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Re: [ANE-2] The God Haldi

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  • victor avigdor hurowitz
    DDD would have no reference to Haldi because no one has suggested that he is mentioned in the Bible, which is the criteria for inclusion in DDD. I mentioned in
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 16, 2006
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      DDD would have no reference to Haldi because no one has suggested that he
      is mentioned in the Bible, which is the criteria for inclusion in DDD.
      I mentioned in a previous email which seems not to have arrived at
      ANE-2 that Haldi is the Urartean god mentioned
      in Sargon's 8th campaign. That inscription contains a very detailed
      Kultinventar of Haldi's temple and also mentions a Mrs Haldi, Bagbarta
      i$tar$u (l. 423; I call her affectionately Big Bertha).
      Victor



      On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:

      > Found no God of this name in RLA, but references to these
      >
      > Chadatashshi, Heth. Göttern ame ... 'der des Rufens' (Laroche), and
      > Chaldi'asira, Gottheit (urartäischer Herkunft?) (Edzard).
      >
      > In COS III, p. 219, an Aramaic Stela Fragment (the Bukan
      > inscription), a God Chaldi is mentioned together with Hadad: e.g. l.
      > 11: 'May Hadad and Chaldi overturn his throne'. A note describes
      > Chaldi as an Urartean god of war, and Paul E. Zimanski describes him
      > as the principal god of Urartu--however without Hurrian connotations:
      > Se Zimamsky, 'The Kingdom of Urartu in Eastern Anatolia', CANE II
      > (1995, pp. 1135-1146, pp. 1144-5.
      >
      > You will need to provide more solid evidence of 1: occurrences of
      > this god that predates the first millennium BCE (Urartu belongs to
      > that milennium and not the 2nd).
      > 2. You need to watch more closely what we know about this god from
      > Urartean inscriptions.
      > 3. You have to find evidence of emerging monotheism among the
      > Urateans of the 1st millennium.
      >
      > As to 3, it is not absolutely impossible as we are down into a period
      > with emerging monotheism all over the ANE: See more on this Herbert
      > Niehr, Der Höchste Gott. Alttestamentlicher JHWH-Glaube im Kontext
      > syrisch-kanaanäischer Religion des 1. Jahrtausends v.Chr, BZAW:
      > Berlin, de Gruyter 1990.
      >
      > DDD has no entry dealing with this God
      >
      > NPLemche
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Patrick Ryan
      Thank you for the detailed answer. In my drowsy state, I misstated Hurrian rather than Urartian. I am not proposing Haldi as a monotheistic god only wondering
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 16, 2006
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        Thank you for the detailed answer. In my drowsy state, I misstated Hurrian rather than Urartian.

        I am not proposing Haldi as a monotheistic god only wondering if someone else has.

        I thought someone researching early monotheistic tendencies might have come across some indications.

        Perhaps my question was rather naïve.


        Patrick
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Niels Peter Lemche<mailto:np13867@...>
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:52 AM
        Subject: [ANE-2] The God Haldi


        Found no God of this name in RLA, but references to these

        Chadatashshi, Heth. Göttern ame ... 'der des Rufens' (Laroche), and
        Chaldi'asira, Gottheit (urartäischer Herkunft?) (Edzard).

        In COS III, p. 219, an Aramaic Stela Fragment (the Bukan
        inscription), a God Chaldi is mentioned together with Hadad: e.g. l.
        11: 'May Hadad and Chaldi overturn his throne'. A note describes
        Chaldi as an Urartean god of war, and Paul E. Zimanski describes him
        as the principal god of Urartu--however without Hurrian connotations:
        Se Zimamsky, 'The Kingdom of Urartu in Eastern Anatolia', CANE II
        (1995, pp. 1135-1146, pp. 1144-5.

        You will need to provide more solid evidence of 1: occurrences of
        this god that predates the first millennium BCE (Urartu belongs to
        that milennium and not the 2nd).
        2. You need to watch more closely what we know about this god from
        Urartean inscriptions.
        3. You have to find evidence of emerging monotheism among the
        Urarteans of the 1st millennium.

        As to 3, it is not absolutely impossible as we are down into a period
        with emerging monotheism all over the ANE: See more on this Herbert
        Niehr, Der Höchste Gott. Alttestamentlicher JHWH-Glaube im Kontext
        syrisch-kanaanäischer Religion des 1. Jahrtausends v.Chr, BZAW:
        Berlin, de Gruyter 1990.

        DDD has no entry dealing with this God

        NPLemche





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      • Trudy Kawami
        Patrick, Given the tendency in the first mill BCE to equate single deities with nation-states (Assyria is the clearest example) it s not monotheism but
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 16, 2006
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          Patrick,

          Given the tendency in the first mill BCE to equate single deities with nation-states (Assyria is the clearest example) it's not monotheism but nationalism behind the "elevation" of specific deities.

          Trudy Kawami



          ________________________________

          From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Ryan
          Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:15 AM
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] The God Haldi



          Thank you for the detailed answer. In my drowsy state, I misstated Hurrian rather than Urartian.

          I am not proposing Haldi as a monotheistic god only wondering if someone else has.

          I thought someone researching early monotheistic tendencies might have come across some indications.

          Perhaps my question was rather naïve.


          Patrick
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Niels Peter Lemche<mailto:np13867@...>
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:52 AM
          Subject: [ANE-2] The God Haldi


          Found no God of this name in RLA, but references to these

          Chadatashshi, Heth. Göttern ame ... 'der des Rufens' (Laroche), and
          Chaldi'asira, Gottheit (urartäischer Herkunft?) (Edzard).

          In COS III, p. 219, an Aramaic Stela Fragment (the Bukan
          inscription), a God Chaldi is mentioned together with Hadad: e.g. l.
          11: 'May Hadad and Chaldi overturn his throne'. A note describes
          Chaldi as an Urartean god of war, and Paul E. Zimanski describes him
          as the principal god of Urartu--however without Hurrian connotations:
          Se Zimamsky, 'The Kingdom of Urartu in Eastern Anatolia', CANE II
          (1995, pp. 1135-1146, pp. 1144-5.

          You will need to provide more solid evidence of 1: occurrences of
          this god that predates the first millennium BCE (Urartu belongs to
          that milennium and not the 2nd).
          2. You need to watch more closely what we know about this god from
          Urartean inscriptions.
          3. You have to find evidence of emerging monotheism among the
          Urarteans of the 1st millennium.

          As to 3, it is not absolutely impossible as we are down into a period
          with emerging monotheism all over the ANE: See more on this Herbert
          Niehr, Der Höchste Gott. Alttestamentlicher JHWH-Glaube im Kontext
          syrisch-kanaanäischer Religion des 1. Jahrtausends v.Chr, BZAW:
          Berlin, de Gruyter 1990.

          DDD has no entry dealing with this God

          NPLemche





          SPONSORED LINKS Near<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t==ms&k==Near&w1==Near&w2==Ancient&w3==University+of+chicago&c==3&s=P&.sig==aVz6i_8jEdKbBX8H7JNf2A> Ancient<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t==ms&k==Ancient&w1==Near&w2==Ancient&w3==University+of+chicago&c==3&s=P&.sig==i__45E9H9auv49UTibKO4g> University of chicago<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t==ms&k==University+of+chicago&w1==Near&w2==Ancient&w3==University+of+chicago&c==3&s=P&.sig==YnBSDXrWnRu6PQo-N0zxtg>


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          b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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