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Re: [ANE-2] Taws on ossuaries

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  • George F Somsel
    Alexander worshiping his God may well be the earliest example we know of in which the cross is used, but the question is whether it is absolutely the earliest
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 19, 2008
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      Alexander worshiping his God may well be the earliest example we know of in which the cross is used, but the question is whether it is absolutely the earliest example of the use of the cross is not thereby assured. Such a conclusion would be dubious since the power of ridicule lies in its reference to a known condition. I am simply saying that I am not sure that there wasn't a usage of the cross motif at a relatively early date, viz in the early 2nd century by the author of the Apocalypse (I hold to an unusual position with regard to that book). It is also difficult to forget Paul's emphasis upon the cross where the gospel was equated to "the word of the cross" and in which alone he claimed to glory. It is but a short step to the cross being used as a graphic symbol. This in no way impacts it usage in Jewish tradition so I was only reacting to your statement that you didn't believe that the cross was used as a symbol of Christianity that early. I
      would not expect Jews who did not convert to Christianity to use the cross with any Christian significance attached.

      george
      gfsomsel
      … search for truth, hear truth,
      learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
      defend the truth till death.

      - Jan Hus
      _________

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:04:37 AM
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Taws on ossuaries














      There is, however, a 2nd century Palatine Hill graffiti (in the imperial

      palace complex) of what is obviously Jesus on a cross with the head of a

      jackass and a boy worshipping. The scrawled inscription is "Alexander

      worships his god." In this the cross is used as a pejorative and it is the

      oldest depiction of a crucifixion. I can understand why Roman Christians

      would not have used this symbol of a Roman execution of Jesus that early.



      Jack



      Jack Kilmon

      San Antonio, TX



      ----- Original Message -----

      From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel@yahoo. com>

      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

      Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:10 PM

      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Taws on ossuaries



      > While Wikipedia is not to be trusted for technical matters, I think that

      > for simple matters of fact it is probably reliable. The article on the

      > catacombs of Rome seems to indicate that they date from late 2nd century.

      > I'm certain that the pictures they display are not exhaustive, but

      > nevertheless I saw no evidence of a cross.

      >

      > george

      > gfsomsel

      > … search for truth, hear truth,

      > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,

      > defend the truth till death.

      >

      > - Jan Hus

      > _________

      >

      > ----- Original Message ----

      > From: David Hall <dqhall59@yahoo. com>

      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

      > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:33:45 PM

      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Taws on ossuaries

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      > The early use of the cross shaped thus:

      >

      >

      >

      > +

      >

      > on some of the 30 ossuaries found in one tomb on the Mount of Evil

      > Council, Bat'n el Hawa, in 1837 by an Arab and published by

      > Clermont-Ganneau has been debated for some time without enough evidence

      > one way or the other.

      >

      >

      >

      > There is a symbol from a Jerusalem ossuary published by Clermont-Ganneau

      > that seems much more like later Christian symbols found throughout the

      > Mediterranean region.

      >

      >

      >

      > see No. 29: http://dqhall59. com/Charles_ Clermont_ Ganneau/page_

      > 411.htm

      >

      >

      >

      > Another inscription that might be of Christian origin was also published:

      >

      >

      >

      > http://dqhall59. com/Charles_ Clermont_ Ganneau/page_ 409.htm

      >

      >

      >

      > A reading of the web site cited above may produce more data to analyze.

      >

      >

      >

      > There was one tomb thought to be from the time of Diocletion at Khirbet

      > el Ain-Beit Nattif that was without a doubt a Christian tomb from the

      > symbols found there. See:

      >

      > Studium Biblicum Francisanum, Collectio Minor, #10,

      >

      > Archaeological Discoveries Relative to the Judeo Christians Historical

      > Survey

      >

      > Reprinted 1984, Franciscan Printing Press, Jerusalem.

      >

      >

      >

      > There were Christian burials in Roman era copper mining districts along

      > the Dead Sea - Red Sea rift valley. Christians were forced to serve as

      > slaves in the mining camps.

      >

      >

      >

      > David Q. Hall

      >

      > dqhall59@yahoo. com

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      > Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:

      >

      > I cannot be certain that the sfragis of Apoc. 7 is an actual

      > "sign" one

      >

      > makes with hand or stylus or reed as much as a "seal of approval." I am

      >

      > also not reading "mark of a taw" in Ezekiel but "place a MARK on their

      >

      > foreheads.." and that "mark" could have been anything, even a burned spot.

      >

      > I don't think the cross became a Christian symbol until the latter half of

      >

      > the 2nd century. In any event, I do not think crosses were Christian

      >

      > symbols before 70 CE when ossilegium in Palestine ended. The Talpiot tomb

      >

      > could just as easily date to the last two decades of the 1st century BCE.

