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Sanhedrin 4b

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  • Mata Kimasitayo
    טט בכתפי שתים פת באפריקי שתים (Sanhedrin 4b) Akiba is engaged here in phantastic etymologizing, deriving טטפת (sc.
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 22, 2013
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      טט בכתפי שתים פת באפריקי שתים (Sanhedrin 4b)

      Akiba is engaged here in phantastic etymologizing,
      deriving טטפת (sc. טוֹטָפוֹת) from פת + טט.

      Is כתפי Coptic, as Jastrow thought ? I don’t find טט
      as Coptic for “two” (though Jastrow identifies it as
      such) – and what is אפריקי ? It does not seem to be
      Ethiopian. In what language might פת mean two ?

      אפריקי has been thought to refer to Phrygia(n) but
      there is already פרוגתייא = Phrygia(n), why not use
      that ? Do we know anything about Phrygian words
      for numerals, in particular the number two ?

      The best hypothesis I have RE טט = “two” is the
      Fulani word "didi" mentioned by Heinrich Barth
      (Sammlung und Bearbeitung centralafrikanischer
      Vokabularien. 3 Abteilungen. Gotha 1862–1866,
      p 8) who explicitly connects this word (didi = two)
      with טט. As for פת I’ve nothing better than that this
      “word” somehow derives from Coptic bêta (see
      Crum p 27, maybe bêta > bt > פת).

      What could Akiba or his source have been thinking
      when he put טט = two, פת = two, finding these words
      in כתפי & אפריקי ?

      Many thanks in advance for any help.

      Mata Kimasitayo
      Bloomington Indiana
    • Yair Davidiy
      Shalom re the message of Mata Kimasitayo I could not read the non-English text. At all events, re the identification of Afriki: do Gobineau (Le Comte de
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 31, 2013
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        Shalom re the message of Mata Kimasitayo

        I could not read the non-English text.
        At all events, re
        the identification of Afriki: do Gobineau (Le
        Comte de GOBINEAU, "Histoire Des Perses", Paris 1869)
        says that Afriki was the name of a city sacred to the Medes.

        Others identified Afriki with an area in the
        Caucasus possibly Iberia (a province of Georgia).
        Zvi Casdoi, “The Tribes of Jacob and the
        Preserved of Israel” (Hebrew), Haifa, 1926,
        relates Totafot to words in Caucasian dialects.
        It is to be noted that Totafot also makes sense in Hebrew.
        The doubling of consonants (e.g. TT in totafot) usually implies an emphasis.
        In Hebrew we have the word-root ToFH connoting a
        swelling as found in words like Tofeh (swell up)
        and in the word TOF meaning a drum usually made of leather.
        Totafot may be derived from this root and connote
        empty leather cases as if the leather is swollen.
        Into these cases are inserted parchment with inscribed verses.
        This fulfills the commandment.
        "And they [these words] shall be for totafot
        between your eyes" (Exodus 13:16; Deuteronomy 6:8; Deuteronomy 11:18).

        Exodus 13:
        16 It shall be as a sign on your hand and as
        frontlets [Hebrew : totafot] between your eyes,
        for by strength of hand the Lord brought us out of Egypt.”

        Deuteronomy 6:
        8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and
        they shall be as frontlets [Hebrew : totafot] between your eyes.

        Deuteronomy 11:
        18 “Therefore you shall lay up these words of
        mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind
        them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as
        frontlets [Hebrew : totafot] between your eyes.

        Note: The etymology of Rabbi Akiva does not necessarily contradict the above.

        Yair Davidiy
        Independent Reearcher
        POB 595
        Jerusalem 91004
        Israel

        www.britam.org

        >
        At 10:07 PM 1/22/2013, Mata Kimasitayo <matakimasitayo@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        >
        >טט בכתפי שתים פת באפריקי שתים (Sanhedrin 4b)
        >
        >Akiba is engaged here in phantastic etymologizing,
        >deriving טטפת (sc. טוֹטָפוֹת) from פת + טט.
        >
        >Is כתפי Coptic, as Jastrow thought ? I don’t find טט
        >as Coptic for “two” (though Jastrow identifies it as
        >such) – and what is אפריקי ? It does not seem to be
        >Ethiopian. In what language might פת mean two ?
        >
        >אפריקי has been thought to refer to Phrygia(n) but
        >there is already פרוגתייא = Phrygia(n), why not use
        >that ? Do we know anything about Phrygian words
        >for numerals, in particular the number two ?
        >
        >The best hypothesis I have RE טט = “two” is the
        >Fulani word "didi" mentioned by Heinrich Barth
        >(Sammlung und Bearbeitung centralafrikanischer
        >Vokabularien. 3 Abteilungen. Gotha 1862–1866,
        >p 8) who explicitly connects this word (didi = two)
        >with טט. As for פת I’ve nothing better than that this
        >“word” somehow derives from Coptic bêta (see
        >Crum p 27, maybe bêta > bt > פת).
        >
        >What could Akiba or his source have been thinking
        >when he put טט = two, פת = two, finding these words
        >in כתפי & אפריקי ?
        >
        >Many thanks in advance for any help.
        >
        >Mata Kimasitayo
        >Bloomington Indiana
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