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RE additions to tlenai, talal &c

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  • Mata Kimasitayo
    Michael, Well I was wondering. Presumably the connexion, if there be one, is remote since it would bridge Indo-European and Semitic sources. It is merely the
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 15 12:52 PM
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      Michael,

      Well I was wondering. Presumably the connexion,
      if there be one, is remote since it would bridge
      Indo-European and Semitic sources. It is merely
      the semantic overlap between the roots sll, tll, swl
      and maybe a few others and PIE *tel- and the
      evident similarity in root & stem consonants that
      engendered my curiosity. The two domains described
      by PIE *tll, on the one hand & the groups/t + ll, and
      perhaps variants in secundum, tertium infirmae (swl,
      slw, twl, tl3 &c - I haven't tried to exhaustively ferret
      them out - maybe there are variants in s/t + rr ?), on the
      other hand, have considerable semantic overlap it seems
      to me. The ideas of rising, lifing, carrying, suspending
      are common to both groups, so the idea of a comparison of
      the two naturally arises for me. Maybe there is a common
      Sumerian source ? ila ? Something of the sort was my
      thought when I posted my query to the list. So following
      my own curiosity I came to this place where too my
      ability to criticize these thoughts drops off rapidly -
      thus the post to the list.

      I don't find a hieroglyphic source for Coptic tal though
      this root and its variants seem widely enough spread in
      Semitic (there are a bunch of attestations I didn't and
      haven't cited). I assume Coptic tal is from a Semitic
      source.

      I don't have the best resources to hand either, I don't
      have Crum available to me for instance, or any better
      source for Hittite than Sturtevant's old glossary from
      1936. Meanwhile "Atlantis" has inspired all sorts of
      phantasies, perhaps to be included are my philological
      conjectures ?

      Best regards,

      Mata
      - -

      Mata Kimasitayo
      Kimasita~aT~Bloomington~In~Us

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Michael F. Lane
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:43 PM
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] additions to tlênai, tâlal &c

      Mata,

      I'm not following you. Tle:nai, tellein, etc. are clearly derived from an
      PIE root/stem *tel(-H2) / tl(-eH2) / tL-H2- (where L is sonant l), as you
      suggest.

      What connection do you think there is with the Semitic triliteral t-l-l?

      Michael Lane
      --
      Dr Michael Franklin Lane
      Assistant Professor (adjunct)
      Ancient Studies Department
      University of Maryland, Baltimore County
      Fine Arts Building, Room 452
      1000 Hilltop Circle
      Baltimore, MD 21250, USA
      Tel. +1-410-455-6265 / Fax +1-410-455-1027
      Odd that the moderators let my last post alone.
    • Michael F. Lane
      Mata -- I m still not following. To take just two examples from Arabic, atla3a (Form IV, where I use 3 for 3ayn; maSdar -- itlaa3un) means to crane one s
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 20 8:59 AM
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        Mata --

        I'm still not following.

        To take just two examples from Arabic,

        'atla3a (Form IV, where I use 3 for 3ayn; maSdar -- 'itlaa3un) means "to
        crane one's neck, to stretch out."

        Tala3a (Form I; maSdar -- Tuluu3un or maTla3un) means "to rise up, arise."

        In contrast, the principal sense of IE *tel(-H)- seems to be "bearing,
        carrying (weight)."

        The possibility of a borrowing from a Semitic language into Greek is
        possible, which loan word was then interpreted with the connotations of
        tle:nai, tellein, etc.; but a true etymological relationship seems quite
        out of the question.

        -- Michael Lane
        Univ. of Maryland, Baltimore County

        > Michael,
        >
        > Well I was wondering. Presumably the connexion,
        > if there be one, is remote since it would bridge
        > Indo-European and Semitic sources. It is merely
        > the semantic overlap between the roots sll, tll, swl
        > and maybe a few others and PIE *tel- and the
        > evident similarity in root & stem consonants that
        > engendered my curiosity. The two domains described
        > by PIE *tll, on the one hand & the groups/t + ll, and
        > perhaps variants in secundum, tertium infirmae (swl,
        > slw, twl, tl3 &c - I haven't tried to exhaustively ferret
        > them out - maybe there are variants in s/t + rr ?), on the
        > other hand, have considerable semantic overlap it seems
        > to me. The ideas of rising, lifing, carrying, suspending
        > are common to both groups, so the idea of a comparison of
        > the two naturally arises for me. Maybe there is a common
        > Sumerian source ? ila ? Something of the sort was my
        > thought when I posted my query to the list. So following
        > my own curiosity I came to this place where too my
        > ability to criticize these thoughts drops off rapidly -
        > thus the post to the list.
        >
        > I don't find a hieroglyphic source for Coptic tal though
        > this root and its variants seem widely enough spread in
        > Semitic (there are a bunch of attestations I didn't and
        > haven't cited). I assume Coptic tal is from a Semitic
        > source.
        >
        > I don't have the best resources to hand either, I don't
        > have Crum available to me for instance, or any better
        > source for Hittite than Sturtevant's old glossary from
        > 1936. Meanwhile "Atlantis" has inspired all sorts of
        > phantasies, perhaps to be included are my philological
        > conjectures ?
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > Mata
        > - -
        >
        > Mata Kimasitayo
        > Kimasita~aT~Bloomington~In~Us
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        >
        > From: Michael F. Lane
        > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 2:43 PM
        > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] additions to tlênai, tâlal &c
        >
        > Mata,
        >
        > I'm not following you. Tle:nai, tellein, etc. are clearly derived from
        an
        > PIE root/stem *tel(-H2) / tl(-eH2) / tL-H2- (where L is sonant l), as
        you
        > suggest.
        >
        > What connection do you think there is with the Semitic triliteral t-l-l?
        >
        > Michael Lane
        > --
        > Dr Michael Franklin Lane
        > Assistant Professor (adjunct)
        > Ancient Studies Department
        > University of Maryland, Baltimore County
        > Fine Arts Building, Room 452
        > 1000 Hilltop Circle
        > Baltimore, MD 21250, USA
        > Tel. +1-410-455-6265 / Fax +1-410-455-1027
        > Odd that the moderators let my last post alone.
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        Dr Michael Franklin Lane
        Ancient Studies Department
        University of Maryland, Baltimore County
        Fine Arts Building, Room 452
        1000 Hilltop Circle
        Baltimore, MD 21250, USA
        Tel. +1-410-455-6265 / Fax +1-410-455-1027
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