Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ANE-2] Provenance question

Expand Messages
  • David Hall
    Not sure about the tablet cited, but there were some Jewish incantation bowls found at Nippur: http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4240/nippur.html There
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 4, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Not sure about the tablet cited, but there were some Jewish incantation bowls found at Nippur:

      http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4240/nippur.html

      There is also a monument supposed to be the tomb of Ezekiel at Kefir. It was documented by Loftus in the 19th century:

      http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=562&letter=E


      David Q. Hall
      dqhall59@...


      "William D. Tallman" <wdtallman@...> wrote:
      Hello,

      In pursuing a rumor that the expatriate Jerusalemites had obtained a
      place of residence outside of the city of Babylon, I was referred to an
      article by Andre Lemaire in BAR Nov/Dec 2005 "The Universal God". On
      page 58 of that issue is a photograph of a cuneiform tablet, which,
      according to Lemaire, contains a reference to "al Yahudu" as a city in
      Babylonia, "as if it were called 'New Jerusalem'".

      This artifact is given as a part of the Mousaieff collection. IIUC,
      that collection is not well regarded, and may even include forgeries.
      Does anyone know of this artifact, and if so, is it genuine? If it is,
      what is its provenance?

      Thanks all,

      William D. Tallman
      343 Fleming Drive
      Sequim, WA 98382
      (360) 681-0247






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rafal Kolinski
      The tomb of Ezekiel (in Arabic Thi al-Kifl) is located in the town of Al-Kifl, on the way from al-Hilla to an-Najaf, about 30 km south of al-Hilla. The
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 5, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        The tomb of Ezekiel (in Arabic Thi al-Kifl) is located in the town of Al-Kifl, on the way from al-Hilla to an-Najaf, about 30 km south of al-Hilla. The mausoleum of Thi al-Kifl and a mosque/synagogue serving as his shrine (built in XIVth cent AD) is mentioned in the small publications of SBAH "Religious Sites on Iraq" (copiled by Sabah M. Jassim), Bahgdad 1992, on pages 51-52. The building was in good shape after the 2003 war, and while in use by Arabic community, still held several inscriptions in Hebrew.
        I can provide interested persons with some pictures off-list.

        Rafal Kolinski, PhD
        Institute of Prehistory
        Adam Mickiewicz University,
        PoznaƱ, Poland

        David Hall <dqhall59@...> wrote:
        Not sure about the tablet cited, but there were some Jewish incantation bowls found at Nippur:

        http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4240/nippur.html

        There is also a monument supposed to be the tomb of Ezekiel at Kefir. It was documented by Loftus in the 19th century:

        http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=562&letter=E


        David Q. Hall
        dqhall59@...


        "William D. Tallman" <wdtallman@...> wrote:
        Hello,

        In pursuing a rumor that the expatriate Jerusalemites had obtained a
        place of residence outside of the city of Babylon, I was referred to an
        article by Andre Lemaire in BAR Nov/Dec 2005 "The Universal God". On
        page 58 of that issue is a photograph of a cuneiform tablet, which,
        according to Lemaire, contains a reference to "al Yahudu" as a city in
        Babylonia, "as if it were called 'New Jerusalem'".

        This artifact is given as a part of the Mousaieff collection. IIUC,
        that collection is not well regarded, and may even include forgeries.
        Does anyone know of this artifact, and if so, is it genuine? If it is,
        what is its provenance?

        Thanks all,

        William D. Tallman
        343 Fleming Drive
        Sequim, WA 98382
        (360) 681-0247

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        ---------------------------------
        For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kevin P. Edgecomb
        And here is a photograph taken In the shrine of Ezekiel s Tomb, Kifel , taken in 1932: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?matpc:2:./temp/~pp_tJj9:: The
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 5, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          And here is a photograph taken "In the shrine of Ezekiel's Tomb, Kifel", taken in 1932:

          http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?matpc:2:./temp/~pp_tJj9::

          The Library of Congress collection of the Matson Photo Archive negatives is completely (or very nearly so) online, and searchable for the content in the bibliographic records. The Matson offices were established in the American Colony in Jerusalem, and thus record many landscape, architectural, and ethnographic views which were already recognized as vanishing in the region. Likewise, they made quite a bit of money catering to the "armchair pilgrim" through their themed collections of religious sites, etc. Their photographers travelled throughout the Near East, from the late 1800s into the middle of the twentieth century, covering the entire Fertile Crescent.

          It's entirely possible to lose several hours browsing through the photographs shown, which are generated by LC directly from the negatives, and available online at different resolutions. It's a fantastic resource.

          Regards,
          Kevin P. Edgecomb
          Berkeley, California


          ---- <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
          >
          > Not sure about the tablet cited, but there were some Jewish incantation bowls found at Nippur:
          >
          > http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4240/nippur.html
          >
          > There is also a monument supposed to be the tomb of Ezekiel at Kefir. It was documented by Loftus in the 19th century:
          >
          > http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=562&letter=E
        • Kevin P. Edgecomb
          A list member has informed me offlist that the link I included to the Matson Photo Archives doesn t work. I apologize for that. Users may search for any of
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 6, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            A list member has informed me offlist that the link I included to the Matson
            Photo Archives doesn't work. I apologize for that. Users may search for
            any of the photographs from this page:
            http://memory.loc.gov/pp/matpcquery.html

            Regards,
            Kevin P. Edgecomb
            Berkeley, California
          • William D. Tallman
            My apologies for the tardy response. My thanks to Messrs. Hall, Kolinski and Edgecomb for their responses. I appreciated the reference to the Matson Photo
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 7, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              My apologies for the tardy response.

              My thanks to Messrs. Hall, Kolinski and Edgecomb for their responses. I
              appreciated the reference to the Matson Photo Archive!

              The Ezekiel Tomb is, or was, extant as recently as a year ago, according
              to my web search. Looks like a wall and what appears to be a gate house
              has been taken down since the late 19th century, but the main structure
              seems relatively unchanged. I gather that nothing is known for certain
              about what was there during the time of the Judahite exile.

              The curse of sloppy scholarship, or in my case the lack thereof, is that
              references go missing: I cannot find the reference to a cuneiform
              tablet that recorded the yearly food(?) allotment to the Judahites after
              the death of Nebuchadrezzer II. It was reading through the translation
              of that which put me in mind of a bill of lading. There is mention of
              the allotment in Septuagint texts, but one gathers therefrom that the
              Judahite elite dined at the court.

              I wondered if the yearly list might not indicate that the allotment was
              shipped somewhere; otherwise, why record what could just as well have
              been part of the court food consumption? Hence the interest in
              determining what evidence there was/is for some external site.

              I had tentatively concluded that such a site would be located near the
              Euphrates, and would not be north of Babylon; apparently the Persians
              did not encounter it after the battle at Opis and they would not have
              been north of the line of defense that is said to have passed from the
              Euphrates to the Tigris at Opis.

              So a site south of Babylon seems reasonable, at least in this tyro's
              view.

              Lemaire's suggestion that such a site existed and was known as New
              Jerusalem seemed worth pursuing, but the image in the BAR NovDec 2005
              looked far too fresh and undamaged, and the "provenance" I knew to be a
              matter of controversy.

              In any case, thanks again to all.

              William D. Tallman
              343 Fleming Drive
              Sequim, WA 98382
              (360) 681-0247
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.