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Re: [ANE-2] Re: Info. about ANET

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  • Kevin P. Edgecomb
    Mr Dillbeck, you will find that ANET is far more comprehensive than either of the other two titles mentioned. While each includes some texts that ANET
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
      Mr Dillbeck, you will find that ANET is far more comprehensive than either of the other two titles mentioned. While each includes some texts that ANET doesn't, ANET includes many more texts above what either of the other includes, and more variety, particularly in the number of historical texts. The biggest problem with ANET is simply that the translations are old now. COS is three volumes, but with much more white space on the pages, and many more notes and introductions to each text, for instance. (I don't have the Chavalas volume, so can't comment on it in similar detail.) You'll also find that over the past decades, and even since the appearance of COS, ANET has been continually cited. It'd be a good volume to have if you had to choose between them.

      I put together an index of texts in common to both ANET and COS, here:
      http://www.bombaxo.com/cosanet.html
      As you can see, the number of titles in both is not really all that many.

      Regards,
      Kevin P. Edgecomb
      Berkeley, California

      ---- <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      >
      > After reading the review of Chavalas' book, and what you have said
      > regarding Hallo and ANET,it seems that Hallo would be the most
      > recent, most exhaustive source. However, it is far more expensive
      > than ANET and certainly more than Chavalas (which seems to be a
      > bargain imo). I may just go with ANET and pick up the texts that are
      > left out somewhere else.
      > Will Dilbeck
      >
      >
      > -- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Cooper" <marc.cooper@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Here's an online review of the Chavalas book:
      > >
      > > http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2006/2006-12-33.html
      > >
      > > Marc Cooper
      > >
      > > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > A review of the Chavalas volume has just been posted to the RBL
      > > site -- the reviewer notes that it contains _only_ historical
      > texts,
      > > and it omits Egypt entirely.
      > > > --
      > > > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message ----
      > > > From: "sbudin@" <sbudin@>
      > > > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:26:09 AM
      > > > Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Info. about ANET
      > > >
      > > > So, would Chavalas's _The Ancient Near East: Historical Sources
      > in
      > > > Translation_ be a better option?
      > > >
      > > > -Stephanie Budin
      > > >
      > > > Quoting victor <victor@bgumail. bgu.ac.il>:
      > > >
      > > > > ANET3 has many more texts than the 2nd edition and is a much
      > > larger volume.
      > > > > Although it is now forty years old and has been joined on the
      > > scholarly
      > > > > bookshelf by the three volume Context of Scripture and many
      > other
      > > less
      > > > > comprehensive anthologies, I think it can still be used
      > although
      > > not
      > > > > blindly.
      > > > > _____
      > > > >
      > > > > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. com] On
      > > Behalf Of
      > > > > barahadamah
      > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:09 PM
      > > > > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
      > > > > Subject: [ANE-2] Info. about ANET
      > > > >
      > > > > I was wondering if any of you had information regarding
      > > Pritchard's
      > > > > Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament.
      > > > >
      > > > > I would like to know if the 3rd edition has more translations
      > of
      > > texts
      > > > > or if it is just simply a reprinting of the second edition.
      > > > > Furthermore, have any of you used it extensively?
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • George Athas
      Just to add to Victor s message, the 3-volume Context of Scripture (COS) was, I believe, envisioned as a replacement for ANET. It is certainly more
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
        Just to add to Victor's message, the 3-volume Context of Scripture (COS) was, I believe, envisioned
        as a replacement for ANET. It is certainly more comprehensive and includes some fuller introductory
        sections. It is an excellent tool which, in my estimation, has replaced ANET.

        A great idea would be for COS to replace ANEP also. Does anyone know if such a project is in the
        offing?


        Best Regards,

        GEORGE ATHAS
        Moore Theological College (Sydney)
        1 King St, Newtown, NSW 2042, Australia
        Ph: (+61 2) 9577 9774





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Robertson
        Actually, I ve taught for 25 years now, with some success (if my students comments are credible), an undergrad survey, The Near East to Alexander, that
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
          Actually, I've taught for 25 years now, with some success (if my
          students' comments are credible), an undergrad survey, The Near East to
          Alexander, that includes a large component in Egyptian history (to the
          end of the New Kingdom) as well as briefer treatment of Minoan,
          Mycenaean, and Harappan civilizations. William Stiebing's text has
          proven very useful for the course. Obviously, I have to be selective in
          what I can focus on in lecture, and much of the course is
          Mesopotamia-centric because that's my particular strength. But one of
          the themes I hammer throughout the course is connections: exchange,
          diplomacy, interactions - and to do that without examining (e.g.) the
          Uruk-style influences in late Predynastic Egypt, or Egyptian intrusion
          into Syria-Palestine during the early periods, or
          Mesopotamian-Indus-Central Asian interaction, or the implications of the
          Ulu Burun stuff, or even what's going on in Egypt and the royal court at
          Akhetaten during the Amarna age - would make the course less rich.

