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Talpiot Tomb reviews- an explanation

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  • Joe Zias
    The Kansas City Star reported today that the Talpiot film made by Cameron et al was on the road to oblivion as Discovery was clearly uncomfortable about
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 26, 2007
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      The Kansas City Star reported today that the Talpiot film made by Cameron et al was on the road to oblivion as " Discovery was clearly uncomfortable about “The Lost Tomb,” choosing to promote it only in the week leading up to the broadcast. After Discovery yanked all the repeats, Cameron decided to hurry up the DVD ".

      Looks like a move of desperation by Cameron and the BAR Crowd trying to recoup their losses, not to mention their creditability now that Discovery realized that they had been conned from the beginning and has refused to re-broadcast it. I think that it's a bit too late as the only thing 'lost' has been the creditability and integrity of those still believing in it.

      Joe Zias




      Joe Zias www.joezias.com
      Anthropology/Paleopathology

      Science and Antiquity Group @ The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
      Jerusalem, Israel



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dierk van den Berg
      What is with the credibility of the mentioned DNA analysis, Joe? I recall the negative results in the analyses of bones probes (not crumbs from the bottom of
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 26, 2007
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        What is with the credibility of the mentioned DNA analysis, Joe?
        I recall the negative results in the analyses of bones probes (not crumbs
        from the bottom of questionable ossuaries as in the case of Magdalenekin
        the Master vs Eisenman's JBJ ) from the Collectio Kurth around 2001 by
        Roehrer-Ertl.; has this perhaps something to do with the parameters looked
        for or the salt factor of all things from the Dead Sea, or perhaps with
        outranging and still secret US technology?

        Dierk van den Berg
        RU Nijmegen, NL
        -------------------------------------------
        kullu nafsin dsa 'iqatu l-mawt (surah 3.185)
        *all living is pervaded by the taste of death*
        [Momentum of Shiite al-Mahdi Messianism]




        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
        To: "ANE II list" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>;
        <biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:24 AM
        Subject: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb reviews- an explanation


        The Kansas City Star reported today that the Talpiot film made by Cameron
        et al was on the road to oblivion as " Discovery was clearly uncomfortable
        about "The Lost Tomb," choosing to promote it only in the week leading up to
        the broadcast. After Discovery yanked all the repeats, Cameron decided to
        hurry up the DVD ".

        Looks like a move of desperation by Cameron and the BAR Crowd trying to
        recoup their losses, not to mention their creditability now that Discovery
        realized that they had been conned from the beginning and has refused to
        re-broadcast it. I think that it's a bit too late as the only thing 'lost'
        has been the creditability and integrity of those still believing in it.

        Joe Zias




        Joe Zias www.joezias.com
        Anthropology/Paleopathology

        Science and Antiquity Group @ The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
        Jerusalem, Israel



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Garold Mills
        Joe, How much was BAR involved in the production and sponsorship of the film? Garold Mills ... From: Joe Zias To: ANE II
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 27, 2007
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          Joe,
          How much was BAR involved in the production and sponsorship of the film?

          Garold Mills
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Joe Zias<mailto:joezias@...>
          To: ANE II list<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com> ; biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:24 PM
          Subject: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb reviews- an explanation


          The Kansas City Star reported today that the Talpiot film made by Cameron et al was on the road to oblivion as " Discovery was clearly uncomfortable about "The Lost Tomb," choosing to promote it only in the week leading up to the broadcast. After Discovery yanked all the repeats, Cameron decided to hurry up the DVD ".

          Looks like a move of desperation by Cameron and the BAR Crowd trying to recoup their losses, not to mention their creditability now that Discovery realized that they had been conned from the beginning and has refused to re-broadcast it. I think that it's a bit too late as the only thing 'lost' has been the creditability and integrity of those still believing in it.

          Joe Zias



          Joe Zias www.joezias.com
          Anthropology/Paleopathology

          Science and Antiquity Group @ The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
          Jerusalem, Israel

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joe Zias
          Many of those involved with the film have been heavily involved with the James Ossuary controversy, defending it, in fact, Simcha testified in an IL court on
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 27, 2007
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            Many of those involved with the film have been heavily involved with the James Ossuary controversy, defending it, in fact, Simcha testified in an IL court on behalf of the defense. Some of those on the panel of experts (3) are strong supporters of BAR not to mention all those BAR seminars which they are invovled in. What I find very distasteful is that some of the experts on the Discovery panel of 'experts' for the film not only are not archaeologists but have never excavated a tomb in their life. Their desire to be on the 'screen' overides their obligation to the profession. Others work 'behind' the scenes for BAR on a variety of projects.

