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Egyptian Fantasia

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  • Jan Picton
    AN EGYPTIAN FANTASIA An Egyptian Fantasia - a Celebration of Egypt Ancient and Modern will be a festival of food and culture, art and performance, and much
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 3, 2006
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      'AN EGYPTIAN FANTASIA'

      An Egyptian Fantasia - a Celebration of Egypt Ancient and Modern will be a festival of food and culture, art and performance, and much more.
      Music and dance performances, story-telling, a display of authentic
      replica costumes, and exhibitions. The evening continues with a feast of Middle Eastern delicacies accompanied by further performance, with each table hosted by a guest Egyptologist. This will be followed by a guest speaker, Dr Barbara Mertz, better known as Elizabeth Peters, author of the successful Amelia Peabody Egyptian mysteries. The evening concludes with an auction of art and Egyptomania items.

      The auction will take place on the evening of September 16th but as with the annual Petrie Book Auction it is possible to participate online - items on view on www.ucl.ac.uk.FriendsofPetrie - follow the link and register to place bids by email

      organised by the Friends of the Petrie Museum
      16 September 2006
      Venue: South Cloisters UCL, Gower St, London WC1
      Time 4pm - midnight (or 4-6.30pm)
      Full ticket, 4pm - midnight, £200; prequel ticket, 4pm - 6.30pm, £50.

      For further information, visit the Friends of the Petrie Museum website
      (www.ucl.ac.uk/FriendsofPetrie) or contact Jan Picton
      (j.picton@...). For enquiries about the event please contact Jan
      Picton on 07761 823129, or at the Petrie Museum UCL, Malet Place, London
      WC1E 6BT.

      --
    • Doug Weller
      Thanks. He won t give up, his latest post (in reply to mine, where one of the things I said, and I still think I am right, is that Sumerian is verb final, but
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 4, 2006
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        Thanks.
        He won't give up, his latest post (in reply to mine, where one of the things I said, and I still think I am right, is that Sumerian is verb final, but he gives an example where it isn't) is here:

        ""THere is no word ATAL"

        so why does this say there is
        [psd.museum.upenn.edu]

        And the Sumerian word for mountain seems to be HUR.SAG,
        there are lots of sumerian words for mountain
        [psd.museum.upenn.edu]
        why don't you try using this resource to find them instead of assuming
        you know what happens when you assume don't you Doug

        you will notice that one of the words for mountain is IS
        [psd.museum.upenn.edu]

        And Sumerian is a strictly verb-final language. Which is why a 'word' with the verb at the beginning makes no sense and can't be found in any real texts.
        it comes down to the text it is found in
        Atal if following on the end of a sentence would be found before AN and IS
        here is a famous line from the descent of inanna
        inana an mu-un-sub ki mu-un-sub kur-ra ba-e-a-ed3
        Inana abandoned heaven, abandoned earth, and descended to the underworld.
        as you can see the verbs are not all at the end of the sentence
        it depends on the placing of the genitatives ant the determinatives
        so you are talking bollox

        A.TAL.AN.IS

        how would you say it in english
        duh "

        Among other things I've said in my reply is that his word ATAL (now A.TAL I see) is 2 words, one of which, 'tal', seems to mean jug.

        Doug
      • Robert M Whiting
        Doug, you are simply wasting your time with this person. He does not know anything about Sumerian for if he did he would realize that no one who knows
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 5, 2006
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          Doug, you are simply wasting your time with this person. He does not know
          anything about Sumerian for if he did he would realize that no one who
          knows anything about Sumerian would countenance his suggestion for a
          moment. He also show that he has no idea what SOV word order means. You
          will not convince him that his idea is nonsense because he does not have
          the knowledge base to be able to realize this. The fact that "he won't
          give up" is simply characteristic of those who have no basis for
          evaluating the shortcomings of their arguments.

          Bob Whiting
          whiting@...

          On Tue, 5 Sep 2006, Doug Weller wrote:

