Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: SV: [ANE-2] Re: JSTORation (was: Re: More OI books online)

Expand Messages
  • Ariel L. Szczupak
    ... And are compendia still necessary when a 3M pixel digital camera will produce pictures of pages where even tiny footnotes are perfectly readable? Ariel.
    Message 1 of 28 , May 1 10:55 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      At 08:39 PM 5/1/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
      >At 07:09 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
      >>[...] So we continue putting together compendia in paper format,
      >>which is affordable but rather stupid when everything else is electronic.
      >
      >Actual paper? Why not as page images on a CD? Should be at least as
      >affordable and probably more convenient for the students. Or as
      >image archives for students on university servers. Copyright issues
      >shouldn't be any different than a paper compendium of xeroxed texts.

      And are compendia still necessary when a 3M pixel digital camera will
      produce pictures of pages where even tiny footnotes are perfectly readable?



      Ariel.

      [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

      ---
      Ariel L. Szczupak
      AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
      POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
      Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
      ane.als@...
    • Niels Peter Lemche
      Well, I am afraid it is. We have made investigations, and the result was: it s the same. Could be a local arrangement, but it is an official system, state
      Message 2 of 28 , May 1 11:02 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Well, I am afraid it is. We have made investigations, and the result was: it's the same. Could be a local arrangement, but it is an official system, state sponsored. The moment the material is electronically readable, the mouse trap works.

        Niels Peter Lemche



        -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
        Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ariel L. Szczupak
        Sendt: 1. maj 2007 19:39
        Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] Re: JSTORation (was: Re: More OI books online)

        At 07:09 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
        >[...] So we continue putting together compendia in paper format,
        >which is affordable but rather stupid when everything else is electronic.

        Actual paper? Why not as page images on a CD? Should be at least as
        affordable and probably more convenient for the students. Or as image
        archives for students on university servers. Copyright issues
        shouldn't be any different than a paper compendium of xeroxed texts.




        Ariel.

        [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

        ---
        Ariel L. Szczupak
        AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
        POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
        Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
        ane.als@...




        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Niels Peter Lemche
        AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries. Being a state sponsored
        Message 3 of 28 , May 1 11:03 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries. Being a state sponsored university, we have to keep to the rules.

          Niels Peter Lemche

          -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
          Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ariel L. Szczupak
          Sendt: 1. maj 2007 19:56
          Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] Re: JSTORation (was: Re: More OI books online)

          At 08:39 PM 5/1/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
          >At 07:09 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
          >>[...] So we continue putting together compendia in paper format,
          >>which is affordable but rather stupid when everything else is electronic.
          >
          >Actual paper? Why not as page images on a CD? Should be at least as
          >affordable and probably more convenient for the students. Or as
          >image archives for students on university servers. Copyright issues
          >shouldn't be any different than a paper compendium of xeroxed texts.

          And are compendia still necessary when a 3M pixel digital camera will
          produce pictures of pages where even tiny footnotes are perfectly readable?



          Ariel.

          [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

          ---
          Ariel L. Szczupak
          AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
          POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
          Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
          ane.als@...




          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Cynthia Edenburg
          I work full-time at a state sponsered distance learning institution which has a very limited hard-copy library. Our students are spread across the country, and
          Message 4 of 28 , May 1 12:29 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            I work full-time at a state sponsered distance learning institution
            which has a very limited hard-copy library. Our students are spread
            across the country, and some study from abroad. Many of the students
            never visit our physical campus (particularly since we relocated to a
            site not easily accessable by public transportation). For this reason,
            our library has invested in electronic collections such as JSTOR and
            ATLAS as well as Oxford e-books, etc, all of which are accessable to
            students and staff.
            All of our published study material includes selected readings from
            secondary literature, and a good portion of the course development
            budget goes to purchasing reproduction rights for copyrighted material.
            Concern over copyright issues are so great that we have been given
            strict instructions not to upload e-copies of articles or images to any
            part of the university web site to which there is free access.
            Cynthia Edenburg
            The Open University of Israel

