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Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

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  • George F Somsel
    If you are suggesting xxBN HKHN HGDL then none of the names suggested in the article as being high priests of this period would end with BN.  It would then
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 8, 2008
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      If you are suggesting xxBN HKHN HGDL then none of the names�suggested in the article as being high priests�of this period would end with BN.� It would then likely require a different time frame (which may not be a problem since I am not aware of how well-established this time frame might be).�� I note that Caiphas is included.� Do we not already have an ossuary attributed to him?

      �george
      gfsomsel


      � search for truth, hear truth,
      learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
      defend the truth till death.


      - Jan Hus
      _________



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 4:14:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus


      No, I noted that an excellent epigrapher suggested it...I was refering to
      Robert, of course since he is one of the best. His books have sure taught
      me a lot. Since the text is in Hebrew I suspect that if the -BN is the
      suffix of a name, as Robert suggests, it may be the Semitic version of one
      of the many Greek names used.

      Regards,

      Jack Kilmon

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Christopher Conlan" <chris_conlan@ yahoo.co. uk>
      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
      Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:57 PM
      Subject: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

      >I am fairly certain that Jack Kilmon raised this possibility earlier
      > today, and noted that there are no known High Priests whose name ends
      > <...>bn - that would seem like a real problem with this theory.
      >
      > I guess that the value of the piece would be significantly higher if
      > it is the sarcophagus of a "known" High Priest, than if it is the
      > sarcophagus of the son of an unknown High Priest...
      >
      > Christopher Conlan
      > Washington, DC
      >
      > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "Robert Deutsch" <mail@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Dear list members,
      >>
      >> The interpretation of the inscription make no sense !
      >> Can a certain person be the son of an anonymous High Priest ?
      >>
      >> As the right side of the fragment is damaged and the surface
      >> before the first visible letter is missing, I will suggest a
      >> different reading:
      >>
      >> [....]bn the High Priest
      >> Where the "...bn" is the suffix of a personal name.
      >>
      >> This means that the sarcophagus belongs to a named High Priest
      >> and not to a son of an anonymous High Priest.
      >>
      >> Robert Deutsch
      .





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jack Kilmon
      Hi George: Yes, we do have Caiphas ossuary and the inscription on it is YHWSF BR QYF) and not the Greek form of his name (I think Joe Zias examined the
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
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        Hi George:

        Yes, we do have Caiphas' ossuary and the inscription on it is YHWSF BR QYF)
        and not the Greek form of his name (I think Joe Zias examined the skeletal
        remains). That is why I was wondering if xxbn may be part of the semitized
        name of one of the many Greek names used for the HPs. I can't speak for
        Robert and I believe he is a member here, but I am sure he meant that the BN
        as a suffix could be a possibility that requires closer examination of the
        damaged margin between the broken edge of the sarc lid and the BN that
        appears to show up on the photos. I see what looks like an incised mark
        over and slightly to the right of the Beyt.

        I am sure that HPs like Theophilos, i.e., had Hebrew/Aramaic names in
        addition to their Greek names (even though this HPs name on his
        grandaughter's ossuary is transliterated Greek to Hebrew). Hopefully in
        this ongoing excavation they will find other shards of this sarcophagus.

        The more I study the inscription from a paleographic standpoint, the more I
        think it is late Hasmonean....but this is part of an amateur's fun with new
        epigraphic discoveries.

        Jack


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel@...>
        To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:13 PM
        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus


        > If you are suggesting xxBN HKHN HGDL then none of the names suggested in
        > the article as being high priests of this period would end with BN. It
        > would then likely require a different time frame (which may not be a
        > problem since I am not aware of how well-established this time frame might
        > be). I note that Caiphas is included. Do we not already have an ossuary
        > attributed to him?
        >
        > george
        > gfsomsel
        >
        >
        > . search for truth, hear truth,
        > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
        > defend the truth till death.
        >
        >
        > - Jan Hus
        > _________
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
        > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 4:14:39 PM
        > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus
        >
        >
        > No, I noted that an excellent epigrapher suggested it...I was refering to
        > Robert, of course since he is one of the best. His books have sure taught
        > me a lot. Since the text is in Hebrew I suspect that if the -BN is the
        > suffix of a name, as Robert suggests, it may be the Semitic version of one
        > of the many Greek names used.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Jack Kilmon
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Christopher Conlan" <chris_conlan@ yahoo.co. uk>
        > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:57 PM
        > Subject: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus
        >
        >>I am fairly certain that Jack Kilmon raised this possibility earlier
        >> today, and noted that there are no known High Priests whose name ends
        >> <...>bn - that would seem like a real problem with this theory.
        >>
        >> I guess that the value of the piece would be significantly higher if
        >> it is the sarcophagus of a "known" High Priest, than if it is the
        >> sarcophagus of the son of an unknown High Priest...
        >>
        >> Christopher Conlan
        >> Washington, DC
        >>
        >> --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "Robert Deutsch" <mail@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> Dear list members,
        >>>
        >>> The interpretation of the inscription make no sense !
        >>> Can a certain person be the son of an anonymous High Priest ?
        >>>
        >>> As the right side of the fragment is damaged and the surface
        >>> before the first visible letter is missing, I will suggest a
        >>> different reading:
        >>>
        >>> [....]bn the High Priest
        >>> Where the "...bn" is the suffix of a personal name.
        >>>
        >>> This means that the sarcophagus belongs to a named High Priest
        >>> and not to a son of an anonymous High Priest.
        >>>
        >>> Robert Deutsch
        > .
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Joe Zias
        There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas Unfortunately, religious
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
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          There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas Unfortunately, religious fanatics were stoning us during the excavation and we were eventually forced to abandon the excavation, though we were fortunate to take the ossuaries to the museum for examination. One interesting fact though glossed over by many is  that I, working alongside  Ronnie Reich the excavator,  found a coin in situ in the palate of one of the woman in an ossuary. Seems she was 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and in retrospect this seems to have been for me personally, one of the more hypocritical customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of the High Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to David Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I told him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not all that surprised.

          Joe

          Joe Zias www.joezias.com
          Anthropology/Paleopathology

          Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
          Jerusalem, Israel

          --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
          From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:38 AM











          Hi George:



          Yes, we do have Caiphas' ossuary and the inscription on it is YHWSF BR QYF)

          and not the Greek form of his name (I think Joe Zias examined the skeletal

          remains). That is why I was wondering if xxbn may be part of the semitized

          name of one of the many Greek names used for the HPs. I can't speak for

          Robert and I believe he is a member here, but I am sure he meant that the BN

          as a suffix could be a possibility that requires closer examination of the

          damaged margin between the broken edge of the sarc lid and the BN that

          appears to show up on the photos. I see what looks like an incised mark

          over and slightly to the right of the Beyt.



          I am sure that HPs like Theophilos, i.e., had Hebrew/Aramaic names in

          addition to their Greek names (even though this HPs name on his

          grandaughter' s ossuary is transliterated Greek to Hebrew). Hopefully in

          this ongoing excavation they will find other shards of this sarcophagus.



