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Re: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription

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  • Joe Zias
    Jack Kilmon writes A very important piece of unprovenanced epigraphy will almost certainly rise up from private hands again. I would like to add, forged or
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 29, 2008
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      Jack Kilmon writes "A very important piece of unprovenanced epigraphy will almost certainly rise up from private hands again."


      I would like to add, forged or plundered and published in those journals pandering to the public looking for 'signs and wonders'. You won't see it in any of the ASOR journals and in time is too may be on trial. It will only be important to those greedy or naive, academics will rightfully ignore it. As far as those on trial or awaiting trial, be ready for some more surprises...

      Joe

      Joe Zias www.joezias.com
      Anthropology/Paleopathology

      Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
      Jerusalem, Israel

      --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
      From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 10:08 AM













      ----- Original Message -----

      From: "Niels Peter Lemche" <npl@.... dk>

      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

      Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:42 PM

      Subject: SV: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription



      >

      > I think it has definitely been shown that forgery techniques have

      > improved

      > considerably but yet again, the greater majority of artifacts are

      > unprovenanced. I don't think we can afford to dismiss them out of hand

      > if

      > they are potentially important epigraphs and archeometry and

      > paleography/ orthography concur.

      >

      >>>I am totally puzzled by this thing.

      >

      > Jack Kilmon <<

      >

      >

      > Dear Jack,

      >

      > I see no other options than to reject such material, or we are totally

      > at the mercy of intelligent forgers. In a perfect world, yes, OK, but

      > this is not a perfect world.

      >

      > Niels Peter Lemche



      I wish there was another option....maybe there is. The tactic the idiot IAA

      takes, however, won't cut it. Their zeal to send forgers to jail for a

      billion years is OK but not their tactic to prosecute and smear innocents

      like Drs.Deutsch and Eshel just for the publicity.



      A very important piece of unprovenanced epigraphy will almost certainly rise

      up from private hands again.



      Never a dull moment.



      Jack Kilmon


























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Antonio Lombatti
      Hi all, I m (desperately) looking for Avigail Sheffer s email address. She is an expert in Second Temple textiles. Does anyone on this list know how or where
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 3, 2008
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        Hi all,

        I'm (desperately) looking for Avigail Sheffer's email address. She is
        an expert in Second Temple textiles. Does anyone on this list know how
        or where to contact her?

        In case you can help me, please, be so kind to write me off list.

        Thanks,
        Antonio Lombatti

        ----------------------------------
        http://www.antoniolombatti.it








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jack Kilmon
        I understand, Joe. Like Niels said.. In a perfect world... which it certainly aint. Just the thought of an extremely valuable (academically) piece of
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 4, 2008
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          I understand, Joe. Like Niels said.."In a perfect world..." which it
          certainly aint. Just the thought of an extremely valuable (academically)
          piece of epigraphy going unpublished or ignored...well...it sure is a
          complex issue. What better example than the unprovenanced mummy of Ramses
          I, that had bounced around huckster exhibits in the US for 140 years, being
          returned to Egypt. How could the founder of the 19th Dynasty be ignored?

          Jack

          Jack Kilmon
          San Antonio, TX


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
          To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:03 AM
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription


          > Jack Kilmon writes "A very important piece of unprovenanced epigraphy will
          > almost certainly rise up from private hands again."
          >
          >
          > I would like to add, forged or plundered and published in those journals
          > pandering to the public looking for 'signs and wonders'. You won't see it
          > in any of the ASOR journals and in time is too may be on trial. It will
          > only be important to those greedy or naive, academics will rightfully
          > ignore it. As far as those on trial or awaiting trial, be ready for some
          > more surprises...
          >
          > Joe
          >
          > Joe Zias www.joezias.com
          > Anthropology/Paleopathology
          >
          > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
          > Jerusalem, Israel
          >
          > --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
          > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
          > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription
          > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 10:08 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          >
          > From: "Niels Peter Lemche" <npl@.... dk>
          >
          > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
          >
          > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:42 PM
          >
          > Subject: SV: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription
          >
          >
          >
          >>
          >
          >> I think it has definitely been shown that forgery techniques have
          >
          >> improved
          >
          >> considerably but yet again, the greater majority of artifacts are
          >
          >> unprovenanced. I don't think we can afford to dismiss them out of hand
          >
          >> if
          >
          >> they are potentially important epigraphs and archeometry and
          >
          >> paleography/ orthography concur.
          >
          >>
          >
          >>>>I am totally puzzled by this thing.
          >
          >>
          >
          >> Jack Kilmon <<
          >
          >>
          >
          >>
          >
          >> Dear Jack,
          >
          >>
          >
          >> I see no other options than to reject such material, or we are totally
          >
          >> at the mercy of intelligent forgers. In a perfect world, yes, OK, but
          >
          >> this is not a perfect world.
          >
          >>
          >
          >> Niels Peter Lemche
          >
          >
          >
          > I wish there was another option....maybe there is. The tactic the idiot
          > IAA
          >
          > takes, however, won't cut it. Their zeal to send forgers to jail for a
          >
          > billion years is OK but not their tactic to prosecute and smear innocents
          >
          > like Drs.Deutsch and Eshel just for the publicity.
          >
          >
          >
          > A very important piece of unprovenanced epigraphy will almost certainly
          > rise
          >
          > up from private hands again.
          >
          >
          >
          > Never a dull moment.
          >
          >
          >
          > Jack Kilmon
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Joe Zias
          Ah, that Jehoash/BAR inscription again, being somewhat closer to the plate as they say in Hebrew there has been some new developments, but rather than bring
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 5, 2008
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            Ah, that Jehoash/BAR inscription again, being somewhat closer to the 'plate' as they say in Hebrew there has been some new developments, but rather than bring them to the attention of the list, I'll wait for the BAR update which is 'covering' the trial, thought don't hold your breath as that Egyptian forger who admitted to 60 minutes Bob Simon that he had a 'hand' in it still has not appeared. I wonder why, time will tell. Be patient, as archaeology is 95% patience and 5 % luck.
            Joe

            Joe Zias www.joezias.com
            Anthropology/Paleopathology

            Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
            Jerusalem, Israel

            --- On Sat, 10/4/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
            From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 11:46 PM











            I understand, Joe. Like Niels said.."In a perfect world..." which it

            certainly aint. Just the thought of an extremely valuable (academically)

            piece of epigraphy going unpublished or ignored...well. ..it sure is a

            complex issue. What better example than the unprovenanced mummy of Ramses

            I, that had bounced around huckster exhibits in the US for 140 years, being

            returned to Egypt. How could the founder of the 19th Dynasty be ignored?



            Jack



            Jack Kilmon

            San Antonio, TX



            ----- Original Message -----

            From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@yahoo. com>

            To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

            Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:03 AM

            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription



            > Jack Kilmon writes "A very important piece of unprovenanced epigraphy will

            > almost certainly rise up from private hands again."

            >

            >

            > I would like to add, forged or plundered and published in those journals

            > pandering to the public looking for 'signs and wonders'. You won't see it

            > in any of the ASOR journals and in time is too may be on trial. It will

            > only be important to those greedy or naive, academics will rightfully

            > ignore it. As far as those on trial or awaiting trial, be ready for some

            > more surprises...

            >

            > Joe

            >

            > Joe Zias www.joezias. com

            > Anthropology/ Paleopathology

            >

            > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem

            > Jerusalem, Israel

            >

            > --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:

            > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

            > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription

            > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

            > Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 10:08 AM

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            > ----- Original Message -----

            >

            > From: "Niels Peter Lemche" <npl@.... dk>

            >

            > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

            >

            > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:42 PM

            >

            > Subject: SV: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription

            >

            >

            >

            >>

            >

            >> I think it has definitely been shown that forgery techniques have

            >

            >> improved

            >

            >> considerably but yet again, the greater majority of artifacts are

            >

            >> unprovenanced. I don't think we can afford to dismiss them out of hand

            >

            >> if

            >

            >> they are potentially important epigraphs and archeometry and

            >

            >> paleography/ orthography concur.

