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SV: [ANE-2] Re: JSTORation (was: Re: More OI books online)

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  • Niels Peter Lemche
    Hay Chris, Full signature! Please. However, your point about prints is correct, and if we take the discussion a little further, at least in my part of the
    Message 1 of 28 , May 1, 2007
      Hay Chris,

      Full signature! Please.

      However, your point about prints is correct, and if we take the discussion a little further, at least in my part of the world it is a problem to E-learning that electronic files are so expensive that it impossible to use such material when you are having a course. So we continue putting together compendia in paper format, which is affordable but rather stupid when everything else is electronic. And to ask people to read only things copyrighted by myself is even more stupid.

      I would greatly appreciate comments from other quarters.

      Niels Peter Lemche

      -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
      Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Chris Bennett
      Sendt: 1. maj 2007 17:17
      Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Emne: [ANE-2] Re: JSTORation (was: Re: More OI books online)

      Posted by: "Ariel L. Szczupak" ane.als@...
      Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:49 am (PST)
      At 12:38 AM 4/30/2007, Brian Yare wrote:

      >Ariel wrote:
      ><< The commercial publishers react to the lost revenues with ridiculous,
      >outrageous prices for non-subscription (electronic) reprints. >>
      >
      >While I accepted much of your post, this sentence struck hard.

      It shouldn't have - you, as a publisher, are as far from those I was
      talking about as can be :) I was talking reprints of recent articles
      from journals.

      ******

      I completely agree with Ariel. The competition for electronic reprints is photocopy machines. The per page cost of buying an online reprint is typically 10 times, and can be up to 100 times, the cost of photocopying the same article. Its extortion.

      A journal that shall remain nameless makes older articles available for free and more recent articles purchaseable online. When this policy was instituted it was advertised that the purchase window would be for three years, rolling annually. At the end of the first year the window didn't roll, instead it became a four year window. I asked one of the editors about it, he told me that the window didn't roll because no-one had actually bought any of the more recent articles.

      I wonder why.

      Chris





      [
    • Mitch Allen
      I forwarded the discussion of JSTOR s policies to a former colleague of mine who now works for JSTOR. If you have any concerns, kudos, or recommendations for
      Message 2 of 28 , May 1, 2007
        I forwarded the discussion of JSTOR's policies to a former colleague of
        mine who now works for JSTOR. If you have any concerns, kudos, or
        recommendations for publications that should be made available through
        them, she welcomes hearing from you: Anne Ray <anne.ray@...>.

        Please respond directly to her, not via the reply key, as she is not a
        member of this list.

        mitch allen

        Mitch Allen
        Publisher
        Left Coast Press, Inc.
        1630 N. Main Street, #400
        Walnut Creek, California 94596
        925 935-3380 phone and fax
        mitch@...
        www.LCoastPress.com
      • Ariel L. Szczupak
        ... Actual paper? Why not as page images on a CD? Should be at least as affordable and probably more convenient for the students. Or as image archives for
        Message 3 of 28 , May 1, 2007
          At 07:09 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
          >[...] So we continue putting together compendia in paper format,
          >which is affordable but rather stupid when everything else is electronic.

          Actual paper? Why not as page images on a CD? Should be at least as
          affordable and probably more convenient for the students. Or as image
          archives for students on university servers. Copyright issues
          shouldn't be any different than a paper compendium of xeroxed texts.




          Ariel.

          [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

          ---
          Ariel L. Szczupak
          AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
          POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
          Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
          ane.als@...
        • Ariel L. Szczupak
          ... And are compendia still necessary when a 3M pixel digital camera will produce pictures of pages where even tiny footnotes are perfectly readable? Ariel.
          Message 4 of 28 , May 1, 2007
            At 08:39 PM 5/1/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
            >At 07:09 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
            >>[...] So we continue putting together compendia in paper format,
            >>which is affordable but rather stupid when everything else is electronic.
            >
            >Actual paper? Why not as page images on a CD? Should be at least as
            >affordable and probably more convenient for the students. Or as
            >image archives for students on university servers. Copyright issues
            >shouldn't be any different than a paper compendium of xeroxed texts.