          The more I study the inscription from a paleographic standpoint, the more I

          think it is late Hasmonean... .but this is part of an amateur's fun with new

          epigraphic discoveries.



          Jack



          ----- Original Message -----

          From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel@yahoo. com>

          To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

          Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:13 PM

          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus



          > If you are suggesting xxBN HKHN HGDL then none of the names suggested in

          > the article as being high priests of this period would end with BN. It

          > would then likely require a different time frame (which may not be a

          > problem since I am not aware of how well-established this time frame might

          > be). I note that Caiphas is included. Do we not already have an ossuary

          > attributed to him?

          >

          > george

          > gfsomsel

          >

          >

          > . search for truth, hear truth,

          > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,

          > defend the truth till death.

          >

          >

          > - Jan Hus

          > _________

          >

          >

          >

          > ----- Original Message ----

          > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

          > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

          > Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 4:14:39 PM

          > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

          >

          >

          > No, I noted that an excellent epigrapher suggested it...I was refering to

          > Robert, of course since he is one of the best. His books have sure taught

          > me a lot. Since the text is in Hebrew I suspect that if the -BN is the

          > suffix of a name, as Robert suggests, it may be the Semitic version of one

          > of the many Greek names used.

          >

          > Regards,

          >

          > Jack Kilmon

          >

          > ----- Original Message -----

          > From: "Christopher Conlan" <chris_conlan@ yahoo.co. uk>

          > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

          > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:57 PM

          > Subject: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

          >

          >>I am fairly certain that Jack Kilmon raised this possibility earlier

          >> today, and noted that there are no known High Priests whose name ends

          >> <...>bn - that would seem like a real problem with this theory.

          >>

          >> I guess that the value of the piece would be significantly higher if

          >> it is the sarcophagus of a "known" High Priest, than if it is the

          >> sarcophagus of the son of an unknown High Priest...

          >>

          >> Christopher Conlan

          >> Washington, DC

          >>

          >> --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "Robert Deutsch" <mail@...> wrote:

          >>>

          >>> Dear list members,

          >>>

          >>> The interpretation of the inscription make no sense !

          >>> Can a certain person be the son of an anonymous High Priest ?

          >>>

          >>> As the right side of the fragment is damaged and the surface

          >>> before the first visible letter is missing, I will suggest a

          >>> different reading:

          >>>

          >>> [....]bn the High Priest

          >>> Where the "...bn" is the suffix of a personal name.

          >>>

          >>> This means that the sarcophagus belongs to a named High Priest

          >>> and not to a son of an anonymous High Priest.

          >>>

          >>> Robert Deutsch

          > .

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          >

          > ------------ --------- --------- ------

          >

          > Yahoo! Groups Links

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >


























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim West
          I d like to hear more about this pagan custom and its place in Jewish practice. ... ++++++ Jim West, ThD http://jwest.wordpress.com - Blog
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
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            I'd like to hear more about this pagan custom and its place in Jewish
            practice.

            Joe Zias wrote:
            >
            > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son
            > of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas
            > Unfortunately, religious fanatics were stoning us during the
            > excavation and we were eventually forced to abandon the excavation,
            > though we were fortunate to take the ossuaries to the museum for
            > examination. One interesting fact though glossed over by many is that
            > I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the excavator, found a coin in
            > situ in the palate of one of the woman in an ossuary. Seems she was
            > 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and in retrospect this
            > seems to have been for me personally, one of the more hypocritical
            > customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of the High
            > Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to David
            > Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I told
            > him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not
            > all that surprised.
            >
            > Joe
            >



















            ++++++

            Jim West, ThD

            http://jwest.wordpress.com - Blog
            http://sites.google.com/site/biblicalstudiesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources
          • Jack Kilmon
            There seems to be an assumption, not in evidence, that ossilegium had something to do with resurrection expectation. I don t think so myself, otherwise the
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
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              There seems to be an assumption, not in evidence, that ossilegium had
              something to do with resurrection expectation. I don't think so myself,
              otherwise the HP, the chief, top dog, honcho Sadducee, would not have been
              bone-boxed. The grandaughter of the High Priest Theophilos was buried in
              Rahmani 871 which suggests to me that Theophilos was also bone-boxed in
              whatever tomb 871 originated. Interesting about the woman. There is
              evidence that some women in late second temple times still maintained
              Asherah statuettes...maybe for fertility. Joe, do you think that women,
              generally "outsiders" at the Beyt Yahweh, had a tendency to do their "own
              thing?" Of course, since the deceased could not have placed the coin in her
              own mouth, I wonder if it was one of the "bone-gatherers."

              The sloppiness and quasi-literate scribbles often found on ossuaries,
              including the wealthy Caiaphas, lead me to believe that neither family
              members or othe Jews actually gathered the bones themselves...purity
              issues...and there may have been a class of non-Jews who performed this
              service, for a fee.

              There's a great story for a novel. A Greek bone-gatherer falls in love with
              the daughter of the High Priest and secretly places her ferry fare across
              the styx in her mouth.

              Jack


              Jack Kilmon
              San Antonio, TX


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
              To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:28 AM
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas


              > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son of
              > ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas Unfortunately,
              > religious fanatics were stoning us during the excavation and we were
              > eventually forced to abandon the excavation, though we were fortunate to
              > take the ossuaries to the museum for examination. One interesting fact
              > though glossed over by many is that I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the
              > excavator, found a coin in situ in the palate of one of the woman in an
              > ossuary. Seems she was 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and
              > in retrospect this seems to have been for me personally, one of the more
              > hypocritical customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of
              > the High Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to
              > David Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I
              > told him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not
              > all that surprised.
              >
              > Joe
              >
              > Joe Zias www.joezias.com
              > Anthropology/Paleopathology
              >
              > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
              > Jerusalem, Israel
              >
              > --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
              > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
              > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus
              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:38 AM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi George:
              >
              >
              >
              > Yes, we do have Caiphas' ossuary and the inscription on it is YHWSF BR
              > QYF)
              >
              > and not the Greek form of his name (I think Joe Zias examined the skeletal
              >
              > remains). That is why I was wondering if xxbn may be part of the
              > semitized
              >
              > name of one of the many Greek names used for the HPs. I can't speak for
              >
              > Robert and I believe he is a member here, but I am sure he meant that the
              > BN
              >
              > as a suffix could be a possibility that requires closer examination of the
              >
              > damaged margin between the broken edge of the sarc lid and the BN that
              >
              > appears to show up on the photos. I see what looks like an incised mark
              >
              > over and slightly to the right of the Beyt.
              >
              >
              >
              > I am sure that HPs like Theophilos, i.e., had Hebrew/Aramaic names in
              >
              > addition to their Greek names (even though this HPs name on his
              >
              > grandaughter' s ossuary is transliterated Greek to Hebrew). Hopefully in
              >
              > this ongoing excavation they will find other shards of this sarcophagus.
              >
              >
              >
              > The more I study the inscription from a paleographic standpoint, the more
              > I
              >
              > think it is late Hasmonean... .but this is part of an amateur's fun with
              > new
              >
              > epigraphic discoveries.
              >
              >
              >
              > Jack
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              >
              > From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel@yahoo. com>
              >
              > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
              >
              > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:13 PM
              >
              > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus
              >
              >
              >
              >> If you are suggesting xxBN HKHN HGDL then none of the names suggested in
              >
              >> the article as being high priests of this period would end with BN. It
              >
              >> would then likely require a different time frame (which may not be a
              >
              >> problem since I am not aware of how well-established this time frame
              >> might
              >
              >> be). I note that Caiphas is included. Do we not already have an ossuary
              >
              >> attributed to him?
              >
              >>
              >
              >> george
              >
              >> gfsomsel
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >> . search for truth, hear truth,
              >
              >> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              >
              >> defend the truth till death.
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >> - Jan Hus
              >
              >> _________
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >> ----- Original Message ----
              >
              >> From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
              >
              >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
              >
              >> Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 4:14:39 PM
              >
              >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >> No, I noted that an excellent epigrapher suggested it...I was refering to
              >
              >> Robert, of course since he is one of the best. His books have sure taught
              >
              >> me a lot. Since the text is in Hebrew I suspect that if the -BN is the
              >
              >> suffix of a name, as Robert suggests, it may be the Semitic version of
              >> one
              >
              >> of the many Greek names used.
              >
              >>
              >
              >> Regards,
              >
              >>
              >
              >> Jack Kilmon
              >
              >>
              >
              >> ----- Original Message -----
              >
              >> From: "Christopher Conlan" <chris_conlan@ yahoo.co. uk>
              >
              >> To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
              >
              >> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:57 PM
              >
              >> Subject: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus
              >
              >>
              >
              >>>I am fairly certain that Jack Kilmon raised this possibility earlier
              >
              >>> today, and noted that there are no known High Priests whose name ends
              >
              >>> <...>bn - that would seem like a real problem with this theory.
              >
              >>>
              >
              >>> I guess that the value of the piece would be significantly higher if
              >
              >>> it is the sarcophagus of a "known" High Priest, than if it is the
              >
              >>> sarcophagus of the son of an unknown High Priest...
              >
              >>>
              >
              >>> Christopher Conlan
              >
              >>> Washington, DC
              >
              >>>
              >
              >>> --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "Robert Deutsch" <mail@...> wrote:
              >
              >>>>
              >
              >>>> Dear list members,
              >
              >>>>
              >
              >>>> The interpretation of the inscription make no sense !
              >
              >>>> Can a certain person be the son of an anonymous High Priest ?
              >
              >>>>
              >
              >>>> As the right side of the fragment is damaged and the surface
              >
              >>>> before the first visible letter is missing, I will suggest a
              >
              >>>> different reading:
              >
              >>>>
              >
              >>>> [....]bn the High Priest
              >
              >>>> Where the "...bn" is the suffix of a personal name.
              >
              >>>>
              >
              >>>> This means that the sarcophagus belongs to a named High Priest
              >
              >>>> and not to a son of an anonymous High Priest.
              >
              >>>>
              >
              >>>> Robert Deutsch
              >
              >> .
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >
              >>
              >
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Joe Zias
              Jim West wrote I d like to hear more about this pagan custom (coins in the mouth after death)  and its place in Jewish practice. I ve never seen any research
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
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                Jim West wrote

                I'd like to hear more about this pagan custom (coins in the mouth after death)  and its place in Jewish practice.
                I've never seen any research on this topic however from time to time we would find small coins in Jewish tombs and in one occasion (Jericho/ Smith-Hachlili) inside the cranium. The latter case received quite a bit of unwarranted attention by the pro-Turin Shroud folks as they claimed that they could see coins  from none other than Pontius Pilatus  on the shroud and 'as by custom they were placed on the eyes of the decease prior to burial.' This was never a Jewish custom in antiquity and placing the coins of the person responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus sounds more like Monty Python than anything else. They were not amused.
                When coins were found in Jewish tombs we always, prior to this find' believed that they simply fell out of someone's pocket in times of burial however these two specific cases, one in particular stuck to the palate of the woman, argue for a folk belief amongst some Jews that when death comes it just may not hurt to place a coin in the mouth of the deceased to help him/her to pay the boatman in order to cross the river Styx. I wouldn't call it a custom, more like abherent folk behavior  in  times of death.

                Joe Zias

                >

                > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son

                > of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas

                > Unfortunately, religious fanatics were stoning us during the

                > excavation and we were eventually forced to abandon the excavation,

                > though we were fortunate to take the ossuaries to the museum for

                > examination. One interesting fact though glossed over by many is that

                > I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the excavator, found a coin in

                > situ in the palate of one of the woman in an ossuary. Seems she was

                > 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and in retrospect this

                > seems to have been for me personally, one of the more hypocritical

                > customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of the High

                > Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to David

                > Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I told

                > him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not

                > all that surprised.

                >

                > Joe

                >



                ++++++



                Jim West, ThD



                http://jwest. wordpress. com - Blog

                http://sites. google.com/ site/biblicalstu diesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources


























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Antonio Lombatti
                ... Over more then 3000 Jewish tombs in the timeframe II BC - I AD have been excavated, coins are a rare occurrence. Only a scattering of coins have been found
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Il giorno 09/ott/08, alle ore 19:21, Jim West ha scritto:

                  > > I'd like to hear more about this pagan custom and its place in
                  > Jewish
                  > > practice.
                  >



                  Over more then 3000 Jewish tombs in the timeframe II BC - I AD have
                  been excavated, coins are a rare occurrence. Only a scattering of
                  coins have been found in various Jerusalem, Ein Gedi, Bet She'arim,
                  and Jericho tombs and most of them not in situ. Usually they are not
                  related to the dead people buried there. In rare occasions coins were
                  found near the skulls, and on two occasions inside the skulls.
                  However, these skulls were fragmentary so it's not that easy to say if
                  the coins were originally near or on the skull.

                  The explanation is quite easy: as Jews were often influenced by the
                  surrounding Hellenistic culture, on occasions they adopted Hellenistic
                  practices and customs. This is probably a payment for Charon -
                  Charon's obol - for ferrying the deceased across the river Styx. In
                  Beth She'arim tombs a carving of a Charon's boat was even spotten on
                  the limestone.

                  Antonio Lombatti


                  ----------------------------------
                  http://www.antoniolombatti.it








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stern, Richard H.
                  In blaming this on the wives (harking back to the women who reviled Jeremiah in Egypt about how well off they were until his lot made them stop paying respect
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
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                    In blaming this on the wives (harking back to the women who reviled Jeremiah in Egypt about how well off they were until his lot made them stop paying respect to Asherah), you should take into account that many or most of these wives were themselves the daughters of kohanim, given the custom of making sure of the propriety of wife lineage by marrying the daughter of a kohen (or at least a levite). Doesn't that make it more improbable that priests' wives were backsliders? As for the Greek bone gatherer, why should he care?

                    =====================================
                    Best regards.

