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Chicago Tribune Feature of the New Exhibit at the Oriental Institute

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  • fdscalf
    Can you trust her? At Oriental Institute, questioning images we make of ancient times by Steve Johnson Chicago Tribune, March 8, 2012
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 8, 2012
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      "Can you trust her? At Oriental Institute, questioning images we make of ancient times" by Steve Johnson
      Chicago Tribune, March 8, 2012
      http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-ent-0308-museums-oriental-institute-20120307,0,1821287.column

      (Posted by Foy Scalf, Head of Research Archives, Oriental Institute, scalffd@...)
    • Douglas Petrovich
      Dear Listers, Does anyone have a specialty in ancient dooring? If so, I have a question for you. I am translating an Egyptian text from the reign of Thutmose
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 10, 2012
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        Dear Listers,

        Does anyone have a specialty in ancient dooring? If so, I have a question for you. I am translating an Egyptian text from the reign of Thutmose III (mid-18th-Dynasty), and I hit an interesting dilemma (though a purely tangential one, to be sure).

        The text speaks of the reconstruction that Thutmose III ordered on the Temple of Ptah at Karnak, which had fallen into disrepair since its original construction during the reign of Thutmose I.

        During this project, Thutmose III “erected for it doors consisting in new cedar from the best terraced-hillsides”, and then it says that the doors were “something’d with Asiatic copper.” Breasted goes with “mounted”, but this word is somewhat deceptive, because it could imply the process of installing the door (i.e. metal barring used for leverage, to put the door into place).
        So, this is not the best option, at least in my mind. Faulkner goes with “banded”, but this seems to be suspect. How do we know that bands merely were added to the wood, as if dispersed intermittently throughout the course of the door?

        A couple hundred years later, the Egyptian word was used for “woven”, as if to imply the joining of 2 separate items together. So, I am inclined to think that the best best may be to go with “bonded”, which would allow for banding, but also would allow for plating, which is a distinct possibility given that at this heightened time of Egypt’s international warfare, a defensive mindset may have warranted plated doors, which would be far more defensible than doors with exposed wood.

        Obviously we are talking about a religious temple, not a fortification, but this scenario still is not outside the realm of possibility. Nubians were always a threat, which certainly was realized during the subsequent reigns of Amenhotep II and Thutmose IV.
        Anyway, I am curious if anyone has insight on this, or if there are any helpful images of doors of which anyone is aware.
        With gratitude in advance,

        Doug Petrovich
        Toronto, Canada

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Geoffrey Summers
        Dear Douglas, The place for you to start is with the Neo-Assyrian Balawat gates. The display in the British Museum includes a full scale reproduction. Yours,
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 10, 2012
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          Dear Douglas,

          The place for you to start is with the Neo-Assyrian Balawat gates. The
          display in the British Museum includes a full scale reproduction.

          Yours,

          Geoff

          On 11/03/2012 04:50, Douglas Petrovich wrote:
          > Dear Listers,
          >
          > Does anyone have a specialty in ancient dooring? If so, I have a question for you. I am translating an Egyptian text from the reign of Thutmose III (mid-18th-Dynasty), and I hit an interesting dilemma (though a purely tangential one, to be sure).
          >
          > The text speaks of the reconstruction that Thutmose III ordered on the Temple of Ptah at Karnak, which had fallen into disrepair since its original construction during the reign of Thutmose I.
          >
          > During this project, Thutmose III “erected for it doors consisting in new cedar from the best terraced-hillsides�, and then it says that the doors were “something’d with Asiatic copper.� Breasted goes with “mounted�, but this word is somewhat deceptive, because it could imply the process of installing the door (i.e. metal barring used for leverage, to put the door into place).
          > So, this is not the best option, at least in my mind. Faulkner goes with “banded�, but this seems to be suspect. How do we know that bands merely were added to the wood, as if dispersed intermittently throughout the course of the door?
          >
          > A couple hundred years later, the Egyptian word was used for “woven�, as if to imply the joining of 2 separate items together. So, I am inclined to think that the best best may be to go with “bonded�, which would allow for banding, but also would allow for plating, which is a distinct possibility given that at this heightened time of Egypt’s international warfare, a defensive mindset may have warranted plated doors, which would be far more defensible than doors with exposed wood.
          >
          > Obviously we are talking about a religious temple, not a fortification, but this scenario still is not outside the realm of possibility. Nubians were always a threat, which certainly was realized during the subsequent reigns of Amenhotep II and Thutmose IV.
          > Anyway, I am curious if anyone has insight on this, or if there are any helpful images of doors of which anyone is aware.
          > With gratitude in advance,
          >
          > Doug Petrovich
          > Toronto, Canada
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          --
          Geoffrey SUMMERS
          Settlement Archaeology Graduate Program
          Institute of Social Sciences
          Middle East Technical University
          Ankara TR-06531, TURKEY.

          Office Tel: (90) 312 210 6213
          Home Tel/Fax: (90) 312 210 1485
          The Kerkenes Project Tel: (90) 312 210 6216
          http://www.kerkenes.metu.edu.tr
        • Chris Conlan
          Take a look at the Assyrian doors from Balawat. Christopher Conlan Jerusalem Sent from my iPad ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 10, 2012
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            Take a look at the Assyrian doors from Balawat.

            Christopher Conlan
            Jerusalem

            Sent from my iPad

            On Mar 11, 2012, at 4:50 AM, "Douglas Petrovich" <dp@...> wrote:

            > Dear Listers,
            >
            > Does anyone have a specialty in ancient dooring? If so, I have a question for you. I am translating an Egyptian text from the reign of Thutmose III (mid-18th-Dynasty), and I hit an interesting dilemma (though a purely tangential one, to be sure).
            >
            > The text speaks of the reconstruction that Thutmose III ordered on the Temple of Ptah at Karnak, which had fallen into disrepair since its original construction during the reign of Thutmose I.
            >
            > During this project, Thutmose III “erected for it doors consisting in new cedar from the best terraced-hillsides”, and then it says that the doors were “something’d with Asiatic copper.” Breasted goes with “mounted”, but this word is somewhat deceptive, because it could imply the process of installing the door (i.e. metal barring used for leverage, to put the door into place).
            > So, this is not the best option, at least in my mind. Faulkner goes with “banded”, but this seems to be suspect. How do we know that bands merely were added to the wood, as if dispersed intermittently throughout the course of the door?
            >
            > A couple hundred years later, the Egyptian word was used for “woven”, as if to imply the joining of 2 separate items together. So, I am inclined to think that the best best may be to go with “bonded”, which would allow for banding, but also would allow for plating, which is a distinct possibility given that at this heightened time of Egypt’s international warfare, a defensive mindset may have warranted plated doors, which would be far more defensible than doors with exposed wood.
            >
            > Obviously we are talking about a religious temple, not a fortification, but this scenario still is not outside the realm of possibility. Nubians were always a threat, which certainly was realized during the subsequent reigns of Amenhotep II and Thutmose IV.
            > Anyway, I am curious if anyone has insight on this, or if there are any helpful images of doors of which anyone is aware.
            > With gratitude in advance,
            >
            > Doug Petrovich
            > Toronto, Canada
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • aren
            As to doors with plating, I suggest looking at the remains of the bronze plating with Rameses III s name from Lachish. Check the Lachish report by Ussishkin.
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 11, 2012
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              As to doors with plating, I suggest looking at the remains of the bronze plating with Rameses III's name from Lachish. Check the Lachish report by Ussishkin.

              Aren Maeir
              gath.wordpress.com
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