            Joe Zias

            Garold Mills <gmills4248@...> wrote:
            Joe,
            How much was BAR involved in the production and sponsorship of the film?

            Garold Mills
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Joe Zias<mailto:joezias@...>
            To: ANE II list<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com> ; biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:24 PM
            Subject: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb reviews- an explanation

            The Kansas City Star reported today that the Talpiot film made by Cameron et al was on the road to oblivion as " Discovery was clearly uncomfortable about "The Lost Tomb," choosing to promote it only in the week leading up to the broadcast. After Discovery yanked all the repeats, Cameron decided to hurry up the DVD ".

            Looks like a move of desperation by Cameron and the BAR Crowd trying to recoup their losses, not to mention their creditability now that Discovery realized that they had been conned from the beginning and has refused to re-broadcast it. I think that it's a bit too late as the only thing 'lost' has been the creditability and integrity of those still believing in it.

            Joe Zias

            Joe Zias www.joezias.com
            Anthropology/Paleopathology

            Science and Antiquity Group @ The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
            Jerusalem, Israel

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joe Zias
            While no doub t exists in my mind that they extracted some DNA out of the material the question is whose, mine, Rahmani, Simcha, Gibson, Tabor, Kloner, Hava,
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 28, 2007
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              While no doub't exists in my mind that they extracted some DNA out of the material the question is whose, mine, Rahmani, Simcha, Gibson, Tabor, Kloner, Hava, Cameron, Golan, the list of those handling the ossuary is long, not to mention the gloveless ind. who was seen in the film with the tooth.
              As for DNA and Qumran, no results as of yet have been acheived with the ancient human skeletal remains.
              Joe Zias

              Dierk van den Berg <haGalil@...> wrote:
              What is with the credibility of the mentioned DNA analysis, Joe?
              I recall the negative results in the analyses of bones probes (not crumbs
              from the bottom of questionable ossuaries as in the case of Magdalenekin
              the Master vs Eisenman's JBJ ) from the Collectio Kurth around 2001 by
              Roehrer-Ertl.; has this perhaps something to do with the parameters looked
              for or the salt factor of all things from the Dead Sea, or perhaps with
              outranging and still secret US technology?

              Dierk van den Berg
              RU Nijmegen, NL
              -------------------------------------------
              kullu nafsin dsa 'iqatu l-mawt (surah 3.185)
              *all living is pervaded by the taste of death*
              [Momentum of Shiite al-Mahdi Messianism]

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
              To: "ANE II list" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>;
              <biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:24 AM
              Subject: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb reviews- an explanation

              The Kansas City Star reported today that the Talpiot film made by Cameron
              et al was on the road to oblivion as " Discovery was clearly uncomfortable
              about "The Lost Tomb," choosing to promote it only in the week leading up to
              the broadcast. After Discovery yanked all the repeats, Cameron decided to
              hurry up the DVD ".

              Looks like a move of desperation by Cameron and the BAR Crowd trying to
              recoup their losses, not to mention their creditability now that Discovery
              realized that they had been conned from the beginning and has refused to
              re-broadcast it. I think that it's a bit too late as the only thing 'lost'
              has been the creditability and integrity of those still believing in it.

              Joe Zias

              Joe Zias www.joezias.com
              Anthropology/Paleopathology

              Science and Antiquity Group @ The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
              Jerusalem, Israel

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              Yahoo! Groups Links






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Garold Mills
              Hello, I am sure that you are not saying anyone involved with BAR is somehow not considered credible? BAR seminars have very good subjects and dispense a lot
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 29, 2007
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                Hello,
                I am sure that you are not saying anyone involved with BAR is somehow not considered credible? BAR seminars have very good subjects and dispense a lot of good information from very credible archaeologists and historians. Many are part of SBL, AAR, and the Oriental Societies. I can not assume what it sounds like?

