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Re: Various Hellenic Toponyms

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  • ehcline
    Mr. Smyth -- Your hypothesis is negated by the appearance of Keftiu on the Aegean List of Amenhotep III, where it is clearly associated with placenames from
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 6, 2013
      Mr. Smyth --

      Your hypothesis is negated by the appearance of Keftiu on the "Aegean List" of Amenhotep III, where it is clearly associated with placenames from the Aegean. Its location in the Aegean, rather than the Levant, during the Bronze Age is not debatable, contrary to your statements. I have published on this numerous times, if you need references, you need only ask; the most recent appears in the online Journal of Ancient Egyptian Interconnections. For additional occurrences of Keftiu and other references to the Aegean in New Kingdom Egypt, you and others will want to consult my book Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: International Trade and the Late Bronze Age Aegean, originally published in 1994 and reissued in 2009.


      Eric H. Cline

      --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Joachim Friedrich Quack wrote:
      > Am 05.01.2013 19:18, schrieb Jon Smyth:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thankyou for the Hau-nebu reference Dr. Quack, much appreciated.
      > >
      > > I do always find it interesting that when Keftiu and Asy have been
      > > enumerated in pharaonic conquest lists among such names as Naharin,
      > > Khatti, Ugarit and Kadesh, etc., it is felt necessary to look for
      > > arguments to try disassociate Keftiu and Asy from the group.
      > > Certainly, Thutmosis is not trying to claim conquest over the island
      > > of Crete.
      > >
      > > We do know that Keftiu was located circa. 4th century BCE on the
      > > Phoenecian coast. We also know that over the Lebanon mnts. to the
      > > east, runs the Asy(Isy) river, today called Orontes, and locally it
      > > still retains its ancient name. Keftiu & Asy were in close proximity
      > > to each other, as suggested in the list ascribed to Thutmosis III
      > > where he comes to conquer "the west", which was Amurru.
      > >
      > > As we know, Amurru was bordered on the west by the Med. and to the
      > > north and east by the curvature of the Orontes (Asy).
      > >
      > > I appreciate that you feel a unanimous conclusion can be reached but
      > > in the face of a complete lack of verification in the ancient world,
      > > any conclusion which attempts to remove Keftiu & Asy from Amurru must
      > > still be debatable.
      > >
      > > Kind regards, Jon Smyth
      > > Kitchener, Ont.
      > >
      > Dear Mr Smyth,
      > Please read the details in the articles I mentioned; and check the
      > totallity of attestations for kftiw a bit more in detail.
      > If an Egyptian sources speaks of the 'west' (as see from Egypt),
      > obviously it does not referr to the region of the Levant.
      > Which specific 'list' of Thutmosis III do you have in mind? If it is (as
      > I suspect) the 'poetic stele' (Urk. IV 616, 2), then you should really
      > check in more detail. The text is not a conquest list; it is a highly
      > poetic claim of universal awe before the pharaoh. It covers all regions
      > within reach of Egypt (e.g. also Libya). Keftiu and Isy are the only
      > toponyms indicated there for the 'West land'.
      > Yours,
      > Joachim Quack
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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