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Fieldiana Anthropology Online

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  • Charles E. Jones
    Fieldiana Anthropology: A Collection of Digitized Books Publications from the Chicago Field Museum s Fieldiana Anthropology series, digitized with permission
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 23, 2012
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      Fieldiana Anthropology: A Collection of Digitized Books

      Publications from the Chicago Field Museum's Fieldiana Anthropology series, digitized with permission of the Museum. The collection is a subset of the University of Illinois Digitized Books Collection.

      Titles relating to antiquity (old world) are linked at:
      http://ancientworldonline.blogspot.com/2012/12/fieldiana-anthropology-collection-of.html

      -Chuck Jones-
      ISAW - NYU
    • Amanda-Alice Maravelia
      Dear List: I am looking for Hellenic Toponyms, as many as possible, like e.g.: H3w-nbwt/Aegean, Kftjw/Crete, Tny/Rhodos, Mnws/Minos, & c. Is there any CORPUS
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 26, 2012
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        Dear List:

        I am looking for Hellenic Toponyms, as many as possible, like e.g.: H3w-nbwt/Aegean, Kftjw/Crete, Tny/Rhodos, Mnws/Minos,
        & c. Is there any CORPUS with them, referring also to where they are met, i.e.: in which anc. Egyptian texts or other sources
        or monuments (like for instance the Tomb of Rekhmire, and so on)? I would be very grateful for any answer off-list.

        Many thanks & Merry Christmas wishes,

        Dr Amanda-Alice Maravelia
        Hellenic Institute of Egyptology
        [ http://hiegaker.wordpress.com ]








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael F. Lane
        Dear all, Can any point me to some good summary sources on the origin and development of the god in the winged wheel motif, associated first (?) with Ashur and
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 28, 2012
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          Dear all,

          Can any point me to some good summary sources on the origin and
          development of the god in the winged wheel motif, associated first (?)
          with Ashur and eventually with Ahura Mazda?

          All best wishes for the holidays,

          Michael F. Lane
          Univ. of Maryland Baltimore County

          --
          Dr. Michael Franklin Lane
          Co-Director, AROURA
          Ancient Studies Department
          University of Maryland, Baltimore County
          Fine Arts Building, Room 452
          1000 Hilltop Circle
          Baltimore, MD 21250, USA
          Tel. +1-410-455-6265 / Fax +1-410-455-1660
          Skype: barrenador
          http://www.umbc.edu/aroura
        • Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
          See W. G. Lambert, Trees, Snakes and Gods in Ancient Syria and Anatolia ,/Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies//, University of London /48,
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 28, 2012
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            See W. G. Lambert, 'Trees, Snakes and Gods in Ancient Syria and
            Anatolia',/Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies//,
            University of London /48, 1985, pp. 435-451; T. Orman, 'A Complex System
            of Religous Symhols: The Case of the Winged Disc in Near Eastern Imagery
            of the First Millennium BCE', in C. E. Suter and C. Uehlinger (edd.),
            /Crafts and Images in Contact. Studies on Eastern Mediterranean Art of
            the First Millenium BCE /(Fribourg, Academic Press, 2005), pp. 207-241,
            especially 207-210; S.W. Holloway, /As(s(ur is King ! As(s(ur is King !
            Religion in the Exercise of Power in the Neo-Assyrian Empire/
            (Leiden-Boston-Ko"ln, Brill, 2002), pp. 66-67 ; M. A. Atac,, /The
            Mythology of Kingship in Neo-Assyrian Art/ (Cambridge, CU.P., 2011), pp.
            126-128 (overly speculative).

            I hope this will help you begin.

            J.-F. Nardelli
            Universite' de Provence.


            Le 28/12/2012 18:59, Michael F. Lane a e'crit :
            > Dear all,
            >
            > Can any point me to some good summary sources on the origin and
            > development of the god in the winged wheel motif, associated first (?)
            > with Ashur and eventually with Ahura Mazda?
            >
            > All best wishes for the holidays,
            >
            > Michael F. Lane
            > Univ. of Maryland Baltimore County
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jon Smyth
            Dear Dr. Maravelia. Those toponyms are both sourced and discussed in Caphtor/Keftiu, A New Investigation, John Strange, 1980. The names you identify all
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 28, 2012
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              Dear Dr. Maravelia.

              Those toponyms are both sourced and discussed in Caphtor/Keftiu, A New Investigation, John Strange, 1980.

