Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Ancient Nationlism?

Expand Messages
  • victor
    Dear Niels, I think you’re being a bit harsh on what you perceive of as Andrew’s shoddy transliteration. I assume your first sentence should read “If
    Message 1 of 33 , Jan 2, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Niels,

      I think you’re being a bit harsh on what you perceive of as Andrew’s shoddy
      transliteration. I assume your first sentence should read “If only you
      started on a Hebrew course!” Your second probably should be either “Then we
      would not have…” or “That way we would not have…” Further on I think you
      mean to say “the worst <is> that you do not recognize….”

      Be all this as it may, I personally don’t see any cardinal sin in Andrew’s
      transliteration given the limitations of ANE and speed. Diacriticals are not
      usable on ANE and marking the mater lectionis by parentheses may have
      demanded to much of an effort. Were I to fault him on anything it would be
      the lack of some sign of the ‘alef.

      As for Andrew’s suggestion itself and his use of Hexpla – well, I just
      don’t’ understand it and I don’t have Hexapla in front of me to help me out.

      Best,

      Victor Hurowitz

      BGU Beer Sheva



      _____

      From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      Niels Peter Lemche
      Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:06 AM
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: SV: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Ancient Nationlism?



      In only you started on a Hebrew course! That we would not have all these
      faulty transcriptions. ulalfeyhem : several problems, the worst that you do
      not recognize the use of mater lectionis in -fe(y), the -y- is a mater
      lectionis and therefore not to be transcribed as y. The idea about
      Greek/Hebrew here is simply nonsense. You don't substitute what is perfectly
      understandable with what is not.

      I think that you should leave the Books of Samuel for a while and look
      through the OT for the use of these family terms. You will probably be
      surprised -- if you because of lack of formal training can see it -- when
      you see how these terms are used and the competition between certain terms.
      All explained in Early Israel.

      Niels Peter Lemche

      -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
      Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups. <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com
      [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com] På vegne af
      Andrew Fincke
      Sendt: 2. januar 2007 00:46
      Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups. <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com
      Emne: Re: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Ancient Nationlism?

      What is all the confusion about tribe, clan and Benjamin? 1 Sam 9:21 is very
      clear: "Am I not a Benjamite, of the smallest of the tribes of Israel? And
      my family is the meagerest of all the families of the tribes of Benjamin?"
      And if that doesn't confuse you, try 1 Sam 10:19: "And now stand before the
      L--- to your tribes and to your thousands!" "Thousands" is elef and "and to
      your thousands" ulalfeyhem. It seems that the author meant to say fule
      "family" in Greek and got the word backward elef. Or it came out so in the
      Hexapla, which has Hebrew transcribed in Greek letters.
      Andrew Fincke

      "Ariel L. Szczupak" <ane.als@gmail. <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com> com> wrote:
      At 06:57 PM 12/31/2006, Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
      >[...]do you think that using those terms would add contents,
      >understanding to the discourse on those issues?

      I just thought of a possible example. If I recall correctly in
      anthropology "family" implies that inter-marriage is forbidden,
      taboo, "clan" (or gens, or sib) implies that inter-marriage is
      discouraged and "tribe" implies that inter-marriage is accepted, even
      encouraged. But I'm not certain - maybe someone with access to
      anthropology textbooks can check it.

      In that case calling a group a "clan" or a "tribe" would not be
      simply using different labels, or a determination based on vague
      perceptions of the size of the group, but would have implications as
      to the characteristics of the group.

      Just a thought ...

      Ariel.

      [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

      ---
      Ariel L. Szczupak
      AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
      POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
      Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
      ane.als@gmail. <mailto:ane.als%40gmail.com> com

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      Yahoo! Groups Links





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • nancy in chicago
      That s an interesting point -- where to begin. I ve only dipped into this occassionally, since you guys lost me long ago. I m just an interested observer.
      Message 33 of 33 , Jan 4, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        That's an interesting point -- where to begin. I've only dipped into this occassionally, since you guys lost me long ago. I'm just an interested observer. Can you give me some names of books to read, etc, to get more up to speed? And, especially, some assistance on teach yourself (since I'll never speak, just read) languages. Thanks!

        Where, if much of my knowledge on these subjects comes from BAR, BR (magazines) and books such as "Who Wrote the Bible?" by Friedman, "The Bible as History" By Keller & several courses from the Learning Company (www.teach12.com) with such lecturers as Bart D. Ehrman and Amy-Jill Levine. And a few Bible study classes at church.

        nancy in chicago
        Nancy L. Jones
        Arlington Hts, IL
        Interested Amature

        "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's toodark
        to read." Groucho Marx

        ---------- Original Message-----------
        From: Andrew Fincke <finckean@...>
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:20:14 -0800 (PST)
        Subject: Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Ancient Nationlism?

        > NP,
        >Where to begin? With The Israelites in History and Tradition, 1998? orPrelude to Israel's Past, 1998? Or Historical Dictionary, 2003? Or DieVogeschichte, 1996? Please advise.
        >Andrew Fincke
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.