          > Thanks. He won't give up, his latest post (in reply to mine, where one
          > of the things I said, and I still think I am right, is that Sumerian is
          > verb final, but he gives an example where it isn't) is here:
          >
          > ""THere is no word ATAL"
          >
          > so why does this say there is
          > [psd.museum.upenn.edu]
          >
          > And the Sumerian word for mountain seems to be HUR.SAG,
          > there are lots of sumerian words for mountain
          > [psd.museum.upenn.edu]
          > why don't you try using this resource to find them instead of assuming
          > you know what happens when you assume don't you Doug
          >
          > you will notice that one of the words for mountain is IS
          > [psd.museum.upenn.edu]
          >
          > And Sumerian is a strictly verb-final language. Which is why a 'word'
          > with the verb at the beginning makes no sense and can't be found in any
          > real texts. it comes down to the text it is found in Atal if following
          > on the end of a sentence would be found before AN and IS here is a
          > famous line from the descent of inanna
          > inana an mu-un-sub ki mu-un-sub kur-ra ba-e-a-ed3
          > Inana abandoned heaven, abandoned earth, and descended to the
          > underworld.
          > as you can see the verbs are not all at the end of the sentence
          > it depends on the placing of the genitatives ant the determinatives
          > so you are talking bollox
          >
          > A.TAL.AN.IS
          >
          > how would you say it in english
          > duh "
          >
          > Among other things I've said in my reply is that his word ATAL (now
          > A.TAL I see) is 2 words, one of which, 'tal', seems to mean jug.
          >
          > Doug
        • Marc Cooper
          Doug, There are two issues here. The first concerns the use of Sumerian in the etymology, and the second concerns methodology. Your correspondent claims that
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 5, 2006
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            Doug,

            There are two issues here. The first concerns the use of Sumerian in
            the etymology, and the second concerns methodology.

            Your correspondent claims that a2-tal an i$ is the etymology of
            Atlantis. Here are problems I can see:

            The PSD guesses that atal, a rare word, may mean engulf in Sumerian
            based on the idea that it is an Akkadian loan word. In effect, the
            meaning of the word is based on a reasonable guess, but it's just a
            guess. The use of the word in the Atlantis etymology is therefore
            weakened.

            an-i$i doesn't mean heavenly mountain. In Sumerian, adjectives come
            after the noun they modify.

            Sumerian is not absolutely verb final, but objects regularly precede
            verbs.

            Finally, no such phrase exists in any Sumerian document, nor is
            there referernce to an Atlantean type myth in the Sumerian literary
            corpus.

            Taken together, this is an extremely weak etymology.

            But there is also a methodological issue. There is no special reason
            to choose Sumerian words for an etymology. Even if I believed that
            Plato offers a real tradition rather than a fictional illustration,
            since he claims that Solon got the story from the Egyptians,
            wouldn't Egyptian be the right place to look for an etymology? There
            has to be some reason for the choice of underlying language. I take
            it that the author found the PSD online and picked out some words
            which strung together sound sort of like like Atlantis, forgetting
            for the moment that the t isn't there and the s is an $. A good
            etymology is a history of the word. How did Plato get Atlantis from
            the Sumerians when the name doesn't occur in Akkadian or Egyptian so
            that it can loaned to the Greeks?

            Finally, any one can play this game. For instance, consider the
            Sumerian phrase I$i-ra il which I just made up. Look familiar: it
            means "Brought forth to the Mountain." You see if one has access to
            many languages, and there are nearly infinite ways to describe
            something, at least several of languages are likely to provide an
            etymon. This is a matter of chance which cannot be taken seriously.
            In the end, because it is very difficult to prove an etymology,
            etymologies have to be reasonable to others in the field. This one
            isn't.

            Marc Cooper

            --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Doug Weller <dweller@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks.
            > He won't give up, his latest post (in reply to mine, where one of
            the things I said, and I still think I am right, is that Sumerian is
            verb final, but he gives an example where it isn't) is here:
            >
            > ""THere is no word ATAL"
            >
            > so why does this say there is
            > [psd.museum.upenn.edu]
            >
            > And the Sumerian word for mountain seems to be HUR.SAG,
            > there are lots of sumerian words for mountain
            > [psd.museum.upenn.edu]
            > why don't you try using this resource to find them instead of
            assuming
            > you know what happens when you assume don't you Doug
            >
            > you will notice that one of the words for mountain is IS
            > [psd.museum.upenn.edu]
            >
            > And Sumerian is a strictly verb-final language. Which is why
            a 'word' with the verb at the beginning makes no sense and can't be
            found in any real texts.
            > it comes down to the text it is found in
            > Atal if following on the end of a sentence would be found before
            AN and IS
            > here is a famous line from the descent of inanna
            > inana an mu-un-sub ki mu-un-sub kur-ra ba-e-a-ed3
            > Inana abandoned heaven, abandoned earth, and descended to the
            underworld.
            > as you can see the verbs are not all at the end of the sentence
            > it depends on the placing of the genitatives ant the determinatives
            > so you are talking bollox
            >
            > A.TAL.AN.IS
            >
            > how would you say it in english
            > duh "
            >
            > Among other things I've said in my reply is that his word ATAL
            (now A.TAL I see) is 2 words, one of which, 'tal', seems to mean jug.
            >
            > Doug
            >
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