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question about Orientalism book

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  • Peter T. Daniels
    Not too long ago -- perhaps about six months ago -- one of the lists I subscribe to posted a review of a recent book surveying the Orientalism debate that
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 28, 2007
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      Not too long ago -- perhaps about six months ago -- one of the lists I subscribe to posted a review of a recent book surveying the Orientalism debate that offered a decidedly anti-Said position. Can anyone identify this book for me -- and point me to the review? It is not BMCR or RBL; it may have been TLS or possibly (though doubtfully) NYRB or something like that.

      It can't have been *Dangerous Knowledge*, by Robert Irwin, which is a fairly superficial catalog of the history of European study of Islam and Arabic, with some rather elementary mistakes in areas I know about (such as consistently using "Indo-Aryan" to mean "Indo-European," and calling the editing of texts "dull but necessary" -- several times), that addresses Said only in the closing chapter.

      I seem to recall that the book I'm looking for had different titles in the UK and the US.

      Thank you.
      --
      Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
    • sbudin@camden.rutgers.edu
      ... Is this the posting you remember?: From : ==================================================
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 28, 2007
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        Quoting "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...>:

        > Not too long ago -- perhaps about six months ago -- one of the lists I
        > subscribe to posted a review of a recent book surveying the Orientalism
        > debate that offered a decidedly anti-Said position. Can anyone identify this
        > book for me -- and point me to the review? It is not BMCR or RBL; it may have
        > been TLS or possibly (though doubtfully) NYRB or something like that.
        >
        > It can't have been *Dangerous Knowledge*, by Robert Irwin, which is a fairly
        > superficial catalog of the history of European study of Islam and Arabic,
        > with some rather elementary mistakes in areas I know about (such as
        > consistently using "Indo-Aryan" to mean "Indo-European," and calling the
        > editing of texts "dull but necessary" -- several times), that addresses Said
        > only in the closing chapter.
        >
        > I seem to recall that the book I'm looking for had different titles in the UK
        > and the US.


        Is this the posting you remember?:

        From <http://www.sheffieldphoenix.com/showbook.asp?bkid=45>:
        ==================================================

        Orientalism, Assyriology and the Bible
        Edited by Steven W. Holloway
        c. 600 pp. Hardback
        Series: Hebrew Bible Monographs, 10
        1-905048-37-8, 978-1-905048-37-3 hardback
        £30 / $55 / ¤45 (Scholar's Price)
        £60 / $110 / ¤90 (List Price)

        ?Orientalism? refers both to the academic study of the Orient and
        to Western scholarship that clings to stock images of the timeless
        East and oriental despotism. This landmark collection of essays,
        the first in its field, is written by seasoned art historians,
        Assyriologists and biblical specialists; it is organized under four
        rubrics:

        1. Intellectual and Disciplinary Histories identifies waymarks
        in the rise of Assyriology in America, shifting images of ancient
        Assyria in their cultural context, Smithsonian Institution exhibits
        of ?biblical antiquities? at the world?s fairs of 1893 and 1895,
        the rise of Egyptology in the nineteenth century, Mari scholarship
        and its impact on biblical studies, and the ancient Near Eastern
        text anthology as genre (Foster, Frahm, Holloway Reid, Younger).

        2. Visual Perspectives suggests itself as a corrective to the
        academic habit of conjuring a ?texted Orient?. Here are
        contributions that describe Assyrianizing engravings in the famous
        Dalziels? Bible Gallery, the reception of ancient Assyria in
        nineteenth-century England versus France, and artwork for
        twentieth-century American histories of Israel (Bohrer, Esposito,
        Long).

        3. Of Harems and Heroines explores gender issues in the context
        of the figure of Semiramis and the idea of the harem in biblical
        research and Assyriology (Asher-Greve, Solvang).

        4. Assyriology and the Bible offers essays that focus on
        specific figures (Josiah), texts (Genesis 28.10-22, the Uruk
        Prophecy), or periods (Persian period in biblical historiography)
        (Grabbe, Handy, Hurowitz, Scurlock).

