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Re: [ANE-2] Re: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?

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  • Tomáš Mar(ík
    Dear Ariel, did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, Münster 2000 [= AOAT
    Message 1 of 28 , May 1, 2007
      Dear Ariel,

      did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic
      Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, M�nster
      2000 [= AOAT 278/1]) where it is listed as No. 176?

      Tomas Marik
      tomas.marik@...

      Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:

      > At 07:53 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
      > >At 02:26 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
      > >>To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
      > >>From: "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@...
      > <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>>
      > >>Subject: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?
      > >
      > >[...]
      > >
      > >>La'a:tu [CAD-L, pp.6-7] is given as "to swallow" (variant of
      > >>"ala:tu"). In BH we have Lamed-Ayin-Tet [Strong 3938] which is more
      > >>"to gorge" than to swallow (regular swallowing being
      > >>Bet-Lamed-Ayin), and we have in later Hebrew (Mishna?)
      > >>Lamed-Ayin-Samech for "to chew".
      > >
      > >Since L(S is not BH, and I didn't recall chewing in the bible, I
      > >searched the English translations for "chew" - and up popped "chew
      > >the cud", using the (LH root (go up, climb, ascend, etc). I've
      > >always thought of "ma'ale gera" (ruminant) as "regurgitating cud",
      > >with the (LH meaning something like "bringing it up from the 1st
      > >stomach back into the mouth". But now, with la'a:tu / ala:tu, I'm
      > >not so sure anymore. Maybe "gera" already implies the regurgitating,
      > >which leaves "ma'ale" as what? Chewing? Reality check anyone?
      >
      > [still talking to myself ...]
      >
      > The "pan Semitic" root of la'a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a
      > core meaning of thing related to "throat". With "swallow" in BH being
      > BL(, the immediate suspect for its origin is "B-LW(" ("in throat").
      > Is this something historical linguistics can accept as happening, a
      > preposition becoming part of the root? I'm trying to think of other
      > examples but drawing a blank.
      >
      > The basic root for "chew" in Akkadian is KSS (and I think GS.S. too
      > {RS.S. in BH?} but I can't find my note) with a core meaning of "take
      > apart", "divide". BH has it e.g. as MKSH (quota), but it doesn't seem
      > to be attested in BH in relation to eating (though in modern Hebrew
      > it's the verb used for describing chewing the nails). The common root
      > for "chew" became later L(S and I can't find it as a root in the
      > older Semitic languages in my ref books (but they don't cover
      > everything). Where did this L(S come from?
      >
      > Ariel.
      >
      > [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]
      >
      > ---
      > Ariel L. Szczupak
      > AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
      > POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
      > Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
      > ane.als@... <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ariel L. Szczupak
      ... Just to be clear - I wasn t suggesting breaking or bending the rules, just suggesting electronic equivalents. I.e access to electronic compendia on
      Message 2 of 28 , May 1, 2007
        At 09:03 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:

        >AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same
        >result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries.
        >Being a state sponsored university, we have to keep to the rules.

        Just to be clear - I wasn't suggesting breaking or bending the rules,
        just suggesting electronic equivalents. I.e access to electronic
        compendia on university servers would be dependent on being enrolled
        in the relevant courses, etc. Something's wrong with the rules if
        universities of all places have to use outdated technologies.

        But I do understand that rules can be sometimes absurd - I'm facing
        such a situation myself just now :(

        I use dtSearch, a desktop search program that indexes files (like the
        Google & Copernic desktop search programs, but commercial and more
        powerful). Three days ago I noticed that it wasn't finding something
        I expected it to find in CAD-TET. Since the OI PDFs are "secured" I
        thought it might be a problem. I searched for the same term in Google
        and Google found it - i.e. the Google web "spider" was able to index that PDF.

        I contacted dtSearch and was thrown back to the 20th century, which
        in terms of technology is a long time ago.

        "Secured" PDFs (those you can't copy to the clipboard from) are
        encrypted, but that shouldn't have been a problem as PDF reading
        programs can decrypt them. They can be encrypted using 40-bit keys or
        128-bit keys. Back in the 20th century the US had strict rules
        against the export of 128-bit encryption technology and many programs
        came in two versions - US-domestic and export. These rules were
        relaxed around 1999 or 2000 (the last version of Internet Explorer
        for which there were separate domestic and export versions was IE 3.0).

        Anyone who is using today the Internet Explorer or FireFox web
        browsers is using 128-bit encryption technology to access secure web
        pages. Anyone buying Acrobat Professional from Adobe to create PDFs
        gets 128-bit encryption technology. That's anyone anywhere in the
        world - anyone who can download these programs. And anyone in the
        world can get the source code for 128-bit technology, not just the
        technology itself, from open source projects like Mozilla and OpenOffice.