                Garold Mills
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Joe Zias<mailto:joezias@...>
                To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:08 PM
                Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb reviews- an explanation


                Many of those involved with the film have been heavily involved with the James Ossuary controversy, defending it, in fact, Simcha testified in an IL court on behalf of the defense. Some of those on the panel of experts (3) are strong supporters of BAR not to mention all those BAR seminars which they are invovled in. What I find very distasteful is that some of the experts on the Discovery panel of 'experts' for the film not only are not archaeologists but have never excavated a tomb in their life. Their desire to be on the 'screen' overides their obligation to the profession. Others work 'behind' the scenes for BAR on a variety of projects.

                Joe Zias

                Garold Mills <gmills4248@...<mailto:gmills4248%40msn.com>> wrote:
                Joe,
                How much was BAR involved in the production and sponsorship of the film?

                Garold Mills
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Joe Zias<mailto:joezias@...<mailto:joezias%40yahoo.com>>
                To: ANE II list<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>> ; biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biblical-studies%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biblical-studies%40yahoogroups.com>>
                Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:24 PM
                Subject: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb reviews- an explanation

                The Kansas City Star reported today that the Talpiot film made by Cameron et al was on the road to oblivion as " Discovery was clearly uncomfortable about "The Lost Tomb," choosing to promote it only in the week leading up to the broadcast. After Discovery yanked all the repeats, Cameron decided to hurry up the DVD ".

                Looks like a move of desperation by Cameron and the BAR Crowd trying to recoup their losses, not to mention their creditability now that Discovery realized that they had been conned from the beginning and has refused to re-broadcast it. I think that it's a bit too late as the only thing 'lost' has been the creditability and integrity of those still believing in it.

                Joe Zias

                Joe Zias www.joezias.com
                Anthropology/Paleopathology

                Science and Antiquity Group @ The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
                Jerusalem, Israel

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joe Zias
                The price of these BAR seminars is extremely expensive and not for the avg. reader of BAR. I once computed the price per lecture, which ran ca. 33 US per
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 30, 2007
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                  The price of these BAR seminars is extremely expensive and not for the avg. reader of BAR. I once computed the price per lecture, which ran ca. 33 US per lecture, not counting food, lodging and transportation which is above and beyond any arch. lecture given in the US, if it charges at all. As there are several lectures per day these prices are hard to justify, unless these are just for the rich and privileged. If BAR was kicking these enormous profits back to the profession upon which it was founded, then I would not complain so much however when the highly profitable, 'non-profit' rtns sometimes but one tenth of one percent of gross revenue to the profession upon which is was founded, then something is wrong. Furthermore, one has to look at the number of people attending these seminars versus free lectures or seminars which charge a nominal fee and one clearly sees that if one wishes get this information out to the public, BAR is not the way to go. In fact, a few yrs back I did a lecture tour of the south and attracted on a nightly basis, greater crowds in churches than were there on Sundays and BAR seminars combined. There is a tremendous interest in the subject of Biblical Arch which BAR has exploited much in the way of all those spin offs on the Da Vinci Code which are done purely to make the 'fast buck'. If one is interested in Biblical Archaeology, I suggest the annual ASOR/SBL meetings which are much, much cheaper and the variety and depth is greater, not to mention that ASOR's commitment to the profession is a true non-profit, rather than BAR/BAS which is more in the category of non-prophet.
                  Joe Zias

                  Garold Mills <gmills4248@...> wrote:
                  Hello,
                  I am sure that you are not saying anyone involved with BAR is somehow not considered credible? BAR seminars have very good subjects and dispense a lot of good information from very credible archaeologists and historians. Many are part of SBL, AAR, and the Oriental Societies. I can not assume what it sounds like?