                    Richard H. Stern
                    rstern@... rstern@...
                    Washington, DC 20036
                    http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/claw/rhs1.htm
                    =====================================
                    NOTICE: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately via reply e-mail, and then destroy all instances of this communication. Thank you.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias
                    Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:00 PM
                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas

                    Jim West wrote

                    I'd like to hear more about this pagan custom (coins in the mouth after death)  and its place in Jewish practice.
                    I've never seen any research on this topic however from time to time we would find small coins in Jewish tombs and in one occasion (Jericho/ Smith-Hachlili) inside the cranium. The latter case received quite a bit of unwarranted attention by the pro-Turin Shroud folks as they claimed that they could see coins  from none other than Pontius Pilatus  on the shroud and 'as by custom they were placed on the eyes of the decease prior to burial.' This was never a Jewish custom in antiquity and placing the coins of the person responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus sounds more like Monty Python than anything else. They were not amused.
                    When coins were found in Jewish tombs we always, prior to this find' believed that they simply fell out of someone's pocket in times of burial however these two specific cases, one in particular stuck to the palate of the woman, argue for a folk belief amongst some Jews that when death comes it just may not hurt to place a coin in the mouth of the deceased to help him/her to pay the boatman in order to cross the river Styx. I wouldn't call it a custom, more like abherent folk behavior  in  times of death.


                    Joe Zias

                    >

                    > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son

                    > of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas

                    > Unfortunately, religious fanatics were stoning us during the

                    > excavation and we were eventually forced to abandon the excavation,

                    > though we were fortunate to take the ossuaries to the museum for

                    > examination. One interesting fact though glossed over by many is that

                    > I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the excavator, found a coin in

                    > situ in the palate of one of the woman in an ossuary. Seems she was

                    > 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and in retrospect this

                    > seems to have been for me personally, one of the more hypocritical

                    > customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of the High

                    > Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to David

                    > Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I told

                    > him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not

                    > all that surprised.

                    >

                    > Joe

                    >



                    ++++++



                    Jim West, ThD



                    http://jwest. wordpress. com - Blog

                    http://sites. google.com/ site/biblicalstu diesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources


























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Jim West
                    Is there a photo of this tomb online? ... ++++++ Jim West, ThD http://jwest.wordpress.com - Blog http://sites.google.com/site/biblicalstudiesresources/ -
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Is there a photo of this tomb online?

                      Antonio Lombatti wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > The explanation is quite easy: as Jews were often influenced by the
                      > surrounding Hellenistic culture, on occasions they adopted Hellenistic
                      > practices and customs. This is probably a payment for Charon -
                      > Charon's obol - for ferrying the deceased across the river Styx. In
                      > Beth She'arim tombs a carving of a Charon's boat was even spotten on
                      > the limestone.
                      >
                      > Antonio Lombatti
                      >











                      ++++++

                      Jim West, ThD

                      http://jwest.wordpress.com - Blog
                      http://sites.google.com/site/biblicalstudiesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources
                    • Joe Zias
                      Dealing with all the theological issues surround ossuaries is not my area of expertise, L.Y. Rahmani and Eric Meyers are still in my opinion the last word of
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
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                        Dealing with all the theological issues surround ossuaries is not my area of expertise, L.Y. Rahmani and Eric Meyers are still in my opinion the 'last word' of the custom. One thing however is clear and that is the coin was not placed there by the 'bone gatherers' but was placed there at time of death as it had adhered to her palate. Once the flesh had decayed after one year the coin would not have adhered.
                        Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                        Anthropology/Paleopathology

                        Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                        Jerusalem, Israel

                        --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                        From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas
                        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 1:56 PM











                        There seems to be an assumption, not in evidence, that ossilegium had

                        something to do with resurrection expectation. I don't think so myself,

                        otherwise the HP, the chief, top dog, honcho Sadducee, would not have been

                        bone-boxed. The grandaughter of the High Priest Theophilos was buried in

                        Rahmani 871 which suggests to me that Theophilos was also bone-boxed in

                        whatever tomb 871 originated. Interesting about the woman. There is

                        evidence that some women in late second temple times still maintained

                        Asherah statuettes.. .maybe for fertility. Joe, do you think that women,

                        generally "outsiders" at the Beyt Yahweh, had a tendency to do their "own

                        thing?" Of course, since the deceased could not have placed the coin in her

                        own mouth, I wonder if it was one of the "bone-gatherers. "



                        The sloppiness and quasi-literate scribbles often found on ossuaries,

                        including the wealthy Caiaphas, lead me to believe that neither family

                        members or othe Jews actually gathered the bones themselves.. .purity

                        issues...and there may have been a class of non-Jews who performed this

                        service, for a fee.



                        There's a great story for a novel. A Greek bone-gatherer falls in love with

                        the daughter of the High Priest and secretly places her ferry fare across

                        the styx in her mouth.



                        Jack



                        Jack Kilmon

                        San Antonio, TX



                        ----- Original Message -----

                        From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@yahoo. com>

                        To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

                        Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:28 AM

                        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



                        > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son of

                        > ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas Unfortunately,

                        > religious fanatics were stoning us during the excavation and we were

                        > eventually forced to abandon the excavation, though we were fortunate to

                        > take the ossuaries to the museum for examination. One interesting fact

                        > though glossed over by many is that I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the

                        > excavator, found a coin in situ in the palate of one of the woman in an

                        > ossuary. Seems she was 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and

                        > in retrospect this seems to have been for me personally, one of the more

                        > hypocritical customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of

                        > the High Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to

                        > David Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I

                        > told him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not

                        > all that surprised.

                        >

                        > Joe

                        >

                        > Joe Zias www.joezias. com

                        > Anthropology/ Paleopathology

                        >

                        > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem

                        > Jerusalem, Israel

                        >

                        > --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:

                        > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

                        > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

                        > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                        > Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:38 AM

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Hi George:

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Yes, we do have Caiphas' ossuary and the inscription on it is YHWSF BR

                        > QYF)

                        >

                        > and not the Greek form of his name (I think Joe Zias examined the skeletal

                        >

                        > remains). That is why I was wondering if xxbn may be part of the

                        > semitized

                        >

                        > name of one of the many Greek names used for the HPs. I can't speak for

                        >

                        > Robert and I believe he is a member here, but I am sure he meant that the

                        > BN

                        >

                        > as a suffix could be a possibility that requires closer examination of the

                        >

                        > damaged margin between the broken edge of the sarc lid and the BN that

                        >

                        > appears to show up on the photos. I see what looks like an incised mark

                        >

                        > over and slightly to the right of the Beyt.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > I am sure that HPs like Theophilos, i.e., had Hebrew/Aramaic names in

                        >

                        > addition to their Greek names (even though this HPs name on his

                        >

                        > grandaughter' s ossuary is transliterated Greek to Hebrew). Hopefully in

                        >

                        > this ongoing excavation they will find other shards of this sarcophagus.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > The more I study the inscription from a paleographic standpoint, the more

                        > I

                        >

                        > think it is late Hasmonean... .but this is part of an amateur's fun with

                        > new

                        >

                        > epigraphic discoveries.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Jack

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > ----- Original Message -----

                        >

                        > From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel@yahoo. com>

                        >

                        > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

                        >

                        > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:13 PM

                        >

                        > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >> If you are suggesting xxBN HKHN HGDL then none of the names suggested in

                        >

                        >> the article as being high priests of this period would end with BN. It

                        >

                        >> would then likely require a different time frame (which may not be a

                        >

                        >> problem since I am not aware of how well-established this time frame

                        >> might

                        >

                        >> be). I note that Caiphas is included. Do we not already have an ossuary

                        >

                        >> attributed to him?