              The names you identify all predate the Hellenic period (500-300 BCE).
              Before this period Hau Nebu is used in reference to coastal Syria, and Tinay has been linked with Adana as a possibility. And prior to 500 BCE Keftiu remains unidentifed, however, at the end of the Hellenic Period Crete is factually identified as Gerty/Kerty and Keftiu associated with the Phoenician coast.

              Jon Smyth
              Kitchener, ON. CAN


              --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Amanda-Alice Maravelia <a_maravelia@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Dear List:
              >
              > I am looking for Hellenic Toponyms, as many as possible, like e.g.: H3w-nbwt/Aegean, Kftjw/Crete, Tny/Rhodos, Mnws/Minos,
              > & c. Is there any CORPUS with them, referring also to where they are met, i.e.: in which anc. Egyptian texts or other sources
              > or monuments (like for instance the Tomb of Rekhmire, and so on)? I would be very grateful for any answer off-list.
              >
              > Many thanks & Merry Christmas wishes,
              >
              > Dr Amanda-Alice Maravelia
              > Hellenic Institute of Egyptology
              > [ http://hiegaker.wordpress.com ]
              >
            • Stewart Felker
              Have you consulted Paul Naster, “De la representation symbolique du dieu Assur aux premiers types monétaires acheménides,” in Compte rendu de
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 28, 2012
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                Have you consulted Paul Naster, �De la representation symbolique du dieu
                Assur aux premiers types mon�taires achem�nides,� in Compte rendu de
                l�onzi�me Rencontre assyriologique internationale (Leiden: Nederlands
                Instituut voor het Nabije Oosten, 1964)?


                Stewart Felker
                University of Memphis

                On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Michael F. Lane <mflane@...> wrote:

                > Dear all,
                >
                > Can any point me to some good summary sources on the origin and
                > development of the god in the winged wheel motif, associated first (?)
                > with Ashur and eventually with Ahura Mazda?
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stewart Felker
                There may also be some useful bibliographical info in Winford s _Aššur is King! Aššur is King!: Religion in the Exercise of Power in the Neo-Assyrian
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 28, 2012
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                  There may also be some useful bibliographical info in Winford's _Aššur is
                  King! Aššur is King!: Religion in the Exercise of Power in the Neo-Assyrian
                  Empire_ (p. 170, n. 298).


                  Stewart Felker


                  > On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Michael F. Lane <mflane@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> Dear all,
                  >>
                  >> Can any point me to some good summary sources on the origin and
                  >> development of the god in the winged wheel motif, associated first (?)
                  >> with Ashur and eventually with Ahura Mazda?
                  >>
                  >>


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Joachim Friedrich Quack
                  ... May I point out that there is a substantial discussion of the Hau-nebut in J.F. Quack, Das Problem der O#w-nb.wt, in: A. Luther, R. Rollinger, J.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 29, 2012
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                    Am 29.12.2012 00:20, schrieb Jon Smyth:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear Dr. Maravelia.
                    >
                    > Those toponyms are both sourced and discussed in Caphtor/Keftiu, A New
                    > Investigation, John Strange, 1980.
                    >
                    > The names you identify all predate the Hellenic period (500-300 BCE).
                    > Before this period Hau Nebu is used in reference to coastal Syria, and
                    > Tinay has been linked with Adana as a possibility. And prior to 500
                    > BCE Keftiu remains unidentifed, however, at the end of the Hellenic
                    > Period Crete is factually identified as Gerty/Kerty and Keftiu
                    > associated with the Phoenician coast.
                    >
                    > Jon Smyth
                    > Kitchener, ON. CAN
                    >
                    May I point out that there is a substantial discussion of the Hau-nebut
                    in J.F. Quack, Das Problem der O#w-nb.wt, in: A. Luther, R. Rollinger,
                    J. Wiesehöfer (Hrsg.), Getrennte Wege? Kommunikation, Raum und
                    Wahrnehmung in der Alten Welt, Oikumene 3 (Frankfurt 2007), 331-362.,
                    where the claim that in older times it refers to coastal Syria (or even
                    the northernmost regions of Egypt) is refuted. For Keftiu also, there
                    are more recent important discussions concluding quite unanimously that
                    in older periods it refers to Crete; I would like to mention my own in
                    /kft#w/und /|#Èy/, Ägypten und Levante 6 (1996), 75-81 (with further
                    references).