                  Garold Mills
                • Garold Mills
                  Hello Joe, I agree with your information. I organized 4 of the BAR seminars. The speakers were underpaid, compared with the fees charged. However I would say
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 30, 2007
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                    Hello Joe,
                    I agree with your information. I organized 4 of the BAR seminars. The speakers were underpaid, compared with the fees charged. However I would say that we had a great turn out. For me having Jodi Magness, Bill Dever, to name a few was worth the effort. We mainly stopped because of the fees and the overall cost. Many of the "named" people charge a great deal. In some case far more than they were paid by BAR and a stipend I arraigned to lessen the fee to attendees. The public needs to be informed and they are very interested. However popular magazines are sometimes their only source. In the US it is hard to get a Joe Zias to come and speak for a couple of lectures for $500.00. Locals like myself are prophets of their own city and are not always seen as important. So it goes back to popular media. Web sites are helpful but not always helpful to much of the public. Perhaps we all can put together a magazine, TV movies, web blogs, etc. in our spare time to help out. I am being facetious! I agree with you Joe. Lets do something about it.

                    Garold Mills
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Joe Zias<mailto:joezias@...>
                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                    Cc: biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com<mailto:biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:36 AM
                    Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb and BAR reviews- an explanation


                    The price of these BAR seminars is extremely expensive and not for the avg. reader of BAR. I once computed the price per lecture, which ran ca. 33 US per lecture, not counting food, lodging and transportation which is above and beyond any arch. lecture given in the US, if it charges at all. As there are several lectures per day these prices are hard to justify, unless these are just for the rich and privileged. If BAR was kicking these enormous profits back to the profession upon which it was founded, then I would not complain so much however when the highly profitable, 'non-profit' rtns sometimes but one tenth of one percent of gross revenue to the profession upon which is was founded, then something is wrong. Furthermore, one has to look at the number of people attending these seminars versus free lectures or seminars which charge a nominal fee and one clearly sees that if one wishes get this information out to the public, BAR is not the way to go. In fact, a few yrs back I did a lecture tour of the south and attracted on a nightly basis, greater crowds in churches than were there on Sundays and BAR seminars combined. There is a tremendous interest in the subject of Biblical Arch which BAR has exploited much in the way of all those spin offs on the Da Vinci Code which are done purely to make the 'fast buck'. If one is interested in Biblical Archaeology, I suggest the annual ASOR/SBL meetings which are much, much cheaper and the variety and depth is greater, not to mention that ASOR's commitment to the profession is a true non-profit, rather than BAR/BAS which is more in the category of non-prophet.
                    Joe Zias

                    Garold Mills <gmills4248@...<mailto:gmills4248%40msn.com>> wrote:
                    Hello,
                    I am sure that you are not saying anyone involved with BAR is somehow not considered credible? BAR seminars have very good subjects and dispense a lot of good information from very credible archaeologists and historians. Many are part of SBL, AAR, and the Oriental Societies. I can not assume what it sounds like?

                    Garold Mills




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joe Zias
                    As you state, underpaying academics is par for the course for BAR speakers compared to the exorbitant fees charged and you are right that Bill Dever and Jodi
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 30, 2007
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                      As you state, underpaying academics is par for the course for BAR speakers compared to the exorbitant fees charged and you are right that Bill Dever and Jodi Magness are worth hearing. If you wish to become "enlightened" :-) go to Guidestar.com which has all the relevant info. on these so called non-profits. During the James Ossuary's 'real days' of BAR, gross revenues one year topped the 6 million dollars mark but 6,000 was given back to the academics and the profession. This is the 1/10Th of 1% that I speak about. Total exploitation of the term non-profit, whereas the percentage given back to the profession by ASOR make it truly a non-profit. This is par for the course. Some of the speakers do it for their own 'non-profits, others to sell books and others for their egos. What ties them all together is that all are underpaid, across the board for these very, very expensive lectures. If you wish to see where the money is going go to Guidestar and have a look at the salaries of some of those higher up the 'food chain' in terms of BAR/BAS salaries as advisers and then compare it to ASOR and to the pittance that BAR pays to these speakers. These wages for academics are truly insulting.
                      I have long maintained that there must be an alternative and have had some success as many colleagues refuse to publish in BAR, the alternative in my opinion is the journal put out by ASOR, unfort. it is by subscription only however it is of very high quality, without all the trashy advertising of vacuum cleaners etc that BAR runs and great layouts. If I lived in the US I could conceive that the BAR stranglehold on seminars could easily be broken vis some enterprising person with a Internet connection and some backing from a non-profit organization. I, along with others would back you in a minute.
                      There are however more and more people getting their info. off the web and there are wonderful blogs out there by Jim West and others whom I'm sure could be convinced to get the word out, they should be encouraged.

