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Re: David Stacey's observations/inkwells/use of term "sectarian"

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  • kessler_paul
    I ve looked at the link again -- http://tinyurl.com/2slc2s -- and I see there are two extended December 31 comments; the discussion of Joe Zias views on the
    Message 1 of 42 , Jan 1, 2008
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      I've looked at the link again -- http://tinyurl.com/2slc2s -- and I
      see there are two extended December 31 comments; the discussion of
      Joe Zias' views on the "toilets of Qumran" is in the first of the two
      comments in question. It's towards the bottom of the page but you
      need to scroll up a bit. Hope that helps you find it.

      Paul Kessler (New York, NY)


      --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "silverman_mark" <silverman_mark@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I don't see anything about putative Qumran toilets in the Dec. 31
      > comment on the link you've furnished.
      >
      > all the best,
      >
      > Mark Silverman
      >
      > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "kessler_paul" <kessler_paul@> wrote:
      > >
      > > "All male cemetery," how revealing! When I read such comments,
      I'm
      > > reminded of the famous line from Hamlet, "Out, damn'd spot! out,
      I
      > > say!" In this case, the spot is the remains of women that were
      dug up
      > > in the cemetery at Qumran. And surely Joe is aware that only a
      small
      > > proportion of the graves were actually opened. So to the extent
      he's
      > > implying that the cemetery at Qumran is really "all male," one
      must
      > > wonder how he arrived at this conclusion. Did he go there
      secretly
      > > one night and open all the graves? Were the buried women actually
      > > transvestites or, better yet, transexuals?
      > >
      > > "One of the few dissidents out there with something to say": one
      > > wonders if Joe, who is a former IAA curator, could possibly be
      > > implying that an entire series of major archaeologists, including
      > > most recently the officially appointed IAA team led by Magen and
      > > Peleg, are "dissidents." Coming from scholars, I tend to think
      that
      > > such claims usually reveal more about the people making them than
      > > about the people they refer to.
      > >
      > > Interestingly, it appears that Joe himself does have "something
      to
      > > say." There is a discussion of his views on the "toilets of
      Qumran"
      > > at this link: http://tinyurl.com/2slc2s (towards the bottom of
      the
      > > page, December 31st comment).
      > >
      > > Paul Kessler (New York, NY)
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Joe Zias <joezias@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Whereas David Stacy may be one of the few dissidents out there
      with
      > > something to say, due to his years of field experience in the
      desert,
      > > there is a article coming out or out by Emile Puech in the
      > > Festschrift for f.garcia.martinez, on Qumran which should put
      things
      > > to rest. It deals with the ostraca discovered by James Strange.
      > > >
      > > > As far as the remarks about Shufat being akin to Qumran, on the
      > > basis of some inkwells which are not from the same period, when
      they
      > > find an all male cemetery, no children, all of whom died young
      with
      > > no signs of violence, buried north-south, then I may walk along
      the
      > > road to Damascus for a bit.
      > >
      >
    • Dierk van den Berg
      The material culture in ancient Judaism was not group-specific !!! Herein I have to agree with Zangenberg et al. In so far Joe has an inspired dream, but
      Message 42 of 42 , Jan 14, 2008
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        The material culture in ancient Judaism was not group-specific !!!

        Herein I have to agree with Zangenberg et al. In so far Joe has an
        inspired dream, but that's already all.
        Whether or not a KhQ skeleton once belonged to an ancient terrorist
        (and that is what is actually behind the idealizing "Essene" legend)
        or not, we cannot extract simply from the bones, neither by means of
        logic nor with all my heart.

        NB to reach primary school, myself had to cross the local WW-I
        cemetery first, though this doesn't make me Wilheminic, isn't
        it?

        Dierk v/d Berg
        Nijmegen, Holland





        --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Joe Zias <joezias@...> wrote:
        >
        > Paul Smith asks the following :
        > What do the Qumran cemetery facts
        tell us about the origin and the
        > provenance of the scrolls?
        > The answer is very little but the cemetery tells us an enormous amt
        of info about the people living there who were IMHO , Essenes, who
        fished ,herded, potted ...and in order to get to three scroll caves
        on the plateau one had to cross into their site whether one liked it
        or not.
        >
        >
        >
        > Joe Zias
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Joe Zias www.joezias.com
        > Anthropology/Paleopathology
        >
        > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
        > Jerusalem, Israel
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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