          I truly admire Marc's text on the ANE, but decided not to adopt it for
          my course because he didn't include Egypt. Likewise, I admire Mark
          Chavalas' primary-sources text, but again, because he decided against
          including any Egyptian sources and also limited his selections to
          "historical" texts, I couldn't adopt it. Personally, I would be very
          happy to see someone come out with something like an up-to-date,
          affordable new version of the "baby" ANET.

          John Robertson
          Central Michigan University

          Marc Cooper wrote:
          >
          > Peter brings up an interesting point, the redefinition of ANE to
          > include southwestern Asia and exclude northeasern Africa. Marc van de
          > Mieroop argues the issue in the preface of his textbook by saying
          > that there is too much material in ANE to include Egypt and western
          > Asia in one text.
          >
          > I have found that attempting to teach both Egypt and Mesopotamia
          > together with its cultural sphere in a semester course makes for a
          > bad fit. You can get in Hammurabi and King Tut, but then you have to
          > leave out the entire first millennium. My course now is purely
          > Mesopotamia and its cultural sphere from the origins of agriculture
          > to the burning of Persepolis.
          >
          > Are there others who have revised their courses in the same way?
          >
          > Marc Cooper
          > Missouri State University
          >
          > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>, "Peter
          > T. Daniels" <grammatim@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > A review of the Chavalas volume has just been posted to the RBL
          > site -- the reviewer notes that it contains _only_ historical texts,
          > and it omits Egypt entirely.
          > > --
          > > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Niels Peter Lemche
          Kevin is right. Moreover, because it is in three volumes, COS is more difficult to use. The arrangement is less clear than ANET s, and sometimes the decisions
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
            Kevin is right. Moreover, because it is in three volumes, COS is more
            difficult to use. The arrangement is less clear than ANET's, and
            sometimes the decisions made by the editors of ANET are the best.

            I use both of them regularly. Besides COS is available in a paperback
            edition, not cheap but affordable -- but how would it look after a
            couple of years? My ANET looks like my BHS: Almost fallen apart (bought
            my copy in 1965).

            Maybe I should invest in Chavalas, but at the moment find it more useful
            to supplement ANET and COS with series like the SBL translations series
            (Writings from the Ancient World), and the French that includes the
            complete translation of the Mari texts.

            The concentration on history in Chavalas seems unfortunate. TH ANE has
            more to give than historical information. I will not judge the
            collection before I see it, but may ask if it is a reflection of the
            collector's personal standing. Conservative biblical scholarship has
            been predominantly occupied with historical matters.

            Niels Peter Lemche
          • Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
            ANET3 remains a good reference, if you are not deterred by the dated style of most of its translations (the inscriptions for example) and keep in mind the,
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 26, 2007
              ANET3 remains a good reference, if you are not deterred by the dated style of most of its translations (the inscriptions for example) and keep in mind the, obviously antiquated, state of the cuneiform and hieroglyphic philology it builds upon (beware of using it preferably to the existing anthologies of Mesopotamian literature), because it offers in a relatively brief compass many materials which are not recorded in COS. Kaiser's 4 volumes (in several fascicles each) of Texte aus der Umwelt des Alten Testament (Gütersloh, 1982-2001) are, in my own opinion, more rewarding than either ANET3 and COS because of their greater variety of documents. Extensive introductions and notes as in COS are good (the scientific apparatus in Dalley's Myths from Mesopotamia, Jacobsen's Harps that Once or Foster's Before the Muses being admittedly too slight ; the good balance seems to me to have be stricken by Bottéro and Kramer in their Quand les dieux faisaient l'homme), but, given the level of empty space which was allowed by Brill to adorn most of the pages, the collection could have included more texts or, at the very least, avoided giving only extracts of documents.

              A great idea too would be for a publisher in the reprinting business, like Olms, to give us a copy of several exemplary editions of major texts, now very scarce, such as Cagni's Erra, Wilcke's Lugalbanda or Copper's Curse of Agade, each of which offers a major commentary.