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> george

                        >

                        >> gfsomsel

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> . search for truth, hear truth,

                        >

                        >> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,

                        >

                        >> defend the truth till death.

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> - Jan Hus

                        >

                        >> _________

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> ----- Original Message ----

                        >

                        >> From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

                        >

                        >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                        >

                        >> Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 4:14:39 PM

                        >

                        >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> No, I noted that an excellent epigrapher suggested it...I was refering to

                        >

                        >> Robert, of course since he is one of the best. His books have sure taught

                        >

                        >> me a lot. Since the text is in Hebrew I suspect that if the -BN is the

                        >

                        >> suffix of a name, as Robert suggests, it may be the Semitic version of

                        >> one

                        >

                        >> of the many Greek names used.

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> Regards,

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> Jack Kilmon

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> ----- Original Message -----

                        >

                        >> From: "Christopher Conlan" <chris_conlan@ yahoo.co. uk>

                        >

                        >> To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

                        >

                        >> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:57 PM

                        >

                        >> Subject: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>>I am fairly certain that Jack Kilmon raised this possibility earlier

                        >

                        >>> today, and noted that there are no known High Priests whose name ends

                        >

                        >>> <...>bn - that would seem like a real problem with this theory.

                        >

                        >>>

                        >

                        >>> I guess that the value of the piece would be significantly higher if

                        >

                        >>> it is the sarcophagus of a "known" High Priest, than if it is the

                        >

                        >>> sarcophagus of the son of an unknown High Priest...

                        >

                        >>>

                        >

                        >>> Christopher Conlan

                        >

                        >>> Washington, DC

                        >

                        >>>

                        >

                        >>> --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "Robert Deutsch" <mail@...> wrote:

                        >

                        >>>>

                        >

                        >>>> Dear list members,

                        >

                        >>>>

                        >

                        >>>> The interpretation of the inscription make no sense !

                        >

                        >>>> Can a certain person be the son of an anonymous High Priest ?

                        >

                        >>>>

                        >

                        >>>> As the right side of the fragment is damaged and the surface

                        >

                        >>>> before the first visible letter is missing, I will suggest a

                        >

                        >>>> different reading:

                        >

                        >>>>

                        >

                        >>>> [....]bn the High Priest

                        >

                        >>>> Where the "...bn" is the suffix of a personal name.

                        >

                        >>>>

                        >

                        >>>> This means that the sarcophagus belongs to a named High Priest

                        >

                        >>>> and not to a son of an anonymous High Priest.

                        >

                        >>>>

                        >

                        >>>> Robert Deutsch

                        >

                        >> .

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> ------------ --------- --------- ------

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >>

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        >

                        >

                        > ------------ --------- --------- ------

                        >

                        > Yahoo! Groups Links

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >


























                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Joe Zias
                        One can find a photo of one of the ossuaries on line, however I was unable to take a photograph of the coin in situ, due to the continual harassment occurring
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
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                          One can find a photo of one of the ossuaries on line, however I was unable to take a photograph of the coin in situ, due to the continual harassment occurring above us. Police would arrive, arrest a few and a few minutes later, another group of yeshiva students would appear and stone us.  In the end they won. The find was publ. by Ronnie Reich and I publ the anthro. report along with it. The number of sub-adults in the tomb 68% was the highest ever recorded for the period where 50 % is the norm.

                          Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                          Anthropology/Paleopathology

                          Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                          Jerusalem, Israel

                          --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jim West <jwest@...> wrote:
                          From: Jim West <jwest@...>
                          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas
                          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 2:35 PM











                          Is there a photo of this tomb online?



                          Antonio Lombatti wrote:

                          >

                          >

                          > The explanation is quite easy: as Jews were often influenced by the

                          > surrounding Hellenistic culture, on occasions they adopted Hellenistic

                          > practices and customs. This is probably a payment for Charon -

                          > Charon's obol - for ferrying the deceased across the river Styx. In

                          > Beth She'arim tombs a carving of a Charon's boat was even spotten on

                          > the limestone.

                          >

                          > Antonio Lombatti

                          >



                          ++++++



                          Jim West, ThD



                          http://jwest. wordpress. com - Blog

                          http://sites. google.com/ site/biblicalstu diesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources


























                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Joe Zias
                          As for marriage custom I think that you are confusing this with the Islamic custom of marrying within the extended family whereas this was not a Jewish custom
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            As for marriage custom I think that you are confusing this with the Islamic custom of marrying within the extended family whereas this was not a Jewish custom and those gathering the remains for re-internment a year later were Jews and not Greeks.
                            Joe
                            Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                            Anthropology/Paleopathology

                            Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                            Jerusalem, Israel

                            --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@...> wrote:
                            From: Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@...>
                            Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas
                            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 2:18 PM











                            In blaming this on the wives (harking back to the women who reviled Jeremiah in Egypt about how well off they were until his lot made them stop paying respect to Asherah), you should take into account that many or most of these wives were themselves the daughters of kohanim, given the custom of making sure of the propriety of wife lineage by marrying the daughter of a kohen (or at least a levite). Doesn't that make it more improbable that priests' wives were backsliders? As for the Greek bone gatherer, why should he care?



                            ============ ========= ========= =======

                            Best regards.



                            Richard H. Stern

                            rstern@computer. org rstern@khhte. com

                            Washington, DC 20036

                            http://docs. law.gwu.edu/ facweb/claw/ rhs1.htm

                            ============ ========= ========= =======

                            NOTICE: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately via reply e-mail, and then destroy all instances of this communication. Thank you.



                            -----Original Message-----

                            From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias

                            Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:00 PM

                            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



                            Jim West wrote



                            I'd like to hear more about this pagan custom (coins in the mouth after death)  and its place in Jewish practice.

                            I've never seen any research on this topic however from time to time we would find small coins in Jewish tombs and in one occasion (Jericho/ Smith-Hachlili) inside the cranium. The latter case received quite a bit of unwarranted attention by the pro-Turin Shroud folks as they claimed that they could see coins  from none other than Pontius Pilatus  on the shroud and 'as by custom they were placed on the eyes of the decease prior to burial.' This was never a Jewish custom in antiquity and placing the coins of the person responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus sounds more like Monty Python than anything else. They were not amused.

                            When coins were found in Jewish tombs we always, prior to this find' believed that they simply fell out of someone's pocket in times of burial however these two specific cases, one in particular stuck to the palate of the woman, argue for a folk belief amongst some Jews that when death comes it just may not hurt to place a coin in the mouth of the deceased to help him/her to pay the boatman in order to cross the river Styx. I wouldn't call it a custom, more like abherent folk behavior  in  times of death.



