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Question about lawgiving

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  • Yigal Levin
    Hello All, In the ANE, did kings who were considered to be lawgiviers (e.g. Hammurabi) usually claim that the laws were given to them by the gods, or did they
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 15, 2012
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      Hello All,



      In the ANE, did kings who were considered to be lawgiviers (e.g. Hammurabi)
      usually claim that the laws were given to them by the gods, or did they
      usually claim that the gods gave them the authority to make laws? Can anyone
      point me to literature on the subject?



      Thank you,





      Dr. Yigal Levin

      The Israel and Golda Koschitzky

      Department of Jewish History

      Bar-Ilan University

      Ramat Gan. 52900

      ISRAEL

      <mailto:Yigal.Levin@...> Yigal.Levin@...







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Greenberg
      The preamble to the Hammurabi laws will answer your question in relation to that set of laws. David Greenberg, Sociology Department, New York University ...
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 16, 2012
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        The preamble to the Hammurabi laws will answer your question in relation to
        that set of laws. David Greenberg, Sociology Department, New York University

        On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:17 AM, Yigal Levin <yigal.levin@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Hello All,
        >
        > In the ANE, did kings who were considered to be lawgiviers (e.g. Hammurabi)
        > usually claim that the laws were given to them by the gods, or did they
        > usually claim that the gods gave them the authority to make laws? Can
        > anyone
        > point me to literature on the subject?
        >
        > Thank you,
        >
        > Dr. Yigal Levin
        >
        > The Israel and Golda Koschitzky
        >
        > Department of Jewish History
        >
        > Bar-Ilan University
        >
        > Ramat Gan. 52900
        >
        > ISRAEL
        >
        > <mailto:Yigal.Levin@...> Yigal.Levin@...
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Simeon Chavel
        Yigal, In those royal texts, the king says the deities charged him with a variety of responsibilities and he fulfilled them. Those duties include doing
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 16, 2012
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          Yigal,
          In those royal texts, the king says the deities charged him with a variety of responsibilities and he fulfilled them. Those duties include doing justice, but the deities do not dictate the terms or transmit specific laws. Only in the HB does the deity dictate laws -- of course not to a king but to a prophet. Many have written on this comparison, from a variety of points of view, e.g. Greenberg, Paul, Weinfeld. At Bar Ilan, there is no reason not to consult colleagues in the Dept of Bible, e.g., Ed Greenstein.
          Simi
          ���������������������
          Simeon Chavel
          Assistant Professor of Hebrew Bible
          The University of Chicago Divinity School
          tel.: +1.773.702.6387
          AIM: simichavel / Skype: sbchavel
          http://divinity.uchicago.edu/faculty/chavel.shtml
          ���������������������

          On Aug 15, 2012, at 6:17 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

          > Hello All,
          >
          > In the ANE, did kings who were considered to be lawgiviers (e.g. Hammurabi)
          > usually claim that the laws were given to them by the gods, or did they
          > usually claim that the gods gave them the authority to make laws? Can anyone
          > point me to literature on the subject?
          >
          > Thank you,
          >
          > Dr. Yigal Levin
          >
          > The Israel and Golda Koschitzky
          >
          > Department of Jewish History
          >
          > Bar-Ilan University
          >
          > Ramat Gan. 52900
          >
          > ISRAEL
          >
          > <mailto:Yigal.Levin@...> Yigal.Levin@...
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Yigal Levin
          Dear Simi, Thanks for your reply. I wanted to get as wide a perspective as possible, and have received quite a few interesting and useful answers, mostly
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 16, 2012
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            Dear Simi,

            Thanks for your reply. I wanted to get as wide a perspective as possible,
            and have received quite a few interesting and useful answers, mostly
            off-list - and thanks to all who replied. Obviously I know who the people at
            Bar-Ilan who deal with these subjects are.

            Yigal Levin

            -----Original Message-----
            From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Simeon Chavel
            Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 8:35 AM
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Question about lawgiving

            Yigal,
            In those royal texts, the king says the deities charged him with a variety
            of responsibilities and he fulfilled them. Those duties include doing
            justice, but the deities do not dictate the terms or transmit specific laws.
            Only in the HB does the deity dictate laws -- of course not to a king but to
            a prophet. Many have written on this comparison, from a variety of points of
            view, e.g. Greenberg, Paul, Weinfeld. At Bar Ilan, there is no reason not to
            consult colleagues in the Dept of Bible, e.g., Ed Greenstein.
            Simi
            ---------------------
            Simeon Chavel
            Assistant Professor of Hebrew Bible
            The University of Chicago Divinity School
            tel.: +1.773.702.6387
            AIM: simichavel / Skype: sbchavel
            http://divinity.uchicago.edu/faculty/chavel.shtml
            ---------------------