            --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Niels Peter Lemche" <npl@...> wrote:
            >
            > AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same
            result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries.
            Being a state sponsored university, we have to keep to the rules.
            >
            > Niels Peter Lemche
            >
          • Ariel L. Szczupak
            ... [still talking to myself ...] The pan Semitic root of la a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a core meaning of thing related to throat . With swallow
            Message 5 of 28 , May 1 12:38 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              At 07:53 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
              >At 02:26 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
              >>To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              >>From: "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@...>
              >>Subject: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?
              >
              >[...]
              >
              >>La'a:tu [CAD-L, pp.6-7] is given as "to swallow" (variant of
              >>"ala:tu"). In BH we have Lamed-Ayin-Tet [Strong 3938] which is more
              >>"to gorge" than to swallow (regular swallowing being
              >>Bet-Lamed-Ayin), and we have in later Hebrew (Mishna?)
              >>Lamed-Ayin-Samech for "to chew".
              >
              >Since L(S is not BH, and I didn't recall chewing in the bible, I
              >searched the English translations for "chew" - and up popped "chew
              >the cud", using the (LH root (go up, climb, ascend, etc). I've
              >always thought of "ma'ale gera" (ruminant) as "regurgitating cud",
              >with the (LH meaning something like "bringing it up from the 1st
              >stomach back into the mouth". But now, with la'a:tu / ala:tu, I'm
              >not so sure anymore. Maybe "gera" already implies the regurgitating,
              >which leaves "ma'ale" as what? Chewing? Reality check anyone?

              [still talking to myself ...]

              The "pan Semitic" root of la'a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a
              core meaning of thing related to "throat". With "swallow" in BH being
              BL(, the immediate suspect for its origin is "B-LW(" ("in throat").
              Is this something historical linguistics can accept as happening, a
              preposition becoming part of the root? I'm trying to think of other
              examples but drawing a blank.

              The basic root for "chew" in Akkadian is KSS (and I think GS.S. too
              {RS.S. in BH?} but I can't find my note) with a core meaning of "take
              apart", "divide". BH has it e.g. as MKSH (quota), but it doesn't seem
              to be attested in BH in relation to eating (though in modern Hebrew
              it's the verb used for describing chewing the nails). The common root
              for "chew" became later L(S and I can't find it as a root in the
              older Semitic languages in my ref books (but they don't cover
              everything). Where did this L(S come from?



              Ariel.

              [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

              ---
              Ariel L. Szczupak
              AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
              POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
              Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
              ane.als@...
            • Tomáš Mar(ík
              Dear Ariel, did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, Münster 2000 [= AOAT
              Message 6 of 28 , May 1 1:03 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Ariel,

                did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic
                Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, M�nster
                2000 [= AOAT 278/1]) where it is listed as No. 176?

                Tomas Marik
                tomas.marik@...

                Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:

                > At 07:53 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                > >At 02:26 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                > >>To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >>From: "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@...
                > <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>>
                > >>Subject: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?
                > >
                > >[...]
                > >
                > >>La'a:tu [CAD-L, pp.6-7] is given as "to swallow" (variant of
                > >>"ala:tu"). In BH we have Lamed-Ayin-Tet [Strong 3938] which is more
                > >>"to gorge" than to swallow (regular swallowing being
                > >>Bet-Lamed-Ayin), and we have in later Hebrew (Mishna?)
                > >>Lamed-Ayin-Samech for "to chew".
                > >
                > >Since L(S is not BH, and I didn't recall chewing in the bible, I
                > >searched the English translations for "chew" - and up popped "chew
                > >the cud", using the (LH root (go up, climb, ascend, etc). I've
                > >always thought of "ma'ale gera" (ruminant) as "regurgitating cud",
                > >with the (LH meaning something like "bringing it up from the 1st
                > >stomach back into the mouth". But now, with la'a:tu / ala:tu, I'm
                > >not so sure anymore. Maybe "gera" already implies the regurgitating,
                > >which leaves "ma'ale" as what? Chewing? Reality check anyone?
                >
                > [still talking to myself ...]
                >
                > The "pan Semitic" root of la'a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a
                > core meaning of thing related to "throat". With "swallow" in BH being
                > BL(, the immediate suspect for its origin is "B-LW(" ("in throat").
                > Is this something historical linguistics can accept as happening, a
                > preposition becoming part of the root? I'm trying to think of other
                > examples but drawing a blank.
                >
                > The basic root for "chew" in Akkadian is KSS (and I think GS.S. too
                > {RS.S. in BH?} but I can't find my note) with a core meaning of "take
                > apart", "divide". BH has it e.g. as MKSH (quota), but it doesn't seem
                > to be attested in BH in relation to eating (though in modern Hebrew
                > it's the verb used for describing chewing the nails). The common root
                > for "chew" became later L(S and I can't find it as a root in the
                > older Semitic languages in my ref books (but they don't cover
                > everything). Where did this L(S come from?
                >
                > Ariel.
                >
                > [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]
                >
                > ---
                > Ariel L. Szczupak
                > AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                > POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                > Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                > ane.als@... <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ariel L. Szczupak
                ... Just to be clear - I wasn t suggesting breaking or bending the rules, just suggesting electronic equivalents. I.e access to electronic compendia on
                Message 7 of 28 , May 1 3:11 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  At 09:03 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:

                  >AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same
                  >result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries.
                  >Being a state sponsored university, we have to keep to the rules.

                  Just to be clear - I wasn't suggesting breaking or bending the rules,
                  just suggesting electronic equivalents. I.e access to electronic
                  compendia on university servers would be dependent on being enrolled
                  in the relevant courses, etc. Something's wrong with the rules if
                  universities of all places have to use outdated technologies.

                  But I do understand that rules can be sometimes absurd - I'm facing
                  such a situation myself just now :(

                  I use dtSearch, a desktop search program that indexes files (like the
                  Google & Copernic desktop search programs, but commercial and more
                  powerful). Three days ago I noticed that it wasn't finding something
                  I expected it to find in CAD-TET. Since the OI PDFs are "secured" I
                  thought it might be a problem. I searched for the same term in Google
                  and Google found it - i.e. the Google web "spider" was able to index that PDF.

                  I contacted dtSearch and was thrown back to the 20th century, which
                  in terms of technology is a long time ago.

                  "Secured" PDFs (those you can't copy to the clipboard from) are
                  encrypted, but that shouldn't have been a problem as PDF reading
                  programs can decrypt them. They can be encrypted using 40-bit keys or
                  128-bit keys. Back in the 20th century the US had strict rules
                  against the export of 128-bit encryption technology and many programs
                  came in two versions - US-domestic and export. These rules were
                  relaxed around 1999 or 2000 (the last version of Internet Explorer
                  for which there were separate domestic and export versions was IE 3.0).

                  Anyone who is using today the Internet Explorer or FireFox web
                  browsers is using 128-bit encryption technology to access secure web
                  pages. Anyone buying Acrobat Professional from Adobe to create PDFs
                  gets 128-bit encryption technology. That's anyone anywhere in the
                  world - anyone who can download these programs. And anyone in the
                  world can get the source code for 128-bit technology, not just the
                  technology itself, from open source projects like Mozilla and OpenOffice.

                  But dtSearch can't get a license from the US Bureau of Export
                  Administration to include 128-bit encryption technology in its
                  program, only 40-bit encryption. Why? Ask them. At the same time
                  there are at least 3 programs that I can buy, from the US, that use
                  128-bit encryption technology to strip the encryption from the PDFs
                  altogether. And why is that? Again, ask them :(

                  I don't want to make the OI PDFs un"secure", just to make finding
                  things in them easier. I'll use the PDFs "as is", following the
                  rules, not only without complaining but happy that I can access these
                  CADs on my computer instead of at the library. But the situation is absurd.

                  [It would be nice though if the OI, when creating these PDFs would
                  use 40-bit encryption instead of 128-bit]



                  Ariel.