            And are compendia still necessary when a 3M pixel digital camera will
            produce pictures of pages where even tiny footnotes are perfectly readable?



            Ariel.

            [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

            ---
            Ariel L. Szczupak
            AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
            POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
            Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
            ane.als@...
          • Niels Peter Lemche
            Well, I am afraid it is. We have made investigations, and the result was: it s the same. Could be a local arrangement, but it is an official system, state
            Message 5 of 28 , May 1, 2007
              Well, I am afraid it is. We have made investigations, and the result was: it's the same. Could be a local arrangement, but it is an official system, state sponsored. The moment the material is electronically readable, the mouse trap works.

              Niels Peter Lemche



              -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
              Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ariel L. Szczupak
              Sendt: 1. maj 2007 19:39
              Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] Re: JSTORation (was: Re: More OI books online)

              At 07:09 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
              >[...] So we continue putting together compendia in paper format,
              >which is affordable but rather stupid when everything else is electronic.

              Actual paper? Why not as page images on a CD? Should be at least as
              affordable and probably more convenient for the students. Or as image
              archives for students on university servers. Copyright issues
              shouldn't be any different than a paper compendium of xeroxed texts.




              Ariel.

              [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

              ---
              Ariel L. Szczupak
              AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
              POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
              Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
              ane.als@...




              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Niels Peter Lemche
              AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries. Being a state sponsored
              Message 6 of 28 , May 1, 2007
                AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries. Being a state sponsored university, we have to keep to the rules.

                Niels Peter Lemche

                -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ariel L. Szczupak
                Sendt: 1. maj 2007 19:56
                Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] Re: JSTORation (was: Re: More OI books online)

                At 08:39 PM 5/1/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                >At 07:09 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
                >>[...] So we continue putting together compendia in paper format,
                >>which is affordable but rather stupid when everything else is electronic.
                >
                >Actual paper? Why not as page images on a CD? Should be at least as
                >affordable and probably more convenient for the students. Or as
                >image archives for students on university servers. Copyright issues
                >shouldn't be any different than a paper compendium of xeroxed texts.

                And are compendia still necessary when a 3M pixel digital camera will
                produce pictures of pages where even tiny footnotes are perfectly readable?



                Ariel.

                [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

                ---
                Ariel L. Szczupak
                AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                ane.als@...




                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Cynthia Edenburg
                I work full-time at a state sponsered distance learning institution which has a very limited hard-copy library. Our students are spread across the country, and
                Message 7 of 28 , May 1, 2007
                  I work full-time at a state sponsered distance learning institution
                  which has a very limited hard-copy library. Our students are spread
                  across the country, and some study from abroad. Many of the students
                  never visit our physical campus (particularly since we relocated to a
                  site not easily accessable by public transportation). For this reason,
                  our library has invested in electronic collections such as JSTOR and
                  ATLAS as well as Oxford e-books, etc, all of which are accessable to
                  students and staff.
                  All of our published study material includes selected readings from
                  secondary literature, and a good portion of the course development
                  budget goes to purchasing reproduction rights for copyrighted material.
                  Concern over copyright issues are so great that we have been given
                  strict instructions not to upload e-copies of articles or images to any
                  part of the university web site to which there is free access.
                  Cynthia Edenburg
                  The Open University of Israel

