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Re: [SPAM] Re: [ANE-2] Help with a Syriac plant name

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  • Nineb Lamassu
    Dear Peter, and Jan, I have checked Loew s book and it seems it is water mint , I had also checked a Latin dictionary before Loew s book and the entry for
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 27, 2008
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      Dear Peter, and Jan,

      I have checked Loew's book and it seems it is "water mint", I had also checked a Latin dictionary before Loew's book and the entry for Sisymbrium confirmed my suspicion that the noun is a loanword into Syriac. The Latin dictionary gave me the following definition: "A fragrant herb sacred to Venus perhaps wild thyme or mint".

      Now that I personally am satisfied that Sisymbrium is σισύμϐριον, σίσυμϐρον = mentha aquatica which I think can safely be translated as "water mint" I still have two questions which I am searching answers for:

      1) What is the significant of this Sisymbrium to Venus, and why would the Latin dictionary define it as sacred to Venus?

      2) What would the Hebrew equivalent of Sisymbrium be?

      My German is not that great since I just started learning German this summer but what I could make from Loew's book was the following:

      1) on page 128 of Vol. IV I believe he states it Sisymbrium is a Greek loanword
      2) on page 239 Vol. IV I think he is trying to say that the Hebrew equivalent is: תוברה . If this is the case would anyone know what this תוברה is and if it is found in other Semitic languages?
      3) On page 131 Vol. IV again I think he is probably saying that it is the same as עגרשא . I found this in the Syriac dictionary and it seems that עגרשא is not related to Sisymbrium in Syriac because in Syriac עגרשא is some kind of vegetation that grows in the mountains and it is used as fodder for the sheep in winter. Again what does this עגרשא mean in Hebrew?
      4) On another page which I do not recall, I think Loew is probably saying that Sisymbrium is the same as צנונות, again does anyone know if I have understood him correctly. And if this is the Hebrew equivalent of Sisymbrium do we know of this word surviving in other Semitic languages?

      Again thanks everyone, and I eager look forward to any assistance I may received fro anyone on this list.

      Cordially,

      Nineb Lamassu
      Firodil Institute
      www.firodil.co.uk
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Peter T. Daniels
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:09 PM
      Subject: [SPAM] Re: [ANE-2] Help with a Syriac plant name


      Both the Syriac (too small to read!) and the Greek came through fine. They even survived the switch from "Rich Text" to "Plain Text."

      I take it that's Loew's entry for the item in question?
      --
      Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: "Budelberger, Richard" <budelberger.richard@...>
      To: ANE-2 <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:13:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Help with a Syriac plant name

      Peter T. Daniels wrote :
      > Your message has passed through a number of computers and the orthography
      > has been lost.

      Dear All,

      I am searching for the exact meaning of a Syriac plant
      called: "Sisammra" ܣܝܼܣܲܡܪܵܐ, Mar Augin Manna's dictionary tells me that
      this is the same as "Sisammbra" ܣܝܼܣܲܡܒܪܵܐ, and directs me to look it up
      in "Smasra" ܣܡܵܣܪܵܐ. When I looked it in "Smasra" ܣܡܵܣܪܵܐ, it gave me the
      following definition: "it resembles wild mint of wonderful fragrance
      with wider leaves".

      Mrs: Margoliouth has nothing but "Samasra" ܣܰܡܳܣܪܳܐ and tells me it is
      either wild thyme or mint. I do not have a copy of her father's two
      volume dictionary so I do not know what he defines this noun as.
      Mar Taoma Audo's dictionary has no "Sisamra" ܣܝܼܣܲܡܪܵܐ nor "Sisambra"
      ܣܝܼܣܲܡܒܪܵܐ but has "Sisambriyon" ܣܝܼܣܲܡܒܿܪܝܼܘܿܢ and he defines it as: "it is a
      healing plant, and it is of the same family as ܟܪܲܦܣܵܐ (Parsley) which
      grows on waterside. As for "Samasra" ܣܰܡܳܣܪܳܐ he tells us that it
      is "mint".

      Hassano Bar Bahlule has "Sisombriyon" ܣܝܣܘܡܒܪܝܘܢ and tells me that it
      is the same as "Sisanbar" ܣܝܣܢܒܪ, and defines it as water mint. Notice
      the "m" here turns into an "n". As for "Samasra" ܣܰܡܳܣܪܳܐ he gives me
      the same meaning.

      What I really want to know is if anyone knows what this plant is
      exactly and I would welcome any comments on the origin of this
      noun. "Sisamra" ܣܝܼܣܲܡܪܵܐ, "Sisambra" ܣܝܼܣܲܡܒܪܵܐ, "Smasra" ܣܡܵܣܪܵܐ,
      and "Samasra" ܣܰܡܳܣܪܳܐ all sound Semitic enough even the "n2 changing
      to "m" but the "ion" endings of "Sisambriyon" ܣܝܼܣܲܡܒܿܪܝܼܘܿܢ
      and "Sisombriyon" ܣܝܣܘܡܒܪܝܘܢ has me suspecting a Greek origin. This
      suspension is further augmented by the fact that the noun is
      vocalised in so many different ways, something which is normal with
      Greek loanwords into Syriac.

      Cordially,

      Nineb Lamassu

      > Did you try Loew, Die Flora der Juden?

      σισύμϐριον, σίσυμϐρον = mentha aquatica L./nepeta calaria L.




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