                            Joe Zias



                            >



                            > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son



                            > of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas



                            > Unfortunately, religious fanatics were stoning us during the



                            > excavation and we were eventually forced to abandon the excavation,



                            > though we were fortunate to take the ossuaries to the museum for



                            > examination. One interesting fact though glossed over by many is that



                            > I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the excavator, found a coin in



                            > situ in the palate of one of the woman in an ossuary. Seems she was



                            > 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and in retrospect this



                            > seems to have been for me personally, one of the more hypocritical



                            > customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of the High



                            > Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to David



                            > Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I told



                            > him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not



                            > all that surprised.



                            >



                            > Joe



                            >



                            ++++++



                            Jim West, ThD



                            http://jwest. wordpress. com - Blog



                            http://sites. google.com/ site/biblicalstu diesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            ------------ --------- --------- ------



                            Yahoo! Groups Links


























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Antonio Lombatti
                            ... Not that I m aware of. Ships symbolize journeys and they were often associated to death in many cultures. When ossilegium was practiced, death was viewed
                            Message 13 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Il giorno 09/ott/08, alle ore 20:35, Jim West ha scritto:

                              > > Is there a photo of this tomb online?
                              >


                              Not that I'm aware of. Ships symbolize journeys and they were often
                              associated to death in many cultures. When ossilegium was practiced,
                              death was viewed as the beginning of an extented process with death
                              being complete only when flesh was fully decayed. Ships appeared in
                              funerary art already at the end of VIII cent. BC at Hurvat Loya, and
                              some other graffiti were discovered on the walls of Jason's tomb.

                              Jim, I have the drawings and photos of those "funerary
                              ships" (somewhere in my home library or on-under-near my writing
                              desk...) just in case you want to see them.

                              Two outstanding papers on Jewish burial customs related to coins found
                              in Second Temple burial caves are the following:

                              R. HACHLILI - A. KILLEBREW, "Jewish funerary customs during Second
                              Temple period in light of the excavations at the Jericho necropolis".
                              Palestine Exploration Quarterly 115 (1983): 109-132

                              R. HACHLILI - A. KILLEBREW, "Was the coin-on-the-eye custom a Jewish
                              burial practice in the Second Temple period?". Biblical Archaeologist
                              46 (1983): 147-153.

                              And the second one is the one I like most, since it (partly) debunks
                              Turin Shroud pseudoscience...

                              Antonio Lombatti

                              ----------------------------------
                              http://www.antoniolombatti.it








                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jim West
                              Yes, I think I would. ... ++++++ Jim West, ThD http://jwest.wordpress.com - Blog http://sites.google.com/site/biblicalstudiesresources/ - Biblical Studies
                              Message 14 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Yes, I think I would.

                                Antonio Lombatti wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Jim, I have the drawings and photos of those "funerary
                                > ships" (somewhere in my home library or on-under-near my writing
                                > desk...) just in case you want to see them.
                                >





                                ++++++

                                Jim West, ThD

                                http://jwest.wordpress.com - Blog
                                http://sites.google.com/site/biblicalstudiesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources
                              • Stern, Richard H.
                                Joe, the marriage custom I referred to was strictly kosher not Islamic. In the first century, it was common for kohanim to marry daughters of kohanim (or
                                Message 15 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Joe, the marriage custom I referred to was strictly kosher not Islamic.
                                  In the first century, it was common for kohanim to marry daughters of kohanim (or levites) because their father and mother had already had their pedigrees certified for 3 generations, making it unnecessary to review that of their daughters. (The 3 generation rule is discussed extensively in Jeremias, Jerusalem at the Time of Jesus, along with other descent purity rules.)
                                  By marrying the daughter of a kohen, a kohen could be sure of two things: (1) the wife had been brought up in a household that made her already familiar with domestic rules governing kohanim; (2) her descent on both sides for 3 generations had already been investigated and ok'd (at the time of the marriage of her father and his enrollment as a kohen). This descent status corresponds to what Ashkenazim used to term a "double koin" and considered to be desirable for unexplained reasons. (You don't see many of them any more. I have known only one.)

                                  =====================================
                                  Best regards.

                                  Richard H. Stern
                                  rstern@... rstern@...
                                  http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/claw/rhs1.htm
                                  =====================================

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias
                                  Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:51 PM
                                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas

                                  As for marriage custom I think that you are confusing this with the Islamic custom of marrying within the extended family whereas this was not a Jewish custom and those gathering the remains for re-internment a year later were Jews and not Greeks.
                                  Joe
                                  Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                                  Anthropology/Paleopathology

                                  Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                                  Jerusalem, Israel

                                  --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@...> wrote:
                                  From: Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas
                                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 2:18 PM











                                  In blaming this on the wives (harking back to the women who reviled Jeremiah in Egypt about how well off they were until his lot made them stop paying respect to Asherah), you should take into account that many or most of these wives were themselves the daughters of kohanim, given the custom of making sure of the propriety of wife lineage by marrying the daughter of a kohen (or at least a levite). Doesn't that make it more improbable that priests' wives were backsliders? As for the Greek bone gatherer, why should he care?



                                  ============ ========= ========= =======

                                  Best regards.



                                  Richard H. Stern

                                  rstern@computer. org rstern@khhte. com

                                  Washington, DC 20036

                                  http://docs. law.gwu.edu/ facweb/claw/ rhs1.htm

                                  ============ ========= ========= =======

                                  NOTICE: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately via reply e-mail, and then destroy all instances of this communication. Thank you.



                                  -----Original Message-----

                                  From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias

                                  Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:00 PM

                                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



                                  Jim West wrote



                                  I'd like to hear more about this pagan custom (coins in the mouth after death)  and its place in Jewish practice.

                                  I've never seen any research on this topic however from time to time we would find small coins in Jewish tombs and in one occasion (Jericho/ Smith-Hachlili) inside the cranium. The latter case received quite a bit of unwarranted attention by the pro-Turin Shroud folks as they claimed that they could see coins  from none other than Pontius Pilatus  on the shroud and 'as by custom they were placed on the eyes of the decease prior to burial.' This was never a Jewish custom in antiquity and placing the coins of the person responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus sounds more like Monty Python than anything else. They were not amused.

                                  When coins were found in Jewish tombs we always, prior to this find' believed that they simply fell out of someone's pocket in times of burial however these two specific cases, one in particular stuck to the palate of the woman, argue for a folk belief amongst some Jews that when death comes it just may not hurt to place a coin in the mouth of the deceased to help him/her to pay the boatman in order to cross the river Styx. I wouldn't call it a custom, more like abherent folk behavior  in  times of death.




                                  Joe Zias



                                  >



                                  > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son



                                  > of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas



                                  > Unfortunately, religious fanatics were stoning us during the



                                  > excavation and we were eventually forced to abandon the excavation,



                                  > though we were fortunate to take the ossuaries to the museum for



                                  > examination. One interesting fact though glossed over by many is that



                                  > I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the excavator, found a coin in



                                  > situ in the palate of one of the woman in an ossuary. Seems she was



                                  > 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and in retrospect this



                                  > seems to have been for me personally, one of the more hypocritical



                                  > customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of the High



                                  > Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to David



                                  > Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I told



                                  > him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not



                                  > all that surprised.