      >

      > If ossilegium was, as I believe, neutral to the concept of resurrection it

      >

      > would explain the ossuary of Caiaphas, a Sadducee, and was a practice of

      >

      > both Sadducees and resurrection expectant Pharisees. I can see Pharisees

      >

      > placing an extra mark on their ossuaries for the end time resurrection of

      >

      > the bones which needed to be "restored" hence and abbreviation for TOB. I

      >

      > will need a clear indication of a TAW (which is not necessarily a

      >

      > crucifixion- type cross) on an undeniably Christian ossuary.

      >

      >

      >

      > Jack

      >

      >

      >

      > Jack Kilmon

      >

      > San Antonio, TX

      >

      >

      >

      > ----- Original Message -----

      >

      > From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel@yahoo. com>

      >

      > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

      >

      > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 11:41 AM

      >

      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Taws on ossuaries

      >

      >

      >

      >> At what time the cross was used by Christians and the TAW was used as a

      >

      >> representation for that may be questioned, but there is some indication

      >

      >> that it may have been in use by the early 2nd century. In the Apocalypse

      >

      >> chapter 7 it is forbidden to the angels who are restraining the

      >

      >> destructive winds to release them until the servants of God are sealed on

      >

      >> their forehead (λέγων· μὴ ἀδικήσητε τὴν

      >> γῆν μήτε τὴν θάλασσαν μήτε τὰ

      >

      >> δένδ�α, ἄχ�ι σφ�αγίσωμεν τοὺς

      >> δο�λους τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν �πὶ τῶν

      >> μετώπων α�τῶν

      >

      >> [LEGWN MH ADIKHSHTE THN GHN MHTE THN QALASSAN MHTE TA DENDRA, AXRI

      >

      >> SFRAGISWMEN TOUS DOULOUS TOU QEOU hHMWN EPI TWN METWPWN AUTWN]). This is

      >

      >> a relatively clear allusion to Ezek 9.4 where the scribes are to pass

      >

      >> through the city and mark those who grieve for the abominations which

      >> were

      >

      >> being committed. In the English translation this is not made clear, but

      >

      >> in the Hebrew it states וְהִתְוִיתָ תָּו

      >> עַל־מִצְחוֹת ×”Ö¸×�Ö²× Ö¸×©×�Ö´×™×�

      >

      >> [W:HiT:WiYTf T.fW (aL_MiCXoWT Hf):aNf$iYM] , i.e. "place the mark of a

      >> TAW

      >

      >> on their foreheads of the men …" In light of this it might be

      >> maintained

      >

      >> that the cross was then in use as a symbol of Christianity. This does not

      >

      >> exclude the possibility that the TAW may also have been used by the

      >

      >> Pharisees with a different significance.

      >

      >>

      >

      >> george

      >

      >> gfsomsel

      >

      >> … search for truth, hear truth,

      >

      >> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,

      >

      >> defend the truth till death.

      >

      >>

      >

      >> - Jan Hus

      >

      >> _________

      >

      >>

      >

      >> ----- Original Message ----

      >

      >> From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

      >

      >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com; biblical-studies@ yahoogroups. com

      >

      >> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:49:59 AM

      >

      >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Taws on ossuaries

      >

      >>

      >

      >> One of the ossuarial marks that fuels speculation that the

      >

      >> "resident" was a Christian is a TAW. I do not believe crosses were

      >

      >> symbols for Christians that early.

      >

      >>

      >

      >> The names inscribed (a better descriptive is "scrawled") on many

      >> ossuaries

      >

      >> were often by illiterates or semi-literates, misspelled and with bad

      >

      >> grammar when they go beyond the names alone. The "Yeshua" Talpiot

      >

      >> ossuary...more precisely Rachmani 704..is one of the worse.

      >

      >>

      >

      >> Having studied many of these ossuaries first hand in Jerusalem, I think

      >

      >> the TAW is a Pharisaic mark placed on the ossuaries as an abbreviation of

      >

      >> TOB(Judean Aramaic)...taw- waw-beyt. .meaning "return" or "restore."

      >

      >>

      >

      >> As I stated in a previous post, I believe ossilegium more related to

      >> Deut.

      >

      >> 31:16; 2Sam 7:12; 1 King 1:21...shakab at abtyk..."sleep with your

      >

      >> fathers" than with resurrection. Perhaps the "restore" placed on an

      >

      >> ossuary before or after a name, on the lid or on a tomb entrance stone is

      >

      >> the mark of a Pharisaic burial and the only element of ossuarial practice

      >

      >> related to resurrection.

      >

      >>

      >

      >> Comments?

      >

      >>

      >

      >> Jack

      >

      >>

      >

      >> Jack Kilmon

      >

      >> San Antonio, TX









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