                  --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Niels Peter Lemche" <npl@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same
                  result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries.
                  Being a state sponsored university, we have to keep to the rules.
                  >
                  > Niels Peter Lemche
                  >
                • Ariel L. Szczupak
                  ... [still talking to myself ...] The pan Semitic root of la a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a core meaning of thing related to throat . With swallow
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 1, 2007
                    At 07:53 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                    >At 02:26 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                    >>To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                    >>From: "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@...>
                    >>Subject: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?
                    >
                    >[...]
                    >
                    >>La'a:tu [CAD-L, pp.6-7] is given as "to swallow" (variant of
                    >>"ala:tu"). In BH we have Lamed-Ayin-Tet [Strong 3938] which is more
                    >>"to gorge" than to swallow (regular swallowing being
                    >>Bet-Lamed-Ayin), and we have in later Hebrew (Mishna?)
                    >>Lamed-Ayin-Samech for "to chew".
                    >
                    >Since L(S is not BH, and I didn't recall chewing in the bible, I
                    >searched the English translations for "chew" - and up popped "chew
                    >the cud", using the (LH root (go up, climb, ascend, etc). I've
                    >always thought of "ma'ale gera" (ruminant) as "regurgitating cud",
                    >with the (LH meaning something like "bringing it up from the 1st
                    >stomach back into the mouth". But now, with la'a:tu / ala:tu, I'm
                    >not so sure anymore. Maybe "gera" already implies the regurgitating,
                    >which leaves "ma'ale" as what? Chewing? Reality check anyone?

                    [still talking to myself ...]

                    The "pan Semitic" root of la'a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a
                    core meaning of thing related to "throat". With "swallow" in BH being
                    BL(, the immediate suspect for its origin is "B-LW(" ("in throat").
                    Is this something historical linguistics can accept as happening, a
                    preposition becoming part of the root? I'm trying to think of other
                    examples but drawing a blank.

                    The basic root for "chew" in Akkadian is KSS (and I think GS.S. too
                    {RS.S. in BH?} but I can't find my note) with a core meaning of "take
                    apart", "divide". BH has it e.g. as MKSH (quota), but it doesn't seem
                    to be attested in BH in relation to eating (though in modern Hebrew
                    it's the verb used for describing chewing the nails). The common root
                    for "chew" became later L(S and I can't find it as a root in the
                    older Semitic languages in my ref books (but they don't cover
                    everything). Where did this L(S come from?



                    Ariel.

                    [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

                    ---
                    Ariel L. Szczupak
                    AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                    POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                    Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                    ane.als@...
                  • Tomáš Mar(ík
                    Dear Ariel, did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, Münster 2000 [= AOAT
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 1, 2007
                      Dear Ariel,

                      did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic
                      Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, M�nster
                      2000 [= AOAT 278/1]) where it is listed as No. 176?

                      Tomas Marik
                      tomas.marik@...

                      Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:

                      > At 07:53 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                      > >At 02:26 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                      > >>To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >>From: "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@...
                      > <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>>
                      > >>Subject: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?
                      > >
                      > >[...]
                      > >
                      > >>La'a:tu [CAD-L, pp.6-7] is given as "to swallow" (variant of
                      > >>"ala:tu"). In BH we have Lamed-Ayin-Tet [Strong 3938] which is more
                      > >>"to gorge" than to swallow (regular swallowing being
                      > >>Bet-Lamed-Ayin), and we have in later Hebrew (Mishna?)
                      > >>Lamed-Ayin-Samech for "to chew".
                      > >
                      > >Since L(S is not BH, and I didn't recall chewing in the bible, I
                      > >searched the English translations for "chew" - and up popped "chew
                      > >the cud", using the (LH root (go up, climb, ascend, etc). I've
                      > >always thought of "ma'ale gera" (ruminant) as "regurgitating cud",
                      > >with the (LH meaning something like "bringing it up from the 1st
                      > >stomach back into the mouth". But now, with la'a:tu / ala:tu, I'm
                      > >not so sure anymore. Maybe "gera" already implies the regurgitating,
                      > >which leaves "ma'ale" as what? Chewing? Reality check anyone?
                      >
                      > [still talking to myself ...]
                      >
                      > The "pan Semitic" root of la'a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a
                      > core meaning of thing related to "throat". With "swallow" in BH being
                      > BL(, the immediate suspect for its origin is "B-LW(" ("in throat").
                      > Is this something historical linguistics can accept as happening, a
                      > preposition becoming part of the root? I'm trying to think of other
                      > examples but drawing a blank.
                      >
                      > The basic root for "chew" in Akkadian is KSS (and I think GS.S. too
                      > {RS.S. in BH?} but I can't find my note) with a core meaning of "take
                      > apart", "divide". BH has it e.g. as MKSH (quota), but it doesn't seem
                      > to be attested in BH in relation to eating (though in modern Hebrew
                      > it's the verb used for describing chewing the nails). The common root
                      > for "chew" became later L(S and I can't find it as a root in the
                      > older Semitic languages in my ref books (but they don't cover
                      > everything). Where did this L(S come from?
                      >
                      > Ariel.
                      >
                      > [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]
                      >
                      > ---
                      > Ariel L. Szczupak
                      > AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                      > POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                      > Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                      > ane.als@... <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ariel L. Szczupak
                      ... Just to be clear - I wasn t suggesting breaking or bending the rules, just suggesting electronic equivalents. I.e access to electronic compendia on
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 1, 2007
                        At 09:03 PM 5/1/2007, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:

                        >AS I said, any electronic way of copying a page will lead to same
                        >result. Would like to know what people are doing in other countries.
                        >Being a state sponsored university, we have to keep to the rules.

                        Just to be clear - I wasn't suggesting breaking or bending the rules,
                        just suggesting electronic equivalents. I.e access to electronic
                        compendia on university servers would be dependent on being enrolled
                        in the relevant courses, etc. Something's wrong with the rules if
                        universities of all places have to use outdated technologies.

                        But I do understand that rules can be sometimes absurd - I'm facing
                        such a situation myself just now :(

                        I use dtSearch, a desktop search program that indexes files (like the
                        Google & Copernic desktop search programs, but commercial and more
                        powerful). Three days ago I noticed that it wasn't finding something
                        I expected it to find in CAD-TET. Since the OI PDFs are "secured" I
                        thought it might be a problem. I searched for the same term in Google
                        and Google found it - i.e. the Google web "spider" was able to index that PDF.

                        I contacted dtSearch and was thrown back to the 20th century, which
                        in terms of technology is a long time ago.

                        "Secured" PDFs (those you can't copy to the clipboard from) are
                        encrypted, but that shouldn't have been a problem as PDF reading
                        programs can decrypt them. They can be encrypted using 40-bit keys or
                        128-bit keys. Back in the 20th century the US had strict rules
                        against the export of 128-bit encryption technology and many programs
                        came in two versions - US-domestic and export. These rules were
                        relaxed around 1999 or 2000 (the last version of Internet Explorer
                        for which there were separate domestic and export versions was IE 3.0).

                        Anyone who is using today the Internet Explorer or FireFox web
                        browsers is using 128-bit encryption technology to access secure web
                        pages. Anyone buying Acrobat Professional from Adobe to create PDFs
                        gets 128-bit encryption technology. That's anyone anywhere in the
                        world - anyone who can download these programs. And anyone in the
                        world can get the source code for 128-bit technology, not just the
                        technology itself, from open source projects like Mozilla and OpenOffice.

                        But dtSearch can't get a license from the US Bureau of Export
                        Administration to include 128-bit encryption technology in its
                        program, only 40-bit encryption. Why? Ask them. At the same time
                        there are at least 3 programs that I can buy, from the US, that use
                        128-bit encryption technology to strip the encryption from the PDFs
                        altogether. And why is that? Again, ask them :(

                        I don't want to make the OI PDFs un"secure", just to make finding
                        things in them easier. I'll use the PDFs "as is", following the
                        rules, not only without complaining but happy that I can access these
                        CADs on my computer instead of at the library. But the situation is absurd.

                        [It would be nice though if the OI, when creating these PDFs would
                        use 40-bit encryption instead of 128-bit]



                        Ariel.