            On Aug 15, 2012, at 6:17 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

            > Hello All,
            >
            > In the ANE, did kings who were considered to be lawgiviers (e.g.
            > Hammurabi) usually claim that the laws were given to them by the gods,
            > or did they usually claim that the gods gave them the authority to
            > make laws? Can anyone point me to literature on the subject?
            >
            > Thank you,
            >
            > Dr. Yigal Levin
            >
            > The Israel and Golda Koschitzky
            >
            > Department of Jewish History
            >
            > Bar-Ilan University
            >
            > Ramat Gan. 52900
            >
            > ISRAEL
            >
            > <mailto:Yigal.Levin@...> Yigal.Levin@...
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Simeon Chavel
            Gotcha. In that case, a few more titles: Hurowitz, Inu Anum Sirum Charpin, Hammurabi Charpin, Writing, Law etc. Finkelstein, The Ox That Gored Weinfeld,
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 17, 2012
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              Gotcha. In that case, a few more titles:
              Hurowitz, Inu Anum Sirum
              Charpin, Hammurabi
              Charpin, Writing, Law etc.
              Finkelstein, The Ox That Gored
              Weinfeld, משפט וצדקה
              Wright, Inventing God's Law
              and the chapter on biblical law in Talshir, ספרות המקרא: מבואות ומחקרים, vol. 1.
              —————————————————————
              Simeon Chavel
              Assistant Professor of Hebrew Bible
              The University of Chicago Divinity School
              tel.: +1.773.702.6387
              AIM: simichavel / Skype: sbchavel
              http://divinity.uchicago.edu/faculty/chavel.shtml
              —————————————————————

              On Aug 17, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

              > Dear Simi,
              >
              > Thanks for your reply. I wanted to get as wide a perspective as possible,
              > and have received quite a few interesting and useful answers, mostly
              > off-list - and thanks to all who replied. Obviously I know who the people at
              > Bar-Ilan who deal with these subjects are.
              >
              > Yigal Levin
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > Simeon Chavel
              > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 8:35 AM
              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Question about lawgiving
              >
              > Yigal,
              > In those royal texts, the king says the deities charged him with a variety
              > of responsibilities and he fulfilled them. Those duties include doing
              > justice, but the deities do not dictate the terms or transmit specific laws.
              > Only in the HB does the deity dictate laws -- of course not to a king but to
              > a prophet. Many have written on this comparison, from a variety of points of
              > view, e.g. Greenberg, Paul, Weinfeld. At Bar Ilan, there is no reason not to
              > consult colleagues in the Dept of Bible, e.g., Ed Greenstein.
              > Simi
              > ---------------------
              > Simeon Chavel
              > Assistant Professor of Hebrew Bible
              > The University of Chicago Divinity School
              > tel.: +1.773.702.6387
              > AIM: simichavel / Skype: sbchavel
              > http://divinity.uchicago.edu/faculty/chavel.shtml
              > ---------------------
              >
              > On Aug 15, 2012, at 6:17 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:
              >
              > > Hello All,
              > >
              > > In the ANE, did kings who were considered to be lawgiviers (e.g.
              > > Hammurabi) usually claim that the laws were given to them by the gods,
              > > or did they usually claim that the gods gave them the authority to
              > > make laws? Can anyone point me to literature on the subject?
              > >
              > > Thank you,
              > >
              > > Dr. Yigal Levin
              > >
              > > The Israel and Golda Koschitzky
              > >
              > > Department of Jewish History
              > >
              > > Bar-Ilan University
              > >
              > > Ramat Gan. 52900
              > >
              > > ISRAEL
              > >
              > > <mailto:Yigal.Levin@...> Yigal.Levin@...
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Simeon Chavel
              Btw, Yigal, in addition to Martha Roth s convenient edition of ANE law collections, Meir Malul now has one out in Hebrew (קובצי הדינים, הוצאת
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 17, 2012
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                Btw, Yigal, in addition to Martha Roth's convenient edition of ANE law collections, Meir Malul now has one out in Hebrew (קובצי הדינים, הוצאת פרדס, 2010).
                Simi
                —————————————————————
                Simeon Chavel
                Assistant Professor of Hebrew Bible
                The University of Chicago Divinity School
                tel.: +1.773.702.6387
                AIM: simichavel / Skype: sbchavel
                http://divinity.uchicago.edu/faculty/chavel.shtml
                —————————————————————