            >

            >>

            >

            >>>>I am totally puzzled by this thing.

            >

            >>

            >

            >> Jack Kilmon <<

            >

            >>

            >

            >>

            >

            >> Dear Jack,

            >

            >>

            >

            >> I see no other options than to reject such material, or we are totally

            >

            >> at the mercy of intelligent forgers. In a perfect world, yes, OK, but

            >

            >> this is not a perfect world.

            >

            >>

            >

            >> Niels Peter Lemche

            >

            >

            >

            > I wish there was another option....maybe there is. The tactic the idiot

            > IAA

            >

            > takes, however, won't cut it. Their zeal to send forgers to jail for a

            >

            > billion years is OK but not their tactic to prosecute and smear innocents

            >

            > like Drs.Deutsch and Eshel just for the publicity.

            >

            >

            >

            > A very important piece of unprovenanced epigraphy will almost certainly

            > rise

            >

            > up from private hands again.

            >

            >

            >

            > Never a dull moment.

            >

            >

            >

            > Jack Kilmon

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

            >

            > ------------ --------- --------- ------

            >

            > Yahoo! Groups Links

            >

            >

            >

            >


























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Hall
            The Jehoash tablet was published.  It is of little consequence that the one who sold it has been indicted on fraud charges, nor was it of importance to some
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 5, 2008
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              The Jehoash tablet was published.  It is of little consequence that the one who sold it has been indicted on fraud charges, nor was it of importance to some that it was unprovenanced.  Some people claimed they found pieces of wood from Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat in Turkey.  I do not believe their publication aided scientific acheivement although it made some people very happy. 
               
              David Q. Hall
            • Niels Peter Lemche
              David, This is one of the peculiar assets of biblical studies, the kind of parasites that surrounds it. We have deliberate fraud as probably in the Joash case.
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 5, 2008
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                David,

                This is one of the peculiar assets of biblical studies, the kind of
                parasites that surrounds it. We have deliberate fraud as probably in the
                Joash case. Or the brother of Jesus ossuarium often discussed at
                biblical lists. Then we have the more crazy people around as those who
                are always looking for Noah's ark. Another case is the quest for the
                grave of Moses. There were rumours that some Italian billionaire some
                years ago got permission to blow up Byzantine churches around Mt Nebo,
                because Moses must be buried under a church. And so on. A kind of
                continuation for the old search for splinters of the cross of Christ.

                Happily we don't discuss such matters here!

                But it is interesting how one piece of fake from Palestine gets much
                more attention than the problem about genuine artefacts from Iraq stolen
                and sold illegally.

                Niels Peter Lemche
              • Joe Zias
                I couldn t agree with you more, aside from those being on trial, it did indeed make a few folks very happy financially. That s the reason you are not getting
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 5, 2008
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                  I couldn't agree with you more, aside from those being on trial, it did indeed make a few folks very happy financially. That's the reason you are not getting updated from the so called 'updaters' now that the 'experts' are being questioned in the court room.
                  Joe

                  Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                  Anthropology/Paleopathology

                  Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
                  Jerusalem, Israel

                  --- On Sun, 10/5/08, David Hall <dqhall59@...> wrote:
                  From: David Hall <dqhall59@...>
                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] RE: the case for the Jehoash Inscription
                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 9:56 AM











                  The Jehoash tablet was published.  It is of little consequence that the one who sold it has been indicted on fraud charges, nor was it of importance to some that it was unprovenanced.  Some people claimed they found pieces of wood from Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat in Turkey.  I do not believe their publication aided scientific acheivement although it made some people very happy. 

                   

                  David Q. Hall


























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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