        The volume includes a Bibliography of some 1000 items, an important
        resource.

        Steven Holloway is Indexer-Analyst, American Theological Library
        Association (ATLA), Chicago.

        Contents
        INTRODUCTION
        Holloway, Steven W. Orientalism, Assyriology and the Bible

        INTELLECTUAL AND DISCIPLINARY HISTORIES
        1. Foster, Benjamin R. The Beginnings of Assyriology in the United
        States
        2. Frahm, Eckart. Images of Assyria in Nineteenth- and
        Twentieth-Century Western Scholarship
        3. Holloway, Steven W. The Smithsonian Institution's Religious
        Ceremonial Objects and Biblical Antiquities Exhibits at the World's
        Columbian Exposition (Chicago, 1893) and the Cotton States and
        International Exposition (Atlanta, 1895)
        4. Reid, Donald Malcolm. Egyptology under Khedive Ismail: Mariette,
        al-Tahtawi, and Brugsch, 1850-82
        5. Sasson, Jack M. Mari and the Holy Grail
        6. Younger, K. Lawson, Jr. The Production of Ancient Near Eastern
        Text Anthologies from the Earliest to the Latest

        VISUAL PERSPECTIVES
        7. Bohrer, Frederick N. Inventing Assyria: Exoticism and Reception
        in Nineteenth-Century England and France
        8. Esposito, Donato. Dalziels' Bible Gallery (1881): Assyria and
        the Biblical Illustration in Nineteenth-Century Britain
        9. Long, Burke O. Picturing Biblical Pasts

        OF HAREMS AND HEROINES
        10. Asher-Greve, Julia M. From ?Semiramis of Babylon? to ?Semiramis
        of Hammersmith?
        11. Solvang, Elna K. Another Look ?Inside?: Harems and the
        Interpretation of Women

        ASSYRIOLOGY AND THE BIBLE
        12. Grabbe, Lester L. Biblical Historiography in the Persian
        Period:. or How the Jews Took Over the Empire
        13. Handy, Lowell K. Josiah in a New Light: Assyriology Touches the
        Reforming King
        14. Hurowitz, Victor Avigdor. Babylon in Bethel - New Light on
        Jacob's Dream
        15. Scurlock, JoAnn. Whose Truth and Whose Justice? The Uruk and
        Other Late Akkadian Prophecies re-Revisited
        --------

        Otherwise, you may be thinking of _For Lust of Knowing_ which is the "other
        title" for _Dangerous Knowledge_. It seems to fit your description.

        Stephanie Budin
      • Peter T. Daniels
        I don t think this can be the book (it hasn t been reviewed in BMCR or RBL yet), though it looks not unfamiliar and not uninteresting. Is it out yet? The
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 28, 2007
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          I don't think this can be the book (it hasn't been reviewed in BMCR or RBL yet), though it looks not unfamiliar and not uninteresting. Is it out yet? The listing says "_ca._ 600 pp."

          The alternate title for Irwin doesn't appear anywhere in the American edition, but if it's the right book, then I must say that the review I saw, wherever it may have been, was rather misleading! (I'm almost exactly halfway through.)
          --
          Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...



          ----- Original Message ----
          From: "sbudin@..." <sbudin@...>
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:11:45 PM
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] question about Orientalism book

          Quoting "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon. net>:

          > Not too long ago -- perhaps about six months ago -- one of the lists I
          > subscribe to posted a review of a recent book surveying the Orientalism
          > debate that offered a decidedly anti-Said position. Can anyone identify this
          > book for me -- and point me to the review? It is not BMCR or RBL; it may have
          > been TLS or possibly (though doubtfully) NYRB or something like that.
          >
          > It can't have been *Dangerous Knowledge*, by Robert Irwin, which is a fairly
          > superficial catalog of the history of European study of Islam and Arabic,
          > with some rather elementary mistakes in areas I know about (such as
          > consistently using "Indo-Aryan" to mean "Indo-European, " and calling the
          > editing of texts "dull but necessary" -- several times), that addresses Said
          > only in the closing chapter.
          >
          > I seem to recall that the book I'm looking for had different titles in the UK
          > and the US.

