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Re: [ANE-2] Re: David Stacey's observations/inkwells/use of term "sectarian"

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  • George F Somsel
    7. Cemetery. The main cemetery of Periods I and II is located 50 m E of the buildings and contains about 1,100 tombs, 26 of which were excavated by de Vaux
    Message 1 of 42 , Jan 1, 2008
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      7. Cemetery. The main cemetery of Periods I and II is located 50 m E of the buildings and contains about 1,100 tombs, 26 of which were excavated by de Vaux (1973: 45�48). The bodies were placed with their heads to the S in a cavity under the E wall of a trench, which was 1.2 m to 2 m deep. The tombs in the well-planned section nearest the buildings all contained male bodies, but some of those located in the extension of the cemetery over the hillocks to the E contained bodies of women and a child. Small secondary cemeteries on the terrace N of the buildings and at the foot of the terrace S of the wadi contained about 15 and 30 tombs, respectively. These contained male, female, and infant bodies (de Vaux 1973: 57�58). Very few of the individuals buried in these three cemeteries had passed their fortieth year (de Vaux 1973: 47).

      Freedman, D. N. (1996, c1992). The Anchor Bible Dictionary (5:593). New York: Doubleday.

      Unless you are supposing that the situation that the excavators found was purely chance, it would appear that the non-male burials were separate from the male burials which might be considered as sectarians. Why were some bodies, notably infants, women and some males separate from the rest?


      george
      gfsomsel

      Therefore, O faithful Christian, search for truth, hear truth,
      learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
      defend the truth till death.

      - Jan Hus
      _________



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: kessler_paul <kessler_paul@...>
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2008 4:58:11 PM
      Subject: [ANE-2] Re: David Stacey's observations/inkwells/use of term "sectarian"

      "All male cemetery," how revealing! When I read such comments, I'm
      reminded of the famous line from Hamlet, "Out, damn'd spot! out, I
      say!" In this case, the spot is the remains of women that were dug up
      in the cemetery at Qumran. And surely Joe is aware that only a small
      proportion of the graves were actually opened. So to the extent he's
      implying that the cemetery at Qumran is really "all male," one must
      wonder how he arrived at this conclusion. Did he go there secretly
      one night and open all the graves? Were the buried women actually
      transvestites or, better yet, transexuals?

      "One of the few dissidents out there with something to say": one
      wonders if Joe, who is a former IAA curator, could possibly be
      implying that an entire series of major archaeologists, including
      most recently the officially appointed IAA team led by Magen and
      Peleg, are "dissidents. " Coming from scholars, I tend to think that
      such claims usually reveal more about the people making them than
      about the people they refer to.

      Interestingly, it appears that Joe himself does have "something to
      say." There is a discussion of his views on the "toilets of Qumran"
      at this link: http://tinyurl. com/2slc2s (towards the bottom of the
      page, December 31st comment).

      Paul Kessler (New York, NY)

      --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, Joe Zias <joezias@... > wrote:
      >
      > Whereas David Stacy may be one of the few dissidents out there with
      something to say, due to his years of field experience in the desert,
      there is a article coming out or out by Emile Puech in the
      Festschrift for f.garcia.martinez, on Qumran which should put things
      to rest. It deals with the ostraca discovered by James Strange.
      >
      > As far as the remarks about Shufat being akin to Qumran, on the
      basis of some inkwells which are not from the same period, when they
      find an all male cemetery, no children, all of whom died young with
      no signs of violence, buried north-south, then I may walk along the
      road to Damascus for a bit. .



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dierk van den Berg
      The material culture in ancient Judaism was not group-specific !!! Herein I have to agree with Zangenberg et al. In so far Joe has an inspired dream, but
      Message 42 of 42 , Jan 14, 2008
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        The material culture in ancient Judaism was not group-specific !!!

        Herein I have to agree with Zangenberg et al. In so far Joe has an
        inspired dream, but that's already all.
        Whether or not a KhQ skeleton once belonged to an ancient terrorist
        (and that is what is actually behind the idealizing "Essene" legend)
        or not, we cannot extract simply from the bones, neither by means of
        logic nor with all my heart.

        NB to reach primary school, myself had to cross the local WW-I
        cemetery first, though this doesn't make me Wilheminic, isn't
        it?

        Dierk v/d Berg
        Nijmegen, Holland





        --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Joe Zias <joezias@...> wrote:
        >
        > Paul Smith asks the following :
        > What do the Qumran cemetery facts
        tell us about the origin and the
        > provenance of the scrolls?
        > The answer is very little but the cemetery tells us an enormous amt
        of info about the people living there who were IMHO , Essenes, who
        fished ,herded, potted ...and in order to get to three scroll caves
        on the plateau one had to cross into their site whether one liked it
        or not.
        >
        >
        >
        > Joe Zias
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Joe Zias www.joezias.com
        > Anthropology/Paleopathology
        >
        > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
        > Jerusalem, Israel
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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