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SV: "nation" Re: SV: [ANE-2] Yahwism and syncretism

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  • Thomas L. Thompson
    I think Gottwald mixes categories and does not distinguish a theological world of stories and the historical ancient world outside his texts. However, his
    Message 1 of 59 , Dec 29, 2006
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      I think Gottwald mixes categories and does not distinguish a theological world of stories and the historical ancient world outside his texts. However, his association of social science information is complex enough to keep one's attention over 1000 pages; so I would refer you to my Early History of 1992, 27-77 or Niels Peter's Early History of 1985 which treats your question quite well.
      Thomas

      Thomas L. Thompson
      University of Copenhagen

      Niels and Thomas:
      What is your assessment of Gottwald's elaboration of the social
      structure in "The Tribes of Yahweh"? Are his discussions of Shevet,
      Mishpahah, Beth-Av, etc. simply the imposition of his 20th century
      conceptions of tribe and family on the ancient text or did he
      legitimately extrapolate their connotations from their usage in the
      ancient texts? This is not a baiting question, I'm trying to
      understand your position. Since you both make statements about the
      ancient world, you obviously think that truthful observations can be
      made about it.

      Donald R. Vance, Ph.D.
      Professor of Biblical Languages and Literature
      Oral Roberts University
      dvance@... <mailto:dvance%40oru.edu>
      donaldrvance@... <mailto:donaldrvance%40mac.com>






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Niels Peter Lemche
      Bruce, while you are waiting, may I recommend another old thing by me, On the Use of System Theory, Macro Theories, and Evolutionistic Thinking In Modern
      Message 59 of 59 , Dec 30, 2006
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        Bruce,

        while you are waiting, may I recommend another old thing by me, On the Use of "System Theory," "Macro Theories," and "Evolutionistic Thinking" In Modern Old Testament Research and Biblical Archaeology, which was originally published in SJOT in 1990, and reprinted in Charles E. Carter and Carol L. Meyers, Community, Identity, and Ideology (Winona Lake: Eisenbrauns, 1997), pp. 273-286. Much better than fighting a strawman. It is really my "kata" cultural evolutionism.

        Just picked up this morning at the post office Karl Popper's The Poverty of Historicism, his attack on historical determinism. Sounds promising.

        Niels Peter Lemche



        -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
        Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af E Bruce Brooks
        Sendt: 30. december 2006 10:50
        Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Emne: Re: "nation" Re: SV: [ANE-2] Yahwism and syncretism

        To: ANE-2
        In Response To: Thomas Thompson
        On: Previous Opinions
        From: Bruce

        THOMAS: In Early Israel, Niels Peter offers a solid critique of the "models"
        approach to social anthropology. His position should not be misinterpreted
        here.

        BRUCE: Oddly enough, I had already taken steps to get a look at this book.
        It may turn up in a week or so. Always happy to learn. Meanwhile, I hope I
        may be forgiven for being amused at the predictably postmodern turn this
        conversation is taking. A is explicating B, and is doing so by referencing a
        work of 500 pages written 20 years ago. If things run true to form, we will
        soon be hearing about Bayesian statistics, which appeal to the "models"
        folks by requiring that, before calculating the answer, you have to commit
        yourself to an opinion about what the answer is. You can't just do the
        computations and see how they come out.

        Such things are of course for the list managers to decide, and I am as
        always their most humble and obedient servant, but I should think it
        enhances conversation if participants will say what they mean (as of the
        current year), and if, failing that, the amount of deep background required
        of others to interpret what they say is kept down somewhere below book
        length.

        Best wishes to all, in the incipient 2007,

        Bruce

        E Bruce Brooks
        Warring States Project
        University of Massachusetts at Amherst
        http://www.umass.edu/wsp




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