                      Joe Zias

                      Garold Mills <gmills4248@...> wrote:
                      Hello Joe,
                      I agree with your information. I organized 4 of the BAR seminars. The speakers were underpaid, compared with the fees charged. However I would say that we had a great turn out. For me having Jodi Magness, Bill Dever, to name a few was worth the effort. We mainly stopped because of the fees and the overall cost. Many of the "named" people charge a great deal. In some case far more than they were paid by BAR and a stipend I arraigned to lessen the fee to attendees. The public needs to be informed and they are very interested. However popular magazines are sometimes their only source. In the US it is hard to get a Joe Zias to come and speak for a couple of lectures for $500.00. Locals like myself are prophets of their own city and are not always seen as important. So it goes back to popular media. Web sites are helpful but not always helpful to much of the public. Perhaps we all can put together a magazine, TV movies, web blogs, etc. in our spare time to help out. I am being facetious! I agree with you Joe. Lets do something about it.

                      Garold Mills
                    • Gary Greenberg
                      At a lecture last night by Jodi Magness, we were advised that the Discovery Channel is doing a follow-up to the tomb story by interviewing scholars as to their
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 1 11:15 AM
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                        At a lecture last night by Jodi Magness, we were advised that the Discovery
                        Channel is doing a follow-up to the tomb story by interviewing scholars as
                        to their reaction. Magness was going to be interviewed today. I don't know
                        anything about the proposed air time.

                        Gary Greenberg
                        NYC

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
                        To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                        Cc: <biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:35 PM
                        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb and BAS/BAR non-prophets


                        > As you state, underpaying academics is par for the course for BAR speakers
                        > compared to the exorbitant fees charged and you are right that Bill Dever
                        > and Jodi Magness are worth hearing. If you wish to become "enlightened"
                        > :-) go to Guidestar.com which has all the relevant info. on these so
                        > called non-profits. During the James Ossuary's 'real days' of BAR, gross
                        > revenues one year topped the 6 million dollars mark but 6,000 was given
                        > back to the academics and the profession. This is the 1/10Th of 1% that I
                        > speak about. Total exploitation of the term non-profit, whereas the
                        > percentage given back to the profession by ASOR make it truly a
                        > non-profit. This is par for the course. Some of the speakers do it for
                        > their own 'non-profits, others to sell books and others for their egos.
                        > What ties them all together is that all are underpaid, across the board
                        > for these very, very expensive lectures. If you wish to see where the
                        > money is going go to Guidestar and have a look at the salaries of some
                        > I have long maintained that there must be an alternative and have had
                        > some success as many colleagues refuse to publish in BAR, the alternative
                        > in my opinion is the journal put out by ASOR, unfort. it is by
                        > subscription only however it is of very high quality, without all the
                        > trashy advertising of vacuum cleaners etc that BAR runs and great layouts.
                        > If I lived in the US I could conceive that the BAR stranglehold on
                        > seminars could easily be broken vis some enterprising person with a
                        > Internet connection and some backing from a non-profit organization. I,
                        > along with others would back you in a minute.
                        > There are however more and more people getting their info. off the web
                        > and there are wonderful blogs out there by Jim West and others whom I'm
                        > sure could be convinced to get the word out, they should be encouraged.
                        >
                        > Joe Zias
                        >
                        > Garold Mills <gmills4248@...> wrote:
                        > Hello Joe,
                        > I agree with your information. I organized 4 of the BAR seminars. The
                        > speakers were underpaid, compared with the fees charged. However I would
                        > say that we had a great turn out. For me having Jodi Magness, Bill Dever,
                        > to name a few was worth the effort. We mainly stopped because of the fees
                        > and the overall cost. Many of the "named" people charge a great deal. In
                        > some case far more than they were paid by BAR and a stipend I arraigned to
                        > lessen the fee to attendees. The public needs to be informed and they are
                        > very interested. However popular magazines are sometimes their only
                        > source. In the US it is hard to get a Joe Zias to come and speak for a
                        > couple of lectures for $500.00. Locals like myself are prophets of their
                        > own city and are not always seen as important. So it goes back to popular
                        > media. Web sites are helpful but not always helpful to much of the public.
                        > Perhaps we all can put together a magazine, TV movies, web blogs, etc. in
                        > our spare time to help out. I am being facetious!
                        >
                        > Garold Mills
                        >
                      • Joe Zias
                        I ve been contacted by a few producers and am not all that sure that Discovery in and of itself is doing this but rather some independents who saw an
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 1 5:27 PM
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                          I've been contacted by a few producers and am not all that sure that Discovery in and of itself is doing this but rather some independents who saw an opportunity and may be making the most of it. From the view over here in IL, the story is a dead one, at least I hope so as out of all those involved there appears only one who for various reasons is pushing it along with the James ossuary comes from the Talpiot tomb, which no one seriously believes.

