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Re: [ANE-2] further RE additions to tlenai, talal &c

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  • Michael F. Lane
    Mata, I might have guessed that Nostratic theory motivated you. With due respect, I find very little interest or advantage in Nostratic speculations.
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 21, 2008
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      Mata,

      I might have guessed that Nostratic "theory" motivated you.

      With due respect, I find very little interest or advantage in Nostratic
      speculations. Comparing vocabulary is still the weakest way of drawing
      language family genealogies.

      If one looks hard enough, one will find lexical semantic connections
      somewhere in the realm of connotations. It seems to me a bit like
      watching the clouds, looking for camels or sailboats or other clouds.

      Nonetheless, I wish you best of luck in your endeavors,

      Michael Lane
      Univ. of Maryland, Baltimore County

      > Michael,
      >
      > I note that Wehr (p 498 col 2) has šâla =
      > to carry, to convey, to transport; to raise,
      > to elevate to lift; Å¡aila = burden, load;
      > šiyâla = carrying, carriage, conveyance,
      > transportation (of loads); porterage, carry-
      > ing charges; šayyâl = porter, carrier; šayyâla
      > = suspender &c. The root here is Å¡yl (com-
      > parable to šôresh tll (sll (s= samekh)) compar-
      > able to šôresh ? PIE *tlH2-).
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > Mata
      >
      > - -
      >
      > Mata Kimasitayo
      > Kimasita~aT~Bloomington~In~Us
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: Michael F. Lane
      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:59 AM
      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] RE additions to tlenai, talal &c
      >
      >
      > Mata --
      >
      > I'm still not following.
      >
      > To take just two examples from Arabic,
      >
      > 'atla3a (Form IV, where I use 3 for 3ayn; maSdar -- 'itlaa3un) means "to
      > crane one's neck, to stretch out."
      >
      > Tala3a (Form I; maSdar -- Tuluu3un or maTla3un) means "to rise up, arise."
      >
      > In contrast, the principal sense of IE *tel(-H)- seems to be "bearing,
      > carrying (weight)."
      >
      > The possibility of a borrowing from a Semitic language into Greek is
      > possible, which loan word was then interpreted with the connotations of
      > tle:nai, tellein, etc.; but a true etymological relationship seems quite
      > out of the question.
      >
      > -- Michael Lane
      > Univ. of Maryland, Baltimore County
      >
      >> Michael,
      >>
      >> Well I was wondering. Presumably the connexion,
      >> if there be one, is remote since it would bridge
      >> Indo-European and Semitic sources. It is merely
      >> the semantic overlap between the roots sll, tll, swl
      >> and maybe a few others and PIE *tel- and the
      >> evident similarity in root & stem consonants that
      >> engendered my curiosity. The two domains described
      >> by PIE *tll, on the one hand & the groups/t + ll, and
      >> perhaps variants in secundum, tertium infirmae (swl,
      >> slw, twl, tl3 &c - I haven't tried to exhaustively ferret
      >> them out - maybe there are variants in s/t + rr ?), on the
      >> other hand, have considerable semantic overlap it seems
      >> to me. The ideas of rising, lifing, carrying, suspending
      >> are common to both groups, so the idea of a comparison of
      >> the two naturally arises for me. Maybe there is a common
      >> Sumerian source ? ila ? Something of the sort was my
      >> thought when I posted my query to the list. So following
      >> my own curiosity I came to this place where too my
      >> ability to criticize these thoughts drops off rapidly -
      >> thus the post to the list.
      >>
      >> I don't find a hieroglyphic source for Coptic tal though
      >> this root and its variants seem widely enough spread in
      >> Semitic (there are a bunch of attestations I didn't and
      >> haven't cited). I assume Coptic tal is from a Semitic
      >> source.
      >>
      >> I don't have the best resources to hand either, I don't
      >> have Crum available to me for instance, or any better
      >> source for Hittite than Sturtevant's old glossary from
      >> 1936. Meanwhile "Atlantis" has inspired all sorts of
      >> phantasies, perhaps to be included are my philological
      >> conjectures ?
      >>
      >> Best regards,
      >>
      >> Mata
      >> - -
      >>
      >> Mata Kimasitayo
      >> Kimasita~aT~Bloomington~In~Us
      >>
      >> ----- Original Message -----
      >>
      >> From: Michael F. Lane
      >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      >> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:43 PM
      >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] additions to tlênai, tâlal &c
      >>
      >> Mata,
      >>
      >> I'm not following you. Tle:nai, tellein, etc. are clearly derived from
      > an
      >> PIE root/stem *tel(-H2) / tl(-eH2) / tL-H2- (where L is sonant l), as
      > you
      >> suggest.
      >>
      >> What connection do you think there is with the Semitic triliteral t-l-l?
      >>
      >> Michael Lane
      >> --
      >> Dr Michael Franklin Lane
      >> Assistant Professor (adjunct)
      >> Ancient Studies Department
      >> University of Maryland, Baltimore County
      >> Fine Arts Building, Room 452
      >> 1000 Hilltop Circle
      >> Baltimore, MD 21250, USA
      >> Tel. +1-410-455-6265 / Fax +1-410-455-1027
      >> Odd that the moderators let my last post alone.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      > --
      > Dr Michael Franklin Lane
      > Ancient Studies Department
      > University of Maryland, Baltimore County
      > Fine Arts Building, Room 452
      > 1000 Hilltop Circle
      > Baltimore, MD 21250, USA
      > Tel. +1-410-455-6265 / Fax +1-410-455-1027
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      Dr Michael Franklin Lane
      Ancient Studies Department
      University of Maryland, Baltimore County
      Fine Arts Building, Room 452
      1000 Hilltop Circle
      Baltimore, MD 21250, USA
      Tel. +1-410-455-6265 / Fax +1-410-455-1027
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