        But dtSearch can't get a license from the US Bureau of Export
        Administration to include 128-bit encryption technology in its
        program, only 40-bit encryption. Why? Ask them. At the same time
        there are at least 3 programs that I can buy, from the US, that use
        128-bit encryption technology to strip the encryption from the PDFs
        altogether. And why is that? Again, ask them :(

        I don't want to make the OI PDFs un"secure", just to make finding
        things in them easier. I'll use the PDFs "as is", following the
        rules, not only without complaining but happy that I can access these
        CADs on my computer instead of at the library. But the situation is absurd.

        [It would be nice though if the OI, when creating these PDFs would
        use 40-bit encryption instead of 128-bit]



        Ariel.

        [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

        ---
        Ariel L. Szczupak
        AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
        POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
        Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
        ane.als@...
      • Ariel L. Szczupak
        ... No - because I don t have it. In my next library field day . Thanks for the ref. ... It being which of the roots I mentioned? ... Ariel. [100% bona fide
        Message 3 of 28 , May 1, 2007
          At 11:03 PM 5/1/2007, ík <tomas.marik@...> wrote:
          >Dear Ariel,
          >
          >did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic
          >Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, Münster
          >2000 [= AOAT 278/1])

          No - because I don't have it. In my next library "field day". Thanks
          for the ref.

          >where it is listed as No. 176?

          "It" being which of the roots I mentioned?


          >Tomas Marik
          >tomas.marik@...
          >
          >Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
          >
          > > At 07:53 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
          > > >At 02:26 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
          > > >>To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > >>From: "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@...
          > > <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>>
          > > >>Subject: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?
          > > >
          > > >[...]
          > > >
          > > >>La'a:tu [CAD-L, pp.6-7] is given as "to swallow" (variant of
          > > >>"ala:tu"). In BH we have Lamed-Ayin-Tet [Strong 3938] which is more
          > > >>"to gorge" than to swallow (regular swallowing being
          > > >>Bet-Lamed-Ayin), and we have in later Hebrew (Mishna?)
          > > >>Lamed-Ayin-Samech for "to chew".
          > > >
          > > >Since L(S is not BH, and I didn't recall chewing in the bible, I
          > > >searched the English translations for "chew" - and up popped "chew
          > > >the cud", using the (LH root (go up, climb, ascend, etc). I've
          > > >always thought of "ma'ale gera" (ruminant) as "regurgitating cud",
          > > >with the (LH meaning something like "bringing it up from the 1st
          > > >stomach back into the mouth". But now, with la'a:tu / ala:tu, I'm
          > > >not so sure anymore. Maybe "gera" already implies the regurgitating,
          > > >which leaves "ma'ale" as what? Chewing? Reality check anyone?
          > >
          > > [still talking to myself ...]
          > >
          > > The "pan Semitic" root of la'a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a
          > > core meaning of thing related to "throat". With "swallow" in BH being
          > > BL(, the immediate suspect for its origin is "B-LW(" ("in throat").
          > > Is this something historical linguistics can accept as happening, a
          > > preposition becoming part of the root? I'm trying to think of other
          > > examples but drawing a blank.
          > >
          > > The basic root for "chew" in Akkadian is KSS (and I think GS.S. too
          > > {RS.S. in BH?} but I can't find my note) with a core meaning of "take
          > > apart", "divide". BH has it e.g. as MKSH (quota), but it doesn't seem
          > > to be attested in BH in relation to eating (though in modern Hebrew
          > > it's the verb used for describing chewing the nails). The common root
          > > for "chew" became later L(S and I can't find it as a root in the
          > > older Semitic languages in my ref books (but they don't cover
          > > everything). Where did this L(S come from?
          > >
          > > Ariel.
          > >
          > > [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]
          > >
          > > ---
          > > Ariel L. Szczupak
          > > AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
          > > POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
          > > Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
          > > ane.als@... <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>
          > >



          Ariel.

          [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

          ---
          Ariel L. Szczupak
          AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
          POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
          Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
          ane.als@...
        • Allan Adler
          I think that, in a recent thread, maybe the one mentioned in the subject line, someone mentioned in passing that his students have to memorize Labat s Manuel.
          Message 4 of 28 , May 25, 2007
            I think that, in a recent thread, maybe the one mentioned in the subject
            line, someone mentioned in passing that his students have to memorize
            Labat's Manuel. I own Labat's book and wouldn't mind knowing how one
            goes about memorizing it. To me, it looks overwhelming.
            --
            Ignorantly,
            Allan Adler <ara@...>
            * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
            * comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
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