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Re: [ANE-2] A new beginning

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  • drbrucekgardner@aol.com
    Hi ANE2 Listers, What do listers make of the story of Enoch who walked with God in Genesis 5, in an ANE context? Do listers know of any references or ANE
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 16, 2006
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      Hi ANE2 Listers,

      What do listers make of the story of 'Enoch who walked with God' in Genesis
      5, in an ANE context? Do listers know of any references or ANE parallels on
      this that I could follow up?

      Thanks,

      Bruce Gardner
      Aberdeen Scotland UK.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Victor Hurowitz
      Have a look at Author: Kvanvig,
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 16, 2006
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        Have a look at




        Author:

        Kvanvig,
        <javascript:open_window(%22http://dahab.bgu.ac.il:80/F/6IKSRLUS2LRCC11B94VVY
        85N53MAGHKHSVA9HMHBS2MBMNNSAN-03129?func=service&doc_number=001222661&line_n
        umber=0006&service_type=TAG%22);> Helge S., 1948-


        Title:

        Roots
        <javascript:open_window(%22http://dahab.bgu.ac.il:80/F/6IKSRLUS2LRCC11B94VVY
        85N53MAGHKHSVA9HMHBS2MBMNNSAN-03130?func=service&doc_number=001222661&line_n
        umber=0007&service_type=TAG%22);> of apocalyptic :
        the Mesopotamian background of the Enoch figure and of the Son of Man /
        Helge S. Kvanvig


        Published:

        Neukirchen-Vluyn
        <javascript:open_window(%22http://dahab.bgu.ac.il:80/F/6IKSRLUS2LRCC11B94VVY
        85N53MAGHKHSVA9HMHBS2MBMNNSAN-03131?func=service&doc_number=001222661&line_n
        umber=0008&service_type=TAG%22);> : Neukirchener Verlag, 1988








        Victor



        -----Original Message-----
        From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        drbrucekgardner@...
        Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:57 AM
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] A new beginning



        Hi ANE2 Listers,



        What do listers make of the story of 'Enoch who walked with God' in Genesis


        5, in an ANE context? Do listers know of any references or ANE parallels on


        this that I could follow up?



        Thanks,



        Bruce Gardner

        Aberdeen Scotland UK.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]













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      • Patrick Ryan
        Ariel, I would be interested in asking a question in the context of monotheism. Are there any indications that Haldi (Hurrian god) was the focus of a
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 16, 2006
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          Ariel,

          I would be interested in asking a question in the context of monotheism.

          Are there any indications that Haldi (Hurrian god) was the focus of a monotheistic system or one moving towards monotheism?

          Patrick
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: victor avigdor hurowitz<mailto:victor@...>
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:02 AM
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] A new(?) beginning


          Woe Ariel, Ariel!
          That biblical allusion now out of my system (Is 29:1), and
          in all due respect, I think that starting ANE-2 with a discussion of the
          "Historicity controversy" would be a very bad choice. Why don't we give
          the Bible a rest? We should start off
          by distancing ourselves from the problems which plagued the previous
          list. How about something like "monotheistic tendencies in Ancient Near
          Eastern religions outside of Israel"; Or "Aramization in the Ancient Near
          East"; or "imperialism and religion"; or "languages of communication" in
          the ancient near east, or "historicity of royal inscriptions" (if you
          insist on historicity); or tools for ancient near eastern studies in a
          cyberage, or the reading of such and such a cuneiform sign. I won't start
          off any of these discussions,
          but will certainly follow them with greater interest than I would another
          round in the biblical historicity controversary.
          Victor

          Prof. Victor Avigdor Hurowitz
          Dept. of Bible, Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
          Ben-Gurion University of the Negev
          Beer-Sheva, Israel




          On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Don Mills wrote:

          > Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
          >
          > -----<snip>-----
          > I was planning comments on methodological aspects
          > of the argumentation in the paper, but the topic of the paper can't
          > be nearer to the center of the historicity controversy. In the
          > previous list my comments would have been a reaction to something
          > already posted, but here I'd be starting the thread. So what's it to be?
          > -----<snip to end>-----
          >
          > Someone's got to start a discourse at some time, Ariel ...
          >
          > -- Don Mills [London, England]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >






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        • victor avigdor hurowitz
          I m not a Hurrologist and don t worship their gods, but isn t Haldi an Urartian god, the one mentioned in Sargon s 8th campaign? Victor
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 16, 2006
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            I'm not a Hurrologist and don't worship their gods, but isn't Haldi an
            Urartian god, the one mentioned in Sargon's 8th campaign?
            Victor



            On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Patrick Ryan wrote:

            > Ariel,
            >
            > I would be interested in asking a question in the context of monotheism.
            >
            > Are there any indications that Haldi (Hurrian god) was the focus of a monotheistic system or one moving towards monotheism?
            >
            > Patrick
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: victor avigdor hurowitz<mailto:victor@...>
            > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:02 AM
            > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] A new(?) beginning
            >
            >
            > Woe Ariel, Ariel!
            > That biblical allusion now out of my system (Is 29:1), and
            > in all due respect, I think that starting ANE-2 with a discussion of the
            > "Historicity controversy" would be a very bad choice. Why don't we give
            > the Bible a rest? We should start off
            > by distancing ourselves from the problems which plagued the previous
            > list. How about something like "monotheistic tendencies in Ancient Near
            > Eastern religions outside of Israel"; Or "Aramization in the Ancient Near
            > East"; or "imperialism and religion"; or "languages of communication" in
            > the ancient near east, or "historicity of royal inscriptions" (if you
            > insist on historicity); or tools for ancient near eastern studies in a
            > cyberage, or the reading of such and such a cuneiform sign. I won't start
            > off any of these discussions,
            > but will certainly follow them with greater interest than I would another
            > round in the biblical historicity controversary.
            > Victor
            >
            > Prof. Victor Avigdor Hurowitz
            > Dept. of Bible, Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies
            > Ben-Gurion University of the Negev
            > Beer-Sheva, Israel
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Don Mills wrote:
            >
            > > Ariel L. Szczupak wrote:
            > >
            > > -----<snip>-----
            > > I was planning comments on methodological aspects
            > > of the argumentation in the paper, but the topic of the paper can't
            > > be nearer to the center of the historicity controversy. In the
            > > previous list my comments would have been a reaction to something
            > > already posted, but here I'd be starting the thread. So what's it to be?
            > > -----<snip to end>-----
            > >
            > > Someone's got to start a discourse at some time, Ariel ...
            > >
            > > -- Don Mills [London, England]
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS Near<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Near&w1=Near&w2=Ancient&w3=University+of+chicago&c=3&s=50&.sig=aVz6i_8jEdKbBX8H7JNf2A> Ancient<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ancient&w1=Near&w2=Ancient&w3=University+of+chicago&c=3&s=50&.sig=i__45E9H9auv49UTibKO4g> University of chicago<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=University+of+chicago&w1=Near&w2=Ancient&w3=University+of+chicago&c=3&s=50&.sig=YnBSDXrWnRu6PQo-N0zxtg>
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          • Trudy Kawami
            Bruce, I cannot give you a literary reference but there is a big visual one in the Hittite reliefs of Chamber B at Yazilikaya in central Anatolia where the
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 16, 2006
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              Bruce,

              I cannot give you a literary reference but there is a big visual one in
              the Hittite reliefs of Chamber B at Yazilikaya in central Anatolia where
              the Hittite king Tudhaliyas IV is shown walking by the side of his
              patron god Sharumma whose arm protectively encircles the king's
              shoulders.

              Trudy Kawami



              ________________________________

              From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              drbrucekgardner@...
              Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:57 AM
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] A new beginning



              Hi ANE2 Listers,

              What do listers make of the story of 'Enoch who walked with God' in
              Genesis
              5, in an ANE context? Do listers know of any references or ANE parallels
              on
              this that I could follow up?

              Thanks,

              Bruce Gardner
              Aberdeen Scotland UK.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • drbrucekgardner@aol.com
              In a message dated 16/02/2006 16:57:36 GMT Standard Time, tkawami@arthurmsacklerfdn.org writes: Bruce, I cannot give you a literary reference but there is a
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 16, 2006
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                In a message dated 16/02/2006 16:57:36 GMT Standard Time,
                tkawami@... writes:

                Bruce,

                I cannot give you a literary reference but there is a big visual one in
                the Hittite reliefs of Chamber B at Yazilikaya in central Anatolia where
                the Hittite king Tudhaliyas IV is shown walking by the side of his
                patron god Sharumma whose arm protectively encircles the king's
                shoulders.

                Trudy Kawami


                Dear Trudy,

                Thanks very much - I will certainly follow this one up.

                :-)

                Bruce Gardner
                Aberdeen Scotland UK


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ariel L. Szczupak
                ... Not only I don t insist on it, I m not really interested in biblical historicity per se (as the ANE1 archive can show while it s still there). My interest
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 16, 2006
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                  At 11:02 16/02/2006, victor avigdor hurowitz wrote:
                  >Woe Ariel, Ariel!

                  ... the city where snow once settled ... :(

                  >... if you insist on historicity ...

                  Not only I don't insist on it, I'm not really interested in biblical
                  historicity per se (as the ANE1 archive can show while it's still
                  there). My interest is in the methodology for establishing, or not,
                  the historicity of textual evidence in general. Biblical historicity
                  is just one case, but it is an "active" battlefield, one in which
                  accepted methodologies are determined by the scientific community,
                  and, continuing the analogy, NPL is one of the warlords ...

                  It was one of the first messages in the list and you quoted only DM's
                  snipped version, so maybe you didn't see the full message. I used
                  this example because it was handy, as something I was working on, for
                  illustrating four issues, not just the historicity issue, that I
                  think the moderators should consider. And possibly make guidelines
                  and policies to address them. Four issues that are at this euphoric
                  point theoretical, but judging from ANE1's history will become real
                  soon enough. A kind of "better brush your teeth now than have a root
                  canal job in the future" comment :)

                  So don't cry for me ANE2 arena, I have no intention of initiating a
                  biblical historicity thread.


                  Ariel.

                  [100% bona fide dilettante ... delecto ergo sum!]

                  ---
                  Ariel L. Szczupak
                  AMIS-JLM (Ricercar Ltd.)
                  POB 4707, Jerusalem, Israel 91401
                  Phone: +972-2-5619660 Fax: +972-2-5634203
                  ane.als@... http://amis-jlm.co.il
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