                                  >



                                  > Joe



                                  >



                                  ++++++



                                  Jim West, ThD



                                  http://jwest. wordpress. com - Blog



                                  http://sites. google.com/ site/biblicalstu diesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources























                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  ------------ --------- --------- ------



                                  Yahoo! Groups Links


























                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                  ------------------------------------

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                • Joe Zias
                                  Friends always regard me as RC or religiously challenged and after reading your posting I see that they were right. thanks for the info. Any breakdown on
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Friends always regard me as RC or 'religiously challenged' and after reading your posting I see that they were right. thanks for the info. Any breakdown on percentages of Levites and Cohenim vs the Israelites ?
                                    Joe

                                    Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                                    Anthropology/Paleopathology

                                    Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                                    Jerusalem, Israel

                                    --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@...> wrote:
                                    From: Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas
                                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 3:20 PM











                                    Joe, the marriage custom I referred to was strictly kosher not Islamic.

                                    In the first century, it was common for kohanim to marry daughters of kohanim (or levites) because their father and mother had already had their pedigrees certified for 3 generations, making it unnecessary to review that of their daughters. (The 3 generation rule is discussed extensively in Jeremias, Jerusalem at the Time of Jesus, along with other descent purity rules.)

                                    By marrying the daughter of a kohen, a kohen could be sure of two things: (1) the wife had been brought up in a household that made her already familiar with domestic rules governing kohanim; (2) her descent on both sides for 3 generations had already been investigated and ok'd (at the time of the marriage of her father and his enrollment as a kohen). This descent status corresponds to what Ashkenazim used to term a "double koin" and considered to be desirable for unexplained reasons. (You don't see many of them any more. I have known only one.)



                                    ============ ========= ========= =======

                                    Best regards.



                                    Richard H. Stern

                                    rstern@computer. org rstern@khhte. com

                                    http://docs. law.gwu.edu/ facweb/claw/ rhs1.htm

                                    ============ ========= ========= =======



                                    -----Original Message-----

                                    From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias

                                    Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:51 PM

                                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                                    Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



                                    As for marriage custom I think that you are confusing this with the Islamic custom of marrying within the extended family whereas this was not a Jewish custom and those gathering the remains for re-internment a year later were Jews and not Greeks.

                                    Joe

                                    Joe Zias www.joezias. com

                                    Anthropology/ Paleopathology



                                    Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem

                                    Jerusalem, Israel



                                    --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@KHHTE. com> wrote:

                                    From: Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@KHHTE. com>

                                    Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas

                                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                                    Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 2:18 PM



                                    In blaming this on the wives (harking back to the women who reviled Jeremiah in Egypt about how well off they were until his lot made them stop paying respect to Asherah), you should take into account that many or most of these wives were themselves the daughters of kohanim, given the custom of making sure of the propriety of wife lineage by marrying the daughter of a kohen (or at least a levite). Doesn't that make it more improbable that priests' wives were backsliders? As for the Greek bone gatherer, why should he care?



                                    ============ ========= ========= =======



                                    Best regards.



                                    Richard H. Stern



                                    rstern@computer. org rstern@khhte. com



                                    Washington, DC 20036



                                    http://docs. law.gwu.edu/ facweb/claw/ rhs1.htm



                                    ============ ========= ========= =======



                                    NOTICE: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately via reply e-mail, and then destroy all instances of this communication. Thank you.



                                    -----Original Message-----



                                    From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE- 2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias



                                    Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:00 PM



                                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com



                                    Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



                                    Jim West wrote



                                    I'd like to hear more about this pagan custom (coins in the mouth after death)  and its place in Jewish practice.



                                    I've never seen any research on this topic however from time to time we would find small coins in Jewish tombs and in one occasion (Jericho/ Smith-Hachlili) inside the cranium. The latter case received quite a bit of unwarranted attention by the pro-Turin Shroud folks as they claimed that they could see coins  from none other than Pontius Pilatus  on the shroud and 'as by custom they were placed on the eyes of the decease prior to burial.' This was never a Jewish custom in antiquity and placing the coins of the person responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus sounds more like Monty Python than anything else. They were not amused.



                                    When coins were found in Jewish tombs we always, prior to this find' believed that they simply fell out of someone's pocket in times of burial however these two specific cases, one in particular stuck to the palate of the woman, argue for a folk belief amongst some Jews that when death comes it just may not hurt to place a coin in the mouth of the deceased to help him/her to pay the boatman in order to cross the river Styx. I wouldn't call it a custom, more like abherent folk behavior  in  times of death.



                                    Joe Zias



                                    >



                                    > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son



                                    > of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas



                                    > Unfortunately, religious fanatics were stoning us during the



                                    > excavation and we were eventually forced to abandon the excavation,



                                    > though we were fortunate to take the ossuaries to the museum for



                                    > examination. One interesting fact though glossed over by many is that



                                    > I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the excavator, found a coin in



                                    > situ in the palate of one of the woman in an ossuary. Seems she was



                                    > 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and in retrospect this



                                    > seems to have been for me personally, one of the more hypocritical



                                    > customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of the High



                                    > Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to David



                                    > Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I told



                                    > him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not



                                    > all that surprised.



                                    >



                                    > Joe



                                    >



                                    ++++++



                                    Jim West, ThD



                                    http://jwest. wordpress. com - Blog



                                    http://sites. google.com/ site/biblicalstu diesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources































                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                    ------------ --------- --------- ------



                                    Yahoo! Groups Links























                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                    ------------ --------- --------- ------



                                    Yahoo! Groups Links


























                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jack Kilmon
                                    The Caiaphas family tomb? I would bet that Joe Zias has some. Jack Jack Kilmon San Antonio, TX ... From: Jim West To:
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      The Caiaphas family tomb? I would bet that Joe Zias has some.

                                      Jack


                                      Jack Kilmon
                                      San Antonio, TX


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Jim West" <jwest@...>
                                      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:35 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas


                                      > Is there a photo of this tomb online?
                                      >
                                      > Antonio Lombatti wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> The explanation is quite easy: as Jews were often influenced by the
                                      >> surrounding Hellenistic culture, on occasions they adopted Hellenistic
                                      >> practices and customs. This is probably a payment for Charon -
                                      >> Charon's obol - for ferrying the deceased across the river Styx. In
                                      >> Beth She'arim tombs a carving of a Charon's boat was even spotten on
                                      >> the limestone.
                                      >>
                                      >> Antonio Lombatti
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ++++++
                                      >
                                      > Jim West, ThD
                                      >
                                      > http://jwest.wordpress.com - Blog
                                      > http://sites.google.com/site/biblicalstudiesresources/ - Biblical
                                      > Studies Resources
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Stern, Richard H.
                                      Breakdown-I think something on the order of 5-10%. ===================================== Best regards. Richard H. Stern rstern@computer.org rstern@khhte.com
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Breakdown-I think something on the order of 5-10%.

                                        =====================================
                                        Best regards.