              J.-F. Nardelli


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: George Athas
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:35 AM
              Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Info. about ANET


              Just to add to Victor's message, the 3-volume Context of Scripture (COS) was, I believe, envisioned
              as a replacement for ANET. It is certainly more comprehensive and includes some fuller introductory
              sections. It is an excellent tool which, in my estimation, has replaced ANET.

              A great idea would be for COS to replace ANEP also. Does anyone know if such a project is in the
              offing?


              Best Regards,

              GEORGE ATHAS
              Moore Theological College (Sydney)
              1 King St, Newtown, NSW 2042, Australia
              Ph: (+61 2) 9577 9774

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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            • Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
              I meant of course J. S. Cooper s Curse of Agade (a book one can find at second-hand booksellers for an obscene price ; of Cagni [1969] and Wilcke there is no
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 26, 2007
                I meant of course J. S. Cooper's Curse of Agade (a book one can find at second-hand booksellers for an obscene price ; of Cagni [1969] and Wilcke there is no used copy).

                J.-F. Nardelli

                A great idea too would be for a publisher in the reprinting business, like Olms, to give us a copy of several exemplary editions of major texts, now very scarce, such as Cagni's Erra, Wilcke's Lugalbanda or Copper's Curse of Agade, each of which offers a major commentary.

                J.-F. Nardelli


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Groups
                J.-F. Nartdelli requested:
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 26, 2007
                  J.-F. Nartdelli requested:

                  << A great idea too would be for a publisher in the reprinting business,
                  like Olms, to give us a copy of several exemplary editions of major texts,
                  now very scarce, such as Cagni's Erra, Wilcke's Lugalbanda or Copper's Curse
                  of Agade, each of which offers a major commentary. >>

                  Unfortunately all three books are very much still in copyright. I doubt that
                  the effort needed to secure the necessary permission would be justified, but
                  will make enquiries.

                  Brian Yare
                  Yare Egyptology
                  http://www.yare.org/egypt
                • victor avigdor hurowitz
                  In all this discussion, we forgot an extremely important anthology, Ben Foster s Before the Muses, now in its third expanded and revised addition. It s a
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 26, 2007
                    In all this discussion, we forgot an extremely important anthology, Ben
                    Foster's Before the Muses, now in its third expanded and revised
                    addition. It's a wonderful collection of literary texts, but includes two
                    items whose literary flavour and nature are often overlooked because of
                    their content - the prologue and epilogue of Inu Anum Sirum (CH) and
                    Sargon's 8th campaign. Also, each item comes with an up to date
                    bibliography and there are also some glosses throughout of a philological
                    or literary nature. It's only Akkadian literature, but an absolute
                    must. By the way, unlike all the other anthologies, all the translations
                    in BM are done by Foster himself. A real tour d force
                    Best,
                    Victor
                    BGU


                    On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Jean-Fabrice Nardelli wrote:

                    > I meant of course J. S. Cooper's Curse of Agade (a book one can find at second-hand booksellers for an obscene price ; of Cagni [1969] and Wilcke there is no used copy).
                    >
                    > J.-F. Nardelli
                    >
                    > A great idea too would be for a publisher in the reprinting business, like Olms, to give us a copy of several exemplary editions of major texts, now very scarce, such as Cagni's Erra, Wilcke's Lugalbanda or Copper's Curse of Agade, each of which offers a major commentary.
                    >
                    > J.-F. Nardelli
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • James Spinti
                    If you are referring to Cagni s Das Erra-Epos (Studia Pohl 5), it is still in print (and in stock at Eisenbrauns, I might add). James
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 26, 2007
                      If you are referring to Cagni's Das Erra-Epos (Studia Pohl 5), it is
                      still in print (and in stock at Eisenbrauns, I might add).

                      James

                      ________________________________
                      James Spinti
                      Marketing Director, Book Sales Division
                      Eisenbrauns, Good books for more than 30 years
                      Specializing in Ancient Near Eastern and Biblical Studies
                      jspinti at eisenbrauns dot com
                      Web: http://www.eisenbrauns.com
                      Phone: 574-269-2011 ext 226
                      Fax: 574-269-6788



                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
                      > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:18 AM
                      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Info. about ANET
                      >
                      <snip>

                      >
                      > A great idea too would be for a publisher in the reprinting
                      > business, like Olms, to give us a copy of several exemplary
                      > editions of major texts, now very scarce, such as Cagni's
                      > Erra, Wilcke's Lugalbanda or Copper's Curse of Agade, each of
                      > which offers a major commentary.
                      >
                      > J.-F. Nardelli
                      >
                      >
                    • Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
                      No, I am referring to his La Epopea di Erra of 1969 (composite text with apparatus and Italian translation and commentary). J.-F. Nardelli ... From: James
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 26, 2007
                        No, I am referring to his La Epopea di Erra of 1969 (composite text with apparatus and Italian translation and commentary).

