >
                                >>> guilt.
                                >
                                >>>
                                >
                                >>> David Q. Hall
                                >
                                >>> dqhall59@yahoo. com
                                >
                                >>>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> To me it is not all that complicated as far as the James Ossuary is
                                >
                                >> concerned. Yuval Goren testified that there is indeed ancient patina in
                                >
                                >> the
                                >
                                >> latter part of the inscription. My position since 2002 has been that
                                >
                                >> simple. If there is genuinely ancient patina in the entire inscription,
                                >
                                >> the
                                >
                                >> box is entirely genuine.
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> http://www.bib- arch.org/ news/forgery- trial-news. asp
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> This does not mean that Golan is innocent of manufacturing forged
                                >
                                >> artifacts,
                                >
                                >> only that this ossuary was not one of them. I also do not believe the
                                >
                                >> pomegranate is one of them either.
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> Jack
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> Jack Kilmon
                                >
                                >> San Antonio, TX
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Joseph I. Lauer
                                The Jerusalem Post Online Edition has just released an article headlined Justice Ministry to decide on Jesus ossuary . It begins: The Justice Ministry has
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 2, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  The Jerusalem Post Online Edition has just released an article headlined
                                  "Justice Ministry to decide on 'Jesus ossuary'". It begins: "The Justice
                                  Ministry has been given six months to decide how to proceed in the trial of
                                  an antiquities dealer suspected of forging a purported reference to Jesus on
                                  an ancient burial box and a stone tablet with biblical passages. Both items
                                  were hailed as major archaeological finds but subsequently deemed clever
                                  forgeries. The ministry has been forced to reevaluate the case after the
                                  Jerusalem District Court judge in the case advised the prosecution to
                                  reassess its position in the three-year-old trial because it failed to prove
                                  that the key suspect, Tel Aviv antiquities collector Oded Golan, had indeed
                                  faked the biblical-era artifacts."
                                  The article may be read at
                                  http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1225199631832&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
                                  or
                                  http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1225199631832
                                  Joseph I. Lauer
                                  Brooklyn, New York

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                                  <http://tinyurl.com>

                                  MC
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