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RE: [ANE-2] Locusts on the menu

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  • Lisbeth S. Fried
    I was wondering if the first two legs were considered arms. Don t they use these to clean themselves? But what do I know? Liz Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 2, 2012
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      I was wondering if the first two legs were considered arms.
      Don't they use these to clean themselves?
      But what do I know?
      Liz


      Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.
      Department of Near Eastern Studies
      and the Frankel Center for Judaic Studies
      University of Michigan
      202 S. Thayer -- Room 4111
      Ann Arbor, MI 48104
      www.lisbethfried.com <http://www.lisbethfried.com/>

      I sent (too much) rain on one city, and sent no rain on another city; and
      still you did not return to me, says YHWH. (Amo 4:7-8 )





      _____

      From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      Peter T. Daniels
      Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 7:47 AM
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Locusts on the menu




      It's a literal rendition of the Hebrew. Obviously, an idiom in the original
      that became an idiom in English.

      Do you suppose the typical hearer/reader would immediately grasp the sense
      of "goes on all sixes"?
      --
      Peter T. Daniels grammatim@... <mailto:grammatim%40verizon.net>
      Jersey City

      >________________________________
      > From: Bradley Skene <anebo10@... <mailto:anebo10%40gmail.com> >
      >To: ane-2 <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> >
      >Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2012 12:56 PM
      >Subject: [ANE-2] Locusts on the menu
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Is there something seriously wrong with this translation? If not, how could
      >the author have thought insects have 4 legs?
      >
      >Lev. 11:
      >
      >[*20*]"All winged insects that go upon all fours are an abomination to you.
      >[*21*] Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those
      >which have legs above their feet, with which to leap on the earth.
      >[*22*] Of them you may eat: the locust according to its kind, the bald
      >locust according to its kind, the cricket according to its kind, and the
      >grasshopper according to its kind.
      >[*23*] But all other winged insects which have four feet are an abomination
      >to you.
      >
      >Cheers,
      >
      >Bradley A. Skene
      >unaffiliated

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jgibson
      ... In the FWIW department, here s the discussion on the matter by J.E. Hartley in his commentary on Leviticus (Word Biblical Commentary (2002) p. 160. Almost
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 2, 2012
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        On 4/2/2012 11:40 AM, Lisbeth S. Fried wrote:
        > I was wondering if the first two legs were considered arms.
        > Don't they use these to clean themselves?
        > But what do I know?
        > Liz
        In the FWIW department, here's the discussion on the matter by J.E.
        Hartley in his commentary on Leviticus (Word Biblical Commentary (2002)
        p. 160.


        Almost all small land animals are classified as unclean. The phrase
        ???? ??-????, "go on all fours," is an expression for darting about.
        E. Fink (RÉJ 63 [1912] 122--23) takes feet (?????) in v 23 as a
        dual, meaning four pairs of legs. He accounts for the four pairs by
        including the antennae every insect has as numbered with the feet.
        Unfortunately Fink's explanation does not help very much with the
        phrase "go on all four" in v 20. For clarity in the English
        translation this phrase is rendered "dart about." Four locusts are
        named as exceptions to flying insects' being unclean. They are clean
        because they have a pair of larger, jointed legs for hopping.
        According to Douglas (Purity, 66), their hopping action along with
        their ability to fly makes them comparable to birds; thus their
        movement is appropriate to the sphere in which they live.
        Milgrom ("Ethics and Ritual," 189), however, finds her explanation
        wanting since locusts may "walk" as well as hop; he proposes that
        their classification as edible is an exception in deference to the
        ancient pastorals' fondness for this food.

        and by Péter-Contesse & Ellington in A handbook on Leviticus. UBS
        handbooks; Helps for translating (1992 )

        That go upon all fours: this expression is surprising, since the
        ancient Jews almost certainly knew that winged insects had six legs.
        The expression was probably used in a nonliteral sense, meaning "to
        crawl," and was used of any flying creature with more than two legs,
        to distinguish the insects from other flying creatures such as the
        birds just mentioned in the previous verses. tev has avoided the
        problem altogether, and other modern versions have omitted the
        number "four." frcl, for example, has "insects which have wings and
        legs." In other languages the idea may possibly be rendered "with
        more than two legs."

        .Jeffrey


        --
        ---
        Jeffrey B. Gibson D.Phil. Oxon.
        1500 W. Pratt Blvd
        Chicago, Il.
        jgibson000@...



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