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RE: [ANE-2] Re: Atrahasis on-line?

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  • victor
    Brian, sorry I didn t mention your translation, but it s not quite on the beaten track. Be that as it may, the Atrahasis from Sippar has been partially
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 8, 2008
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      Brian, sorry I didn't mention your translation, but it's not quite on the
      beaten track.

      Be that as it may, the Atrahasis from Sippar has been partially published by
      George and Al-Rawi



      "Tablets from the Sippar Library VI. Atra-hasis", Iraq 58 (1996) 58, pages
      147-190
      I wouldn't recommend simply integrating this material into the already
      existing material as you did with the Assyrian recension because it is quite
      expansive and you'd end up with a text which never existed.
      Victor Hurowitz
      BGU




      _____

      From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      Brian Colless
      Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:06 PM
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [ANE-2] Re: Atrahasis on-line?



      Stephanie,

      My translation is now available on my Collesseum website, in the
      Ancient Mesopotamia section.

      It is taken from Brian Colless, Hieroglyph and Cuneiform: Ancient
      Religious Writings (Massey University, 1997) 107-113 (not available in
      shops).

      http://collesseum. <http://collesseum.googlepages.com/home>
      googlepages.com/home

      The text I used was Lambert and Millard.

      I have filled some of the gaps in the Babylonian version with the
      Assyrian recension.

      I was very hopeful of expanding it when I first heard about the
      discoveries at Sippar, but I have not had access to them (and I would
      need a transcription and translation by an expert before I could use
      the new material).

      I would recommend that anyone wishing to access it should go via this
      introduction:
      Deluge: Flood warning: A-BU-BU, @:

      http://bonzoz. <http://bonzoz.blogspot.com/> blogspot.com/

      You might find some other things to interest and amuse you on both
      sites. Victor has had personal experience of my style of presentation,
      with my analysis of the Epic of Gilgamesh. (Nothing's sacred in satire!)

      The essay entitled "ABGDT : A is for Aurochs" is the first in my
      series on the origins of the letters of the alphabet, and it provides
      a chart of my decipherment of the the proto-alphabet.

      My discussion of the interpretation of the West Semitic proto-
      alphabetic and logo-syllabic texts is building up on:

      http://cryptcracker <http://cryptcracker.blogspot.com> .blogspot.com

      Sincerely and satirically

      Brian Colless

      Massey University, NZ

      On 5/09/2008, at 1:52 AM, sbudin@camden.
      <mailto:sbudin%40camden.rutgers.edu> rutgers.edu wrote:

      > Alas, I figured as much. Many thanks for the confirmation, though...
      >
      > -Stephanie Budin
      >
      > Quoting victor avigdor hurowitz <victor@bgumail.
      <mailto:victor%40bgumail.bgu.ac.il> bgu.ac.il>:
      >
      > > Dear Stephanie,
      > > I may be mistaken, but I don't think there is such a thing as you
      > seek. If
      > > you Google Atrahasis you will find a few sites such as Livius or
      > Gateways
      > > to Babylon which bring excerpts, but no full translation. Also,
      > bear in
      > > mind that the Lambert, Millard edition and translation is now
      > somewhat out
      > > of date, especially because of a large part of an NB version found
      > at
      > > Sippar and published by George and Al-Rawi in Iraq. As I recall,
      > there's
      > > more from Sippar which hasn't been published which will prevent
      > anyway in
      > > the
      > > immediate future from attempting to fully replace Lambert-Millard.
      > Etana,
      > > eTACT of course has no Atrahasis pieces represented.
      > > Best,
      > > Victor Hurowitz
      > > BGU
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 sbudin@camden. <mailto:sbudin%40camden.rutgers.edu>
      rutgers.edu wrote:
      > >
      > >> Greetings, All,
      > >>
      > >> Could anyone recommend a good translation of "Atrahasis" on-line?
      > >> Do any such exist?
      > >>
      > >> Many Thanks,
      > >> Stephanie Budin
      > >>
      >
      > "Maybe we can link up with someone who's meditating and download
      > enlightenment!" -Tachikoma
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • sbudin@camden.rutgers.edu
      Wow! Thank you! This is very helpful! Many, many thanks! -Stephanie Budin ... Maybe we can link up with someone who s meditating and download
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 9, 2008
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        Wow! Thank you! This is very helpful! Many, many thanks!

        -Stephanie Budin


        Quoting Brian Colless <briancolless@...>:

        > Stephanie,
        >
        > My translation is now available on my Collesseum website, in the
        > Ancient Mesopotamia section.
        >
        > It is taken from Brian Colless, Hieroglyph and Cuneiform: Ancient
        > Religious Writings (Massey University, 1997) 107-113 (not available in
        > shops).
        >
        > http://collesseum.googlepages.com/home
        >
        > The text I used was Lambert and Millard.
        >
        > I have filled some of the gaps in the Babylonian version with the
        > Assyrian recension.
        >
        > I was very hopeful of expanding it when I first heard about the
        > discoveries at Sippar, but I have not had access to them (and I would
        > need a transcription and translation by an expert before I could use
        > the new material).
        >
        > I would recommend that anyone wishing to access it should go via this
        > introduction:
        > Deluge: Flood warning: A-BU-BU, @:
        >
        > http://bonzoz.blogspot.com/
        >
        > You might find some other things to interest and amuse you on both
        > sites. Victor has had personal experience of my style of presentation,
        > with my analysis of the Epic of Gilgamesh. (Nothing's sacred in satire!)
        >
        > The essay entitled "ABGDT : A is for Aurochs" is the first in my
        > series on the origins of the letters of the alphabet, and it provides
        > a chart of my decipherment of the the proto-alphabet.
        >
        > My discussion of the interpretation of the West Semitic proto-
        > alphabetic and logo-syllabic texts is building up on:
        >
        > http://cryptcracker.blogspot.com
        >
        > Sincerely and satirically
        >
        > Brian Colless
        >
        > Massey University, NZ
        >
        > On 5/09/2008, at 1:52 AM, sbudin@... wrote:
        >
        >> Alas, I figured as much. Many thanks for the confirmation, though...
        >>
        >> -Stephanie Budin
        >>
        >> Quoting victor avigdor hurowitz <victor@...>:
        >>
        >> > Dear Stephanie,
        >> > I may be mistaken, but I don't think there is such a thing as you
        >> seek. If
        >> > you Google Atrahasis you will find a few sites such as Livius or
        >> Gateways
        >> > to Babylon which bring excerpts, but no full translation. Also,
        >> bear in
        >> > mind that the Lambert, Millard edition and translation is now
        >> somewhat out
        >> > of date, especially because of a large part of an NB version found
        >> at
        >> > Sippar and published by George and Al-Rawi in Iraq. As I recall,
        >> there's
        >> > more from Sippar which hasn't been published which will prevent
        >> anyway in
        >> > the
        >> > immediate future from attempting to fully replace Lambert-Millard.
        >> Etana,
        >> > eTACT of course has no Atrahasis pieces represented.
        >> > Best,
        >> > Victor Hurowitz
        >> > BGU
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 sbudin@... wrote:
        >> >
        >> >> Greetings, All,
        >> >>
        >> >> Could anyone recommend a good translation of "Atrahasis" on-line?
        >> >> Do any such exist?
        >> >>
        >> >> Many Thanks,
        >> >> Stephanie Budin
        >> >>
        >>
        >> "Maybe we can link up with someone who's meditating and download
        >> enlightenment!" -Tachikoma
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >



        "Maybe we can link up with someone who's meditating and download
        enlightenment!" -Tachikoma
      • Brian Colless
        Victor, it is all right; it was not there for you to find at the time! I knew I had seen something in Iraq in Sydney on one of my rare visits. JS /Agade has
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 9, 2008
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          Victor, it is all right; it was not there for you to find at the time!

          I knew I had seen something in Iraq in Sydney on one of my rare visits. JS /Agade has just passed on the news that the journal it is on JSTOR now, so I should go and beg a copy from my university library.

          On your last point, my view is that if the ancients allowed themselves to make new recensions, why can't I ?! Notice I mark them BV and AV clearly in the text. I also abridge the long repetitions.

          Shalom

          Brian

          On 9/09/2008, at 4:36 PM, victor wrote:

          > Brian, sorry I didn't mention your translation, but it's not quite
          on the beaten track.
          >
          Be that as it may, the Atrahasis from Sippar has been partially
          published by George and Al-Rawi, "Tablets from the Sippar Library VI. Atra-hasis", Iraq 58 (1996) 58, pages 147-190.
          I wouldn't recommend simply integrating this material into the already
          existing material as you did with the Assyrian recension because it
          is quite expansive and you'd end up with a text which never existed.

          > Victor Hurowitz
          > BGU
        • Brian Colless
          Stephanie, Please remember that this is not an authoritative translation. It is not original, it is just the general consensus put into my own words (but these
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 11, 2008
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            Stephanie,

            Please remember that this is not an authoritative translation. It is
            not original, it is just the general consensus put into my own words
            (but these sometimes coincide with some one else's sentence!); and
            when everyone disagrees about the meaning of a word or phrase, I often
            say to myself that my guess is as good as theirs. The very first line
            (as with Gilgamesh) is a puzzle. I don't know where I got the idea of
            awilum being locative (> in place of), but certainly the meaning must
            be that once upon a time the gods were doing all the work, not humans.

            For the birth bricks I had an Egyptian analogy of squatting on two
            large bricks in mind.

            The idea that the drum represented the human heartbeat, I picked up
            from Albright in BibArc'st, and also the malthusianism at the end.

            The thing was prepared for my students, to give them the gist of what
            is going on in the story, and I added bits of the Assyrian version to
            fill gaps in the story line. I added notes at the end.

            I hope it will be useful to you in that way.

            It was your request that prompted me to put it there. I have a lot
            more of them waiting on the assembly line for a final polishing. The
            Song of the Pearl (Syriac) is one which is extremely original, and I
            have put that on open access; but Enuma Elish and Gilgamesh are ones I
            am hesitant about. Having seen Lambert's translation of EE on the web
            the other day, I suppose I could use it to correct my own version, but
            would not want to be in competition with him.

            The same with Andrew George's Gilgamesh (printed in books). I met
            Andrew George (and also Victor Hurovitz and Gary Rendsburg) at a
            seminar on Gilgamesh in Sydney; Andrew gave me a crit session on
            details of my interpretation of the epic, and I want to put my study
            of the themes of the epic on my website.
            Brian Colless
            Massey University, NZ
            http://collesseum.googlepages.com/home

            On 10/09/2008, at 12:06 AM, sbudin@... wrote:

            > Wow! Thank you! This is very helpful! Many, many thanks!
            >
            > -Stephanie Budin
            >
            > Quoting Brian Colless <briancolless@...>:
            >
            > > Stephanie,
            > >
            > > My translation is now available on my Collesseum website, in the
            > > Ancient Mesopotamia section.
            > >
            > > It is taken from Brian Colless, Hieroglyph and Cuneiform: Ancient
            > > Religious Writings (Massey University, 1997) 107-113 (not
            > available in
            > > shops).
            > >
            > http://collesseum.googlepages.com/home



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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