                  [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

                  ---
                  Ariel L. Szczupak
                  AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                  POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                  Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                  ane.als@...
                • Ariel L. Szczupak
                  ... No - because I don t have it. In my next library field day . Thanks for the ref. ... It being which of the roots I mentioned? ... Ariel. [100% bona fide
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 1 3:22 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    At 11:03 PM 5/1/2007, ík <tomas.marik@...> wrote:
                    >Dear Ariel,
                    >
                    >did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic
                    >Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, Münster
                    >2000 [= AOAT 278/1])

                    No - because I don't have it. In my next library "field day". Thanks
                    for the ref.

                    >where it is listed as No. 176?

                    "It" being which of the roots I mentioned?


                    >Tomas Marik
                    >tomas.marik@...
                    >
                    >Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                    >
                    > > At 07:53 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                    > > >At 02:26 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                    > > >>To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > >>From: "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@...
                    > > <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>>
                    > > >>Subject: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?
                    > > >
                    > > >[...]
                    > > >
                    > > >>La'a:tu [CAD-L, pp.6-7] is given as "to swallow" (variant of
                    > > >>"ala:tu"). In BH we have Lamed-Ayin-Tet [Strong 3938] which is more
                    > > >>"to gorge" than to swallow (regular swallowing being
                    > > >>Bet-Lamed-Ayin), and we have in later Hebrew (Mishna?)
                    > > >>Lamed-Ayin-Samech for "to chew".
                    > > >
                    > > >Since L(S is not BH, and I didn't recall chewing in the bible, I
                    > > >searched the English translations for "chew" - and up popped "chew
                    > > >the cud", using the (LH root (go up, climb, ascend, etc). I've
                    > > >always thought of "ma'ale gera" (ruminant) as "regurgitating cud",
                    > > >with the (LH meaning something like "bringing it up from the 1st
                    > > >stomach back into the mouth". But now, with la'a:tu / ala:tu, I'm
                    > > >not so sure anymore. Maybe "gera" already implies the regurgitating,
                    > > >which leaves "ma'ale" as what? Chewing? Reality check anyone?
                    > >
                    > > [still talking to myself ...]
                    > >
                    > > The "pan Semitic" root of la'a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a
                    > > core meaning of thing related to "throat". With "swallow" in BH being
                    > > BL(, the immediate suspect for its origin is "B-LW(" ("in throat").
                    > > Is this something historical linguistics can accept as happening, a
                    > > preposition becoming part of the root? I'm trying to think of other
                    > > examples but drawing a blank.
                    > >
                    > > The basic root for "chew" in Akkadian is KSS (and I think GS.S. too
                    > > {RS.S. in BH?} but I can't find my note) with a core meaning of "take
                    > > apart", "divide". BH has it e.g. as MKSH (quota), but it doesn't seem
                    > > to be attested in BH in relation to eating (though in modern Hebrew
                    > > it's the verb used for describing chewing the nails). The common root
                    > > for "chew" became later L(S and I can't find it as a root in the
                    > > older Semitic languages in my ref books (but they don't cover
                    > > everything). Where did this L(S come from?
                    > >
                    > > Ariel.
                    > >
                    > > [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]
                    > >
                    > > ---
                    > > Ariel L. Szczupak
                    > > AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                    > > POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                    > > Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                    > > ane.als@... <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>
                    > >



                    Ariel.

                    [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

                    ---
                    Ariel L. Szczupak
                    AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                    POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                    Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                    ane.als@...
                  • Allan Adler
                    I think that, in a recent thread, maybe the one mentioned in the subject line, someone mentioned in passing that his students have to memorize Labat s Manuel.
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 25 12:13 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I think that, in a recent thread, maybe the one mentioned in the subject
                      line, someone mentioned in passing that his students have to memorize
                      Labat's Manuel. I own Labat's book and wouldn't mind knowing how one
                      goes about memorizing it. To me, it looks overwhelming.
                      --
                      Ignorantly,
                      Allan Adler <ara@...>
                      * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
                      * comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.