          Is this the posting you remember?:

          From <http://www.sheffiel dphoenix. com/showbook. asp?bkid= 45>:
          ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ==

          Orientalism, Assyriology and the Bible
          Edited by Steven W. Holloway
          c. 600 pp. Hardback
          Series: Hebrew Bible Monographs, 10
          1-905048-37- 8, 978-1-905048- 37-3 hardback
          £30 / $55 / ¤45 (Scholar's Price)
          £60 / $110 / ¤90 (List Price)

          ?Orientalism? refers both to the academic study of the Orient and
          to Western scholarship that clings to stock images of the timeless
          East and oriental despotism. This landmark collection of essays,
          the first in its field, is written by seasoned art historians,
          Assyriologists and biblical specialists; it is organized under four
          rubrics:

          --------

          Otherwise, you may be thinking of _For Lust of Knowing_ which is the "other
          title" for _Dangerous Knowledge_. It seems to fit your description.
        • Robert Griffin
          Might this be it? http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25340-2184814,00.html The article, titled Where Edward Said was wrong , is by Christopher de
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 31, 2007
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            Might this be it?
            http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25340-2184814,00.html
            The article, titled 'Where Edward Said was wrong", is by Christopher
            de Bellaigue, and is a review of Robert Irwin's _For Lust of Knowing_.

            Be Well,
            Bob Griffin
            --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I don't think this can be the book (it hasn't been reviewed in BMCR
            or RBL yet), though it looks not unfamiliar and not uninteresting. Is
            it out yet? The listing says "_ca._ 600 pp."
            >
            > The alternate title for Irwin doesn't appear anywhere in the
            American edition, but if it's the right book, then I must say that
            the review I saw, wherever it may have been, was rather misleading!
            (I'm almost exactly halfway through.)
            > --
            > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: "sbudin@..." <sbudin@...>
            > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:11:45 PM
            > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] question about Orientalism book
            >
            > Quoting "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon. net>:
            >
            > > Not too long ago -- perhaps about six months ago -- one of the
            lists I
            > > subscribe to posted a review of a recent book surveying the
            Orientalism
            > > debate that offered a decidedly anti-Said position. Can anyone
            identify this
            > > book for me -- and point me to the review? It is not BMCR or RBL;
            it may have
            > > been TLS or possibly (though doubtfully) NYRB or something like
            that.
            > >
            > > It can't have been *Dangerous Knowledge*, by Robert Irwin, which
            is a fairly
            > > superficial catalog of the history of European study of Islam and
            Arabic,
            > > with some rather elementary mistakes in areas I know about (such
            as
            > > consistently using "Indo-Aryan" to mean "Indo-European, " and
            calling the
            > > editing of texts "dull but necessary" -- several times), that
            addresses Said
            > > only in the closing chapter.
            > >
            > > I seem to recall that the book I'm looking for had different
            titles in the UK
            > > and the US.
            >
            > Is this the posting you remember?:
            >
            > From <http://www.sheffiel dphoenix. com/showbook. asp?bkid= 45>:
            > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ==
            >
            > Orientalism, Assyriology and the Bible
            > Edited by Steven W. Holloway
            > c. 600 pp. Hardback
            > Series: Hebrew Bible Monographs, 10
            > 1-905048-37- 8, 978-1-905048- 37-3 hardback
            > £30 / $55 / ¤45 (Scholar's Price)
            > £60 / $110 / ¤90 (List Price)
            >
            > ?Orientalism? refers both to the academic study of the Orient and
            > to Western scholarship that clings to stock images of the timeless
            > East and oriental despotism. This landmark collection of essays,
            > the first in its field, is written by seasoned art historians,
            > Assyriologists and biblical specialists; it is organized under four
            > rubrics:
            >
            > --------
            >
            > Otherwise, you may be thinking of _For Lust of Knowing_ which is
            the "other
            > title" for _Dangerous Knowledge_. It seems to fit your description.
            >
          • Peter T. Daniels
            I think that s the very review! I suspect a TLS-reader friend sent it to me in hard-copy, which is why I can t find it on line! Coincidentally, I ve just read
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 31, 2007
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              I think that's the very review! I suspect a TLS-reader friend sent it to me in hard-copy, which is why I can't find it on line!