                        J.-F. Nardelli

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: James Spinti
                        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:19 PM
                        Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Info. about ANET


                        If you are referring to Cagni's Das Erra-Epos (Studia Pohl 5), it is
                        still in print (and in stock at Eisenbrauns, I might add).

                        James

                        ________________________________
                        James Spinti
                        Marketing Director, Book Sales Division
                        Eisenbrauns, Good books for more than 30 years
                        Specializing in Ancient Near Eastern and Biblical Studies
                        jspinti at eisenbrauns dot com
                        Web: http://www.eisenbrauns.com
                        Phone: 574-269-2011 ext 226
                        Fax: 574-269-6788

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
                        > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:18 AM
                        > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Info. about ANET
                        >
                        <snip>

                        >
                        > A great idea too would be for a publisher in the reprinting
                        > business, like Olms, to give us a copy of several exemplary
                        > editions of major texts, now very scarce, such as Cagni's
                        > Erra, Wilcke's Lugalbanda or Copper's Curse of Agade, each of
                        > which offers a major commentary.
                        >
                        > J.-F. Nardelli
                        >
                        >





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                      • barahadamah
                        Thanks to everyone for the responses. Based on what everyone has said, I may go ahead and purchase ANET-3 with the supplement. I may also check Before the
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 26, 2007
                          Thanks to everyone for the responses. Based on what everyone has
                          said, I may go ahead and purchase ANET-3 with the supplement. I may
                          also check "Before the Muses" as well.

                          Will Dilbeck



                          - In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, victor avigdor hurowitz <victor@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > In all this discussion, we forgot an extremely important anthology,
                          Ben
                          > Foster's Before the Muses, now in its third expanded and revised
                          > addition. It's a wonderful collection of literary texts, but
                          includes two
                          > items whose literary flavour and nature are often overlooked
                          because of
                          > their content - the prologue and epilogue of Inu Anum Sirum (CH) and
                          > Sargon's 8th campaign. Also, each item comes with an up to date
                          > bibliography and there are also some glosses throughout of a
                          philological
                          > or literary nature. It's only Akkadian literature, but an absolute
                          > must. By the way, unlike all the other anthologies, all the
                          translations
                          > in BM are done by Foster himself. A real tour d force
                          > Best,
                          > Victor
                          > BGU
                          >
                          >
                          > On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Jean-Fabrice Nardelli wrote:
                          >
                          > > I meant of course J. S. Cooper's Curse of Agade (a book one can
                          find at second-hand booksellers for an obscene price ; of Cagni
                          [1969] and Wilcke there is no used copy).
                          > >
                          > > J.-F. Nardelli
                          > >
                          > > A great idea too would be for a publisher in the reprinting
                          business, like Olms, to give us a copy of several exemplary editions
                          of major texts, now very scarce, such as Cagni's Erra, Wilcke's
                          Lugalbanda or Copper's Curse of Agade, each of which offers a major
                          commentary.
                          > >
                          > > J.-F. Nardelli
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • RUSSELLGMIRKIN@aol.com
                          Foster s anthology is a great collection, but I personally found his lack of exact textual line references in his to be extremely frustrating for citation
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 26, 2007
                            Foster's anthology is a great collection, but I personally found his lack of
                            exact textual line references in his to be extremely frustrating for
                            citation purposes.

                            Russell Gmirkin

                            In all this discussion, we forgot an extremely important anthology, Ben
                            Foster's Before the Muses, now in its third expanded and revised
                            addition. It's a wonderful collection of literary texts, but includes two
                            items whose literary flavour and nature are often overlooked because of
                            their content - the prologue and epilogue of Inu Anum Sirum (CH) and
                            Sargon's 8th campaign. Also, each item comes with an up to date
                            bibliography and there are also some glosses throughout of a philological
                            or literary nature. It's only Akkadian literature, but an absolute
                            must. By the way, unlike all the other anthologies, all the translations
                            in BM are done by Foster himself. A real tour d force
                            Best,
                            Victor
                            BGU






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