                    Joachim Quack
                    Ägyptologisches Institut, Universität heidelberg


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Michael F. Lane
                    Dear Stewart, Thanks for this and the other reference. I have read neither. I will read them now. Being a Mycenologist, they are a bit outside my area. Best,
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 29, 2012
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                      Dear Stewart,

                      Thanks for this and the other reference. I have read neither. I will read
                      them now. Being a Mycenologist, they are a bit outside my area.

                      Best,

                      Michael Lane
                      University of Maryland Baltimore County


                      > Have you consulted Paul Naster, “De la representation symbolique du dieu
                      > Assur aux premiers types monιtaires achemιnides,” in Compte rendu de
                      > l’onziθme Rencontre assyriologique internationale (Leiden: Nederlands
                      > Instituut voor het Nabije Oosten, 1964)?
                      >
                      >
                      > Stewart Felker
                      > University of Memphis
                      >
                      > On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Michael F. Lane <mflane@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Dear all,
                      >>
                      >> Can any point me to some good summary sources on the origin and
                      >> development of the god in the winged wheel motif, associated first (?)
                      >> with Ashur and eventually with Ahura Mazda?
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Jon Smyth
                      Thankyou for the Hau-nebu reference Dr. Quack, much appreciated. I do always find it interesting that when Keftiu and Asy have been enumerated in pharaonic
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 5, 2013
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                        Thankyou for the Hau-nebu reference Dr. Quack, much appreciated.

                        I do always find it interesting that when Keftiu and Asy have been enumerated in pharaonic conquest lists among such names as Naharin, Khatti, Ugarit and Kadesh, etc., it is felt necessary to look for arguments to try disassociate Keftiu and Asy from the group.
                        Certainly, Thutmosis is not trying to claim conquest over the island of Crete.

                        We do know that Keftiu was located circa. 4th century BCE on the Phoenecian coast. We also know that over the Lebanon mnts. to the east, runs the Asy(Isy) river, today called Orontes, and locally it still retains its ancient name. Keftiu & Asy were in close proximity to each other, as suggested in the list ascribed to Thutmosis III where he comes to conquer "the west", which was Amurru.

                        As we know, Amurru was bordered on the west by the Med. and to the north and east by the curvature of the Orontes (Asy).

                        I appreciate that you feel a unanimous conclusion can be reached but in the face of a complete lack of verification in the ancient world, any conclusion which attempts to remove Keftiu & Asy from Amurru must still be debatable.

                        Kind regards, Jon Smyth
                        Kitchener, Ont.



                        --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Joachim Friedrich Quack wrote:
                        >

                        > May I point out that there is a substantial discussion of the Hau-nebut
                        > in J.F. Quack, Das Problem der O#w-nb.wt, in: A. Luther, R. Rollinger,
                        > J. Wiesehöfer (Hrsg.), Getrennte Wege? Kommunikation, Raum und
                        > Wahrnehmung in der Alten Welt, Oikumene 3 (Frankfurt 2007), 331-362.,
                        > where the claim that in older times it refers to coastal Syria (or even
                        > the northernmost regions of Egypt) is refuted. For Keftiu also, there
                        > are more recent important discussions concluding quite unanimously that
                        > in older periods it refers to Crete; I would like to mention my own in
                        > /kft#w/und /|#Èy/, Ägypten und Levante 6 (1996), 75-81 (with further
                        > references).
                        >
                        > Joachim Quack
                        > Ägyptologisches Institut, Universität heidelberg
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Joachim Friedrich Quack
                        ... Dear Mr Smyth, Please read the details in the articles I mentioned; and check the totallity of attestations for kftiw a bit more in detail. If an Egyptian
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 6, 2013
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                          Am 05.01.2013 19:18, schrieb Jon Smyth:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thankyou for the Hau-nebu reference Dr. Quack, much appreciated.
                          >
                          > I do always find it interesting that when Keftiu and Asy have been
                          > enumerated in pharaonic conquest lists among such names as Naharin,
                          > Khatti, Ugarit and Kadesh, etc., it is felt necessary to look for
                          > arguments to try disassociate Keftiu and Asy from the group.
                          > Certainly, Thutmosis is not trying to claim conquest over the island
                          > of Crete.
                          >
                          > We do know that Keftiu was located circa. 4th century BCE on the
                          > Phoenecian coast. We also know that over the Lebanon mnts. to the
                          > east, runs the Asy(Isy) river, today called Orontes, and locally it
                          > still retains its ancient name. Keftiu & Asy were in close proximity
                          > to each other, as suggested in the list ascribed to Thutmosis III
                          > where he comes to conquer "the west", which was Amurru.
                          >
                          > As we know, Amurru was bordered on the west by the Med. and to the
                          > north and east by the curvature of the Orontes (Asy).
                          >
                          > I appreciate that you feel a unanimous conclusion can be reached but
                          > in the face of a complete lack of verification in the ancient world,
                          > any conclusion which attempts to remove Keftiu & Asy from Amurru must
                          > still be debatable.
                          >
                          > Kind regards, Jon Smyth
                          > Kitchener, Ont.
                          >
                          Dear Mr Smyth,