              Coincidentally, I've just read the short accounts of Browne and Nicholson that the reviewer focuses on. People should let me know if they'd be interested in my comments when I finish.
              --
              Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Robert Griffin <muggleorsquib@...>
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:25:04 PM
              Subject: [ANE-2] Re: question about Orientalism book

              Might this be it?
              http://tls.timesonl ine.co.uk/ article/0, ,25340-2184814, 00.html
              The article, titled 'Where Edward Said was wrong", is by Christopher
              de Bellaigue, and is a review of Robert Irwin's _For Lust of Knowing_.

              Be Well,
              Bob Griffin
              --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@. ..>
              wrote:
              >
              > I don't think this can be the book (it hasn't been reviewed in BMCR
              or RBL yet), though it looks not unfamiliar and not uninteresting. Is
              it out yet? The listing says "_ca._ 600 pp."
              >
              > The alternate title for Irwin doesn't appear anywhere in the
              American edition, but if it's the right book, then I must say that
              the review I saw, wherever it may have been, was rather misleading!
              (I'm almost exactly halfway through.)
              > --
              > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@.. .
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: "sbudin@..." <sbudin@...>
              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:11:45 PM
              > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] question about Orientalism book
              >
              > Quoting "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon. net>:
              >
              > > Not too long ago -- perhaps about six months ago -- one of the
              lists I
              > > subscribe to posted a review of a recent book surveying the
              Orientalism
              > > debate that offered a decidedly anti-Said position. Can anyone
              identify this
              > > book for me -- and point me to the review? It is not BMCR or RBL;
              it may have
              > > been TLS or possibly (though doubtfully) NYRB or something like
              that.
              > >
              > > It can't have been *Dangerous Knowledge*, by Robert Irwin, which
              is a fairly
              > > superficial catalog of the history of European study of Islam and
              Arabic,
              > > with some rather elementary mistakes in areas I know about (such
              as
              > > consistently using "Indo-Aryan" to mean "Indo-European, " and
              calling the
              > > editing of texts "dull but necessary" -- several times), that
              addresses Said
              > > only in the closing chapter.
              > >
              > > I seem to recall that the book I'm looking for had different
              titles in the UK
              > > and the US.
              >
              > Is this the posting you remember?:
              >
              > From <http://www.sheffiel dphoenix. com/showbook. asp?bkid= 45>:
              > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ==
              >
              > Orientalism, Assyriology and the Bible
              > Edited by Steven W. Holloway
              > c. 600 pp. Hardback
              > Series: Hebrew Bible Monographs, 10
              > 1-905048-37- 8, 978-1-905048- 37-3 hardback
              > £30 / $55 / ¤45 (Scholar's Price)
              > £60 / $110 / ¤90 (List Price)
              >
              > ?Orientalism? refers both to the academic study of the Orient and
              > to Western scholarship that clings to stock images of the timeless
              > East and oriental despotism. This landmark collection of essays,
              > the first in its field, is written by seasoned art historians,
              > Assyriologists and biblical specialists; it is organized under four
              > rubrics:
              >
              > --------
              >
              > Otherwise, you may be thinking of _For Lust of Knowing_ which is
              the "other
              > title" for _Dangerous Knowledge_. It seems to fit your description.
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Robert Griffin
              ... it to me in hard-copy, which is why I can t find it on line! ... Nicholson that the reviewer focuses on. People should let me know if they d be interested
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 1, 2007
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                --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I think that's the very review! I suspect a TLS-reader friend sent
                it to me in hard-copy, which is why I can't find it on line!
                >
                > Coincidentally, I've just read the short accounts of Browne and
                Nicholson that the reviewer focuses on. People should let me know if
                they'd be interested in my comments when I finish.
                > --
                > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...

                I'm definitely interested.
                Thanks,
                Bob Griffin
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