                                        Richard H. Stern
                                        rstern@... rstern@...
                                        http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/claw/rhs1.htm
                                        =====================================

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias
                                        Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:30 PM
                                        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas

                                        Friends always regard me as RC or 'religiously challenged' and after reading your posting I see that they were right. thanks for the info. Any breakdown on percentages of Levites and Cohenim vs the Israelites ?
                                        Joe

                                        Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                                        Anthropology/Paleopathology

                                        Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                                        Jerusalem, Israel

                                        --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@...> wrote:
                                        From: Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@...>
                                        Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas
                                        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 3:20 PM











                                        Joe, the marriage custom I referred to was strictly kosher not Islamic.

                                        In the first century, it was common for kohanim to marry daughters of kohanim (or levites) because their father and mother had already had their pedigrees certified for 3 generations, making it unnecessary to review that of their daughters. (The 3 generation rule is discussed extensively in Jeremias, Jerusalem at the Time of Jesus, along with other descent purity rules.)

                                        By marrying the daughter of a kohen, a kohen could be sure of two things: (1) the wife had been brought up in a household that made her already familiar with domestic rules governing kohanim; (2) her descent on both sides for 3 generations had already been investigated and ok'd (at the time of the marriage of her father and his enrollment as a kohen). This descent status corresponds to what Ashkenazim used to term a "double koin" and considered to be desirable for unexplained reasons. (You don't see many of them any more. I have known only one.)



                                        ============ ========= ========= =======

                                        Best regards.



                                        Richard H. Stern

                                        rstern@computer. org rstern@khhte. com

                                        http://docs. law.gwu.edu/ facweb/claw/ rhs1.htm

                                        ============ ========= ========= =======



                                        -----Original Message-----

                                        From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias

                                        Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:51 PM

                                        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                                        Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



                                        As for marriage custom I think that you are confusing this with the Islamic custom of marrying within the extended family whereas this was not a Jewish custom and those gathering the remains for re-internment a year later were Jews and not Greeks.

                                        Joe

                                        Joe Zias www.joezias. com

                                        Anthropology/ Paleopathology



                                        Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem

                                        Jerusalem, Israel



                                        --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@KHHTE. com> wrote:

                                        From: Stern, Richard H. <RSTERN@KHHTE. com>

                                        Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas

                                        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

                                        Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 2:18 PM



                                        In blaming this on the wives (harking back to the women who reviled Jeremiah in Egypt about how well off they were until his lot made them stop paying respect to Asherah), you should take into account that many or most of these wives were themselves the daughters of kohanim, given the custom of making sure of the propriety of wife lineage by marrying the daughter of a kohen (or at least a levite). Doesn't that make it more improbable that priests' wives were backsliders? As for the Greek bone gatherer, why should he care?



                                        ============ ========= ========= =======



                                        Best regards.



                                        Richard H. Stern



                                        rstern@computer. org rstern@khhte. com



                                        Washington, DC 20036



                                        http://docs. law.gwu.edu/ facweb/claw/ rhs1.htm



                                        ============ ========= ========= =======



                                        NOTICE: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately via reply e-mail, and then destroy all instances of this communication. Thank you.



                                        -----Original Message-----



                                        From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE- 2@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Joe Zias



                                        Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 2:00 PM



                                        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com



                                        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



                                        Jim West wrote



                                        I'd like to hear more about this pagan custom (coins in the mouth after death)  and its place in Jewish practice.



                                        I've never seen any research on this topic however from time to time we would find small coins in Jewish tombs and in one occasion (Jericho/ Smith-Hachlili) inside the cranium. The latter case received quite a bit of unwarranted attention by the pro-Turin Shroud folks as they claimed that they could see coins  from none other than Pontius Pilatus  on the shroud and 'as by custom they were placed on the eyes of the decease prior to burial.' This was never a Jewish custom in antiquity and placing the coins of the person responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus sounds more like Monty Python than anything else. They were not amused.



                                        When coins were found in Jewish tombs we always, prior to this find' believed that they simply fell out of someone's pocket in times of burial however these two specific cases, one in particular stuck to the palate of the woman, argue for a folk belief amongst some Jews that when death comes it just may not hurt to place a coin in the mouth of the deceased to help him/her to pay the boatman in order to cross the river Styx. I wouldn't call it a custom, more like abherent folk behavior  in  times of death.




                                        Joe Zias



                                        >



                                        > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son



                                        > of ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas



                                        > Unfortunately, religious fanatics were stoning us during the



                                        > excavation and we were eventually forced to abandon the excavation,



                                        > though we were fortunate to take the ossuaries to the museum for



                                        > examination. One interesting fact though glossed over by many is that



                                        > I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the excavator, found a coin in



                                        > situ in the palate of one of the woman in an ossuary. Seems she was



                                        > 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and in retrospect this



                                        > seems to have been for me personally, one of the more hypocritical



                                        > customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of the High



                                        > Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to David



                                        > Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I told



                                        > him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not



                                        > all that surprised.



                                        >



                                        > Joe



                                        >



                                        ++++++



                                        Jim West, ThD



                                        http://jwest. wordpress. com - Blog



                                        http://sites. google.com/ site/biblicalstu diesresources/ - Biblical Studies Resources































                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                        ------------ --------- --------- ------



                                        Yahoo! Groups Links























                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                        ------------ --------- --------- ------



                                        Yahoo! Groups Links


























                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                        ------------------------------------

                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      • Joe Zias
                                        Photos, no I was too busy hiding and ducking the stones  thrown from above....A day or two later the site was in filled and there is nothing but a road there
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Oct 9, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Photos, no I was too busy hiding and ducking the stones  thrown from above....A day or two later the site was in filled and there is nothing but a road there today in what is called The Peace Forest' as it once was the No Mans Land between East and West Jerusalem.
                                          Joe

                                          Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                                          Anthropology/Paleopathology

                                          Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                                          Jerusalem, Israel

                                          --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                                          From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas
                                          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 3:32 PM











                                          The Caiaphas family tomb? I would bet that Joe Zias has some.



                                          Jack



                                          Jack Kilmon

                                          San Antonio, TX



                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                          From: "Jim West" <jwest@highland. net>

                                          To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

                                          Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:35 PM

                                          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



                                          > Is there a photo of this tomb online?

                                          >

                                          > Antonio Lombatti wrote:

                                          >>

                                          >>

                                          >> The explanation is quite easy: as Jews were often influenced by the

                                          >> surrounding Hellenistic culture, on occasions they adopted Hellenistic

                                          >> practices and customs. This is probably a payment for Charon -

                                          >> Charon's obol - for ferrying the deceased across the river Styx. In

                                          >> Beth She'arim tombs a carving of a Charon's boat was even spotten on

                                          >> the limestone.

                                          >>

                                          >> Antonio Lombatti

                                          >>

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          > ++++++

                                          >

                                          > Jim West, ThD

                                          >

                                          > http://jwest. wordpress. com - Blog

                                          > http://sites. google.com/ site/biblicalstu diesresources/ - Biblical

                                          > Studies Resources

                                          >

                                          >

                                          > ------------ --------- --------- ------

                                          >

                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >

                                          >


























                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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