                          Joe

                          Gary Greenberg <garygreenberg@...> wrote:
                          At a lecture last night by Jodi Magness, we were advised that the Discovery
                          Channel is doing a follow-up to the tomb story by interviewing scholars as
                          to their reaction. Magness was going to be interviewed today. I don't know
                          anything about the proposed air time.

                          Gary Greenberg
                          NYC

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@...>
                          To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                          Cc: <biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:35 PM
                          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb and BAS/BAR non-prophets

                          > As you state, underpaying academics is par for the course for BAR speakers
                          > compared to the exorbitant fees charged and you are right that Bill Dever
                          > and Jodi Magness are worth hearing. If you wish to become "enlightened"
                          > :-) go to Guidestar.com which has all the relevant info. on these so
                          > called non-profits. During the James Ossuary's 'real days' of BAR, gross
                          > revenues one year topped the 6 million dollars mark but 6,000 was given
                          > back to the academics and the profession. This is the 1/10Th of 1% that I
                          > speak about. Total exploitation of the term non-profit, whereas the
                          > percentage given back to the profession by ASOR make it truly a
                          > non-profit. This is par for the course. Some of the speakers do it for
                          > their own 'non-profits, others to sell books and others for their egos.
                          > What ties them all together is that all are underpaid, across the board
                          > for these very, very expensive lectures. If you wish to see where the
                          > money is going go to Guidestar and have a look at the salaries of some
                          > I have long maintained that there must be an alternative and have had
                          > some success as many colleagues refuse to publish in BAR, the alternative
                          > in my opinion is the journal put out by ASOR, unfort. it is by
                          > subscription only however it is of very high quality, without all the
                          > trashy advertising of vacuum cleaners etc that BAR runs and great layouts.
                          > If I lived in the US I could conceive that the BAR stranglehold on
                          > seminars could easily be broken vis some enterprising person with a
                          > Internet connection and some backing from a non-profit organization. I,
                          > along with others would back you in a minute.
                          > There are however more and more people getting their info. off the web
                          > and there are wonderful blogs out there by Jim West and others whom I'm
                          > sure could be convinced to get the word out, they should be encouraged.
                          >
                          > Joe Zias
                          >
                          > Garold Mills <gmills4248@...> wrote:
                          > Hello Joe,
                          > I agree with your information. I organized 4 of the BAR seminars. The
                          > speakers were underpaid, compared with the fees charged. However I would
                          > say that we had a great turn out. For me having Jodi Magness, Bill Dever,
                          > to name a few was worth the effort. We mainly stopped because of the fees
                          > and the overall cost. Many of the "named" people charge a great deal. In
                          > some case far more than they were paid by BAR and a stipend I arraigned to
                          > lessen the fee to attendees. The public needs to be informed and they are
                          > very interested. However popular magazines are sometimes their only
                          > source. In the US it is hard to get a Joe Zias to come and speak for a
                          > couple of lectures for $500.00. Locals like myself are prophets of their
                          > own city and are not always seen as important. So it goes back to popular
                          > media. Web sites are helpful but not always helpful to much of the public.
                          > Perhaps we all can put together a magazine, TV movies, web blogs, etc. in
                          > our spare time to help out. I am being facetious!
                          >
                          > Garold Mills
                          >






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ellen Herscher
                          I would just like to bring to the attention of group members that the Archaeological Institute of America sponsors FREE lectures in all of its ca. 100 local
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 2 6:53 AM
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                            I would just like to bring to the attention of group
                            members that the Archaeological Institute of America
                            sponsors FREE lectures in all of its ca. 100 local
                            societies throughout North America, and it also
                            publishes the excellent magazine "Archaeology," which
                            is available both by subscription and on newsstands.
                            While not devoted solely to "biblical archaeology"
                            like BAR and NEA, this topic is a major component of
                            the presentations. The AIA welcomes scholars in the
                            field interested in lecturing through their program.