                          Please read the details in the articles I mentioned; and check the
                          totallity of attestations for kftiw a bit more in detail.
                          If an Egyptian sources speaks of the 'west' (as see from Egypt),
                          obviously it does not referr to the region of the Levant.
                          Which specific 'list' of Thutmosis III do you have in mind? If it is (as
                          I suspect) the 'poetic stele' (Urk. IV 616, 2), then you should really
                          check in more detail. The text is not a conquest list; it is a highly
                          poetic claim of universal awe before the pharaoh. It covers all regions
                          within reach of Egypt (e.g. also Libya). Keftiu and Isy are the only
                          toponyms indicated there for the 'West land'.

                          Yours,

                          Joachim Quack


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ehcline
                          Mr. Smyth -- Your hypothesis is negated by the appearance of Keftiu on the Aegean List of Amenhotep III, where it is clearly associated with placenames from
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 6, 2013
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                            Mr. Smyth --

                            Your hypothesis is negated by the appearance of Keftiu on the "Aegean List" of Amenhotep III, where it is clearly associated with placenames from the Aegean. Its location in the Aegean, rather than the Levant, during the Bronze Age is not debatable, contrary to your statements. I have published on this numerous times, if you need references, you need only ask; the most recent appears in the online Journal of Ancient Egyptian Interconnections. For additional occurrences of Keftiu and other references to the Aegean in New Kingdom Egypt, you and others will want to consult my book Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: International Trade and the Late Bronze Age Aegean, originally published in 1994 and reissued in 2009.

                            Cheers,

                            Eric H. Cline


                            --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, Joachim Friedrich Quack wrote:
                            >
                            > Am 05.01.2013 19:18, schrieb Jon Smyth:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Thankyou for the Hau-nebu reference Dr. Quack, much appreciated.
                            > >
                            > > I do always find it interesting that when Keftiu and Asy have been
                            > > enumerated in pharaonic conquest lists among such names as Naharin,
                            > > Khatti, Ugarit and Kadesh, etc., it is felt necessary to look for
                            > > arguments to try disassociate Keftiu and Asy from the group.
                            > > Certainly, Thutmosis is not trying to claim conquest over the island
                            > > of Crete.
                            > >
                            > > We do know that Keftiu was located circa. 4th century BCE on the
                            > > Phoenecian coast. We also know that over the Lebanon mnts. to the
                            > > east, runs the Asy(Isy) river, today called Orontes, and locally it
                            > > still retains its ancient name. Keftiu & Asy were in close proximity
                            > > to each other, as suggested in the list ascribed to Thutmosis III
                            > > where he comes to conquer "the west", which was Amurru.
                            > >
                            > > As we know, Amurru was bordered on the west by the Med. and to the
                            > > north and east by the curvature of the Orontes (Asy).
                            > >
                            > > I appreciate that you feel a unanimous conclusion can be reached but
                            > > in the face of a complete lack of verification in the ancient world,
                            > > any conclusion which attempts to remove Keftiu & Asy from Amurru must
                            > > still be debatable.
                            > >
                            > > Kind regards, Jon Smyth
                            > > Kitchener, Ont.
                            > >
                            > Dear Mr Smyth,
                            >
                            > Please read the details in the articles I mentioned; and check the
                            > totallity of attestations for kftiw a bit more in detail.
                            > If an Egyptian sources speaks of the 'west' (as see from Egypt),
                            > obviously it does not referr to the region of the Levant.
                            > Which specific 'list' of Thutmosis III do you have in mind? If it is (as
                            > I suspect) the 'poetic stele' (Urk. IV 616, 2), then you should really
                            > check in more detail. The text is not a conquest list; it is a highly
                            > poetic claim of universal awe before the pharaoh. It covers all regions
                            > within reach of Egypt (e.g. also Libya). Keftiu and Isy are the only
                            > toponyms indicated there for the 'West land'.
                            >
                            > Yours,
                            >
                            > Joachim Quack
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
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