                        [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

                        ---
                        Ariel L. Szczupak
                        AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                        POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                        Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                        ane.als@...
                      • Ariel L. Szczupak
                        ... No - because I don t have it. In my next library field day . Thanks for the ref. ... It being which of the roots I mentioned? ... Ariel. [100% bona fide
                        Message 11 of 28 , May 1, 2007
                          At 11:03 PM 5/1/2007, ík <tomas.marik@...> wrote:
                          >Dear Ariel,
                          >
                          >did you take a look into the SED (Militarev - Kogan, Semitic
                          >Etymological Dictionary. Vol. I. Anatomy of Man and Animals, Münster
                          >2000 [= AOAT 278/1])

                          No - because I don't have it. In my next library "field day". Thanks
                          for the ref.

                          >where it is listed as No. 176?

                          "It" being which of the roots I mentioned?


                          >Tomas Marik
                          >tomas.marik@...
                          >
                          >Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                          >
                          > > At 07:53 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                          > > >At 02:26 PM 4/28/2007, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
                          > > >>To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > >>From: "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@...
                          > > <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>>
                          > > >>Subject: Ak. La'a:tu - swallow? gorge? chew?
                          > > >
                          > > >[...]
                          > > >
                          > > >>La'a:tu [CAD-L, pp.6-7] is given as "to swallow" (variant of
                          > > >>"ala:tu"). In BH we have Lamed-Ayin-Tet [Strong 3938] which is more
                          > > >>"to gorge" than to swallow (regular swallowing being
                          > > >>Bet-Lamed-Ayin), and we have in later Hebrew (Mishna?)
                          > > >>Lamed-Ayin-Samech for "to chew".
                          > > >
                          > > >Since L(S is not BH, and I didn't recall chewing in the bible, I
                          > > >searched the English translations for "chew" - and up popped "chew
                          > > >the cud", using the (LH root (go up, climb, ascend, etc). I've
                          > > >always thought of "ma'ale gera" (ruminant) as "regurgitating cud",
                          > > >with the (LH meaning something like "bringing it up from the 1st
                          > > >stomach back into the mouth". But now, with la'a:tu / ala:tu, I'm
                          > > >not so sure anymore. Maybe "gera" already implies the regurgitating,
                          > > >which leaves "ma'ale" as what? Chewing? Reality check anyone?
                          > >
                          > > [still talking to myself ...]
                          > >
                          > > The "pan Semitic" root of la'a:tu / ala:tu seems to be LW( with a
                          > > core meaning of thing related to "throat". With "swallow" in BH being
                          > > BL(, the immediate suspect for its origin is "B-LW(" ("in throat").
                          > > Is this something historical linguistics can accept as happening, a
                          > > preposition becoming part of the root? I'm trying to think of other
                          > > examples but drawing a blank.
                          > >
                          > > The basic root for "chew" in Akkadian is KSS (and I think GS.S. too
                          > > {RS.S. in BH?} but I can't find my note) with a core meaning of "take
                          > > apart", "divide". BH has it e.g. as MKSH (quota), but it doesn't seem
                          > > to be attested in BH in relation to eating (though in modern Hebrew
                          > > it's the verb used for describing chewing the nails). The common root
                          > > for "chew" became later L(S and I can't find it as a root in the
                          > > older Semitic languages in my ref books (but they don't cover
                          > > everything). Where did this L(S come from?
                          > >
                          > > Ariel.
                          > >
                          > > [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]
                          > >
                          > > ---
                          > > Ariel L. Szczupak
                          > > AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                          > > POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                          > > Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                          > > ane.als@... <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com>
                          > >



                          Ariel.

                          [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

                          ---
                          Ariel L. Szczupak
                          AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                          POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                          Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                          ane.als@...
                        • Allan Adler
                          I think that, in a recent thread, maybe the one mentioned in the subject line, someone mentioned in passing that his students have to memorize Labat s Manuel.
                          Message 12 of 28 , May 25, 2007
                            I think that, in a recent thread, maybe the one mentioned in the subject
                            line, someone mentioned in passing that his students have to memorize
                            Labat's Manuel. I own Labat's book and wouldn't mind knowing how one
                            goes about memorizing it. To me, it looks overwhelming.
                            --
                            Ignorantly,
                            Allan Adler <ara@...>
                            * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
                            * comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.