                On Aug 17, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

                > Dear Simi,
                >
                > Thanks for your reply. I wanted to get as wide a perspective as possible,
                > and have received quite a few interesting and useful answers, mostly
                > off-list - and thanks to all who replied. Obviously I know who the people at
                > Bar-Ilan who deal with these subjects are.
                >
                > Yigal Levin
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > Simeon Chavel
                > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 8:35 AM
                > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Question about lawgiving
                >
                > Yigal,
                > In those royal texts, the king says the deities charged him with a variety
                > of responsibilities and he fulfilled them. Those duties include doing
                > justice, but the deities do not dictate the terms or transmit specific laws.
                > Only in the HB does the deity dictate laws -- of course not to a king but to
                > a prophet. Many have written on this comparison, from a variety of points of
                > view, e.g. Greenberg, Paul, Weinfeld. At Bar Ilan, there is no reason not to
                > consult colleagues in the Dept of Bible, e.g., Ed Greenstein.
                > Simi
                > ---------------------
                > Simeon Chavel
                > Assistant Professor of Hebrew Bible
                > The University of Chicago Divinity School
                > tel.: +1.773.702.6387
                > AIM: simichavel / Skype: sbchavel
                > http://divinity.uchicago.edu/faculty/chavel.shtml
                > ---------------------
                >
                > On Aug 15, 2012, at 6:17 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:
                >
                > > Hello All,
                > >
                > > In the ANE, did kings who were considered to be lawgiviers (e.g.
                > > Hammurabi) usually claim that the laws were given to them by the gods,
                > > or did they usually claim that the gods gave them the authority to
                > > make laws? Can anyone point me to literature on the subject?
                > >
                > > Thank you,
                > >
                > > Dr. Yigal Levin
                > >
                > > The Israel and Golda Koschitzky
                > >
                > > Department of Jewish History
                > >
                > > Bar-Ilan University
                > >
                > > Ramat Gan. 52900
                > >
                > > ISRAEL
                > >
                > > <mailto:Yigal.Levin@...> Yigal.Levin@...
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Graham Hagens
                Keeping the perspective wide might also involve addressing the more complex question of the influence of  the Zoroastrian oral traditions on  Persian civic
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 20, 2012
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                  Keeping the perspective wide might also involve addressing the more complex question of the influence of  the Zoroastrian oral traditions on  Persian civic law.  The Zoroastrian religious laws which so influenced Judeo-Christianity were of course believed to have been dictated  to  Zoroaster by one of  Ahura Mazda's messengers,  Vohu Mana. 
                   
                  Graham Hagens
                  Hamilton, ON


                  ________________________________
                  From: Yigal Levin <yigal.levin@...>
                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:36 AM
                  Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Question about lawgiving


                   
                  Dear Simi,

                  Thanks for your reply. I wanted to get as wide a perspective as possible,
                  and have received quite a few interesting and useful answers, mostly
                  off-list - and thanks to all who replied. Obviously I know who the people at
                  Bar-Ilan who deal with these subjects are.

                  Yigal Levin

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Simeon Chavel
                  Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 8:35 AM
                  To: mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Question about lawgiving

                  Yigal,
                  In those royal texts, the king says the deities charged him with a variety
                  of responsibilities and he fulfilled them. Those duties include doing
                  justice, but the deities do not dictate the terms or transmit specific laws.
                  Only in the HB does the deity dictate laws -- of course not to a king but to
                  a prophet. Many have written on this comparison, from a variety of points of
                  view, e.g. Greenberg, Paul, Weinfeld. At Bar Ilan, there is no reason not to
                  consult colleagues in the Dept of Bible, e.g., Ed Greenstein.
                  Simi
                  ---------------------
                  Simeon Chavel
                  Assistant Professor of Hebrew Bible
                  The University of Chicago Divinity School
                  tel.: +1.773.702.6387
                  AIM: simichavel / Skype: sbchavel
                  http://divinity.uchicago.edu/faculty/chavel.shtml
                  ---------------------

                  On Aug 15, 2012, at 6:17 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

                  > Hello All,
                  >
                  > In the ANE, did kings who were considered to be lawgiviers (e.g.
                  > Hammurabi) usually claim that the laws were given to them by the gods,
                  > or did they usually claim that the gods gave them the authority to
                  > make laws? Can anyone point me to literature on the subject?
                  >
                  > Thank you,
                  >
                  > Dr. Yigal Levin
                  >
                  > The Israel and Golda Koschitzky
                  >
                  > Department of Jewish History
                  >
                  > Bar-Ilan University
                  >
                  > Ramat Gan. 52900
                  >
                  > ISRAEL
                  >
                  > <mailto:mailto:Yigal.Levin%40biu.ac.il> mailto:Yigal.Levin%40biu.ac.il
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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