                            For local societies and their lecture programs:
                            http://www.archaeological.org/webinfo.php?page=10135

                            Ellen Herscher
                          • Garold Mills
                            Hi, We have lectures here at OU. However they are not free. The local group has to fund the lecturer. Several Thousand dollars for travel etc. But the
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 2 10:03 AM
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                              Hi,
                              We have lectures here at OU. However they are not free. The local group has to fund the lecturer. Several Thousand dollars for travel etc. But the lecturers are great. Our local chapter has a goober for a president though.

                              Garold Mills
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Ellen Herscher<mailto:herschere@...>
                              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:53 AM
                              Subject: [ANE-2] Re: Talpiot Tomb and BAS/BAR non-prophets


                              I would just like to bring to the attention of group
                              members that the Archaeological Institute of America
                              sponsors FREE lectures in all of its ca. 100 local
                              societies throughout North America, and it also
                              publishes the excellent magazine "Archaeology," which
                              is available both by subscription and on newsstands.
                              While not devoted solely to "biblical archaeology"
                              like BAR and NEA, this topic is a major component of
                              the presentations. The AIA welcomes scholars in the
                              field interested in lecturing through their program.

                              For local societies and their lecture programs:
                              http://www.archaeological.org/webinfo.php?page=10135<http://www.archaeological.org/webinfo.php?page=10135>

                              Ellen Herscher




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • nljmail@wideopenwest.com
                              Just out of curiosity -- How does BAS/BAR (which I never thought was a non-profit, at least the magazine part) compare with National Geographic?� I know that
                              Message 14 of 14 , May 4 6:13 PM
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                                Just out of curiosity -- How does BAS/BAR (which I never thought was a non-profit, at least the magazine part) compare with National Geographic?��� I know that my Anthro teacher had a very low opinion of their grants...

                                Nancy Jones
                                Amateur Jack of all trades
                                Arlington Hts, IL

                                ---------- Original Message -----------
                                From: Joe Zias <joezias@...>
                                To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: biblical-studies@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:35:59 -0700 (PDT)
                                Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Talpiot Tomb and BAS/BAR non-prophets

                                > As you state, underpaying academics is par for the course for BAR speakers compared to the exorbitant fees charged and you are right that Bill Dever and Jodi Magness are worth hearing. If you wish to become "enlightened" :-) go to Guidestar.com which has all the relevant info. on these so called non-profits. During the James Ossuary's 'real days' of BAR, gross revenues one year topped the 6 million dollars mark but 6,000 was given back to the academics and the profession. This is the 1/10Th of 1% that I speak about. Total exploitation of the term non-profit, whereas the percentage given back to the profession by ASOR make it truly a non-profit. This is par for the course. Some of the speakers do it for their own 'non-profits, others to sell books and others for their egos. What ties them all together is that all are underpaid, across the board for these very, very expensive lectures. If you wish to see where the money is going go to Guidestar and have a look at the salarie!
                                s of some of those higher up the 'food chain' in terms of BAR/BAS salaries as advisers and then compare it to ASOR and to the pittance that BAR pays to these speakers. These wages for academics are truly insulting.
                                > I have long maintained that there must be an alternative and have had some success as many colleagues refuse to publish in BAR, the alternative in my opinion is the journal put out by ASOR, unfort. it is by subscription only however it is of very high quality, without all the trashy advertising of vacuum cleaners etc that BAR runs and great layouts. If I lived in the US I could conceive that the BAR stranglehold on seminars could easily be broken vis some enterprising person with a Internet connection and some backing from a non-profit organization. I, along with others would back you in a minute.
                                > There are however more and more people getting their info. off the web and there are wonderful blogs out there by Jim West and others whom I'm sure could be convinced to get the word out, they should be encouraged.
                                >
                                > Joe Zias
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