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Re: [ANE-2] Solomon and Ur-Salimu and Abram

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  • Yitzhak Sapir
    ... Dear Niels Peter Lemche, The DSS Isaiah scroll appears to have the spelling yrw$lym which would indicate this development had already occurred. I am not
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 28, 2006
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      On 2/28/06, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:
      >
      > Nope,,
      > Abram > Abraham part of biblical narrative. Jerusalem to Jerusalaim
      > a post/ *very post( biblical development.
      >
      > NPLemche

      Dear Niels Peter Lemche,

      The DSS Isaiah scroll appears to have the spelling yrw$lym which would
      indicate this development had already occurred. I am not sure if you'd
      consider that a "very post biblical development," though probably many
      others would.

      See the following link:
      http://mikranet.cet.ac.il/pages/item.asp?item=4579
      Kutscher, Yehezkel, "The Massoretic Text of Isaiah as compared to the
      Dead Sea Scroll Text" (1980) (Hebrew)

      Yitzhak Sapir
    • Jim West
      ... Not strictly related to the ANE per se is the interesting fact that in the New Testament Gospel of John the form of the word in Greek is plural- Cf Jn
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 28, 2006
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        At 11:26 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote:
        >Nope,,
        >Abram > Abraham part of biblical narrative. Jerusalem to Jerusalaim
        >a post/ *very post( biblical development.
        >
        >NPLemche


        Not strictly related to the ANE per se is the interesting fact that
        in the New Testament Gospel of John the form of the word in Greek is plural-

        Cf Jn 2:23, for example. However the word came to be formed in
        Hebrew- by the time it's rendered in Greek it's something of a pluralized form.

        Why? Perhaps the Greek translators read Yerushalayim as a dual form
        and had to do something with it. Greek has no dual form as does
        Hebrew so its only natural, I think, to posit a simple misunderstanding.

        Given that- isn't it remotely possible that an earlier form of the
        name of the city was also misunderstood or misapprehended from
        whatever the original language of the city to the Hebrew form of the word?

        Jim




        Jim West

        http://web.infoave.net/~jwest Biblical Studies Resources


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Don Mills
        ... Apart from the fact that it appears as the regular form throughout the biblical text, except in the Aramaic portions. Which difference is in itself
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 28, 2006
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          At 16:26 28/02/2006, NPL wrote:

          -----<snip>-----
          >Abram > Abraham part of biblical narrative. Jerusalem to Jerusalaim
          >a post/ *very post( biblical development.
          -----<end>-----

          Apart from the fact that it appears as the regular form throughout
          the biblical text, except in the Aramaic portions. Which difference
          is in itself interesting. How is "post-biblical" defined? And what
          of the claim that it appears on "the Jewish coins of the Revolt"?

          Regards,

          -- Don Mills [London, England]

          [Exceeding my bandwidth? Back to work, Don!]


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        • Stern, Richard H.
          ... From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim West Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:46 AM To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 28, 2006
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            -----Original Message-----
            From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
            Jim West
            Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:46 AM
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: SV: [ANE-2] Solomon and Ur-Salimu and Abram

            ***Given that- isn't it remotely possible that an earlier form of the
            name of the city was also misunderstood or misapprehended from
            whatever the original language of the city to the Hebrew form of the word?

            Jim

            =====

            Jim, wouldn't the 'original' language of the city be just another dialect of South Canaanite, not much more different from Hebnrew than Moabite was or whatever they were speaking in Dor or Ashdod before the Sea People came was?

            For example, Jebusite? (Assuming that the Jebusi were not talking a dialect of Hivite, Hurrian, or something like that.)

            =====================================
            Best regards.

            Richard H. Stern
            rstern@... rstern@...
            Washington, DC
            http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/claw/rhs1.htm
            =====================================
          • Jim West
            ... I don t know. It seems we have evidence of Egyptian occupation (Amarna) but that seems the only written evidence before the 9th century or so, doesn t it?
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 28, 2006
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              Stern Richard H wrote:

              >
              > Jim, wouldn't the 'original' language of the city be just another dialect of South Canaanite, not much more different from Hebnrew than Moabite was or whatever they were speaking in Dor or Ashdod before the Sea People came was?
              >
              > For example, Jebusite? (Assuming that the Jebusi were not talking a dialect of Hivite, Hurrian, or something like that.)
              >

              I don't know. It seems we have evidence of Egyptian occupation (Amarna)
              but that seems the only written evidence before the 9th century or so,
              doesn't it?

              Does Egyptian make use of a dual ending (pace Cynthia and Talmon!)?
              Should we not be seeking the origin of the name in Egyptian? Egyptian
              isn't a Semitic language is it?

              Best as always,

              Jim


              --
              Jim West

              http://web.infoave.net/~jwest -- Biblical Studies Resources
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