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Re: [ANE-2] "tempio poliadico"?

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  • Peter T. Daniels
    Thank you for three quick responses -- the (lack of) context is as follows (I didn t want to admit on ANE List that it s Etruscan rather than Near Eastern):  
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 4, 2012
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      Thank you for three quick responses -- the (lack of) context is as follows (I didn't want to admit on ANE List that it's Etruscan rather than Near Eastern):
       
      Tarquinia, che è forse la
      capitale di questo diffuso clima di nostalgia etrusca, non solo recupera il
      titolo di civitas foederata a ricordo
      della passata autonomia e dell’antico foedus stipulato con Roma nel 281 a.C., ma diventa addirittura, come vedremo, il
      teatro, attorno all’antico tempio poliadico dell’Ara della Regina, di una
      grande mise-en-scène delle glorie
      passate della città e delle sue famiglie;
       
      Admittedly the Italian word could be ambiguous between a 'city' word (polis) and a 'many' word (poly-), but the English word "polyadic" isn't: it only means 'group of three or more' (in mathematical contexts).
       
      --
      Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...


      >________________________________
      > From: Peter T. Daniels <grammatim@...>
      >To: ANE-2 list <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
      >Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 11:15 AM
      >Subject: [ANE-2] "tempio poliadico"?
      >
      >
      >

      >
      >I am translating an article from Italian, and it refers to a "tempio poliadico." The only "definition" found anywhere is 'polyadic'. The only use of this word in English outside mathematics is in Wilfred Watson's translation of an Italian book on Dagan, which has many references to "polyadic gods" but no hint of what is meant. "Poliadico" occurs with "tempio" and "santuario" in Italian.
      >
      >I'm wondering whether it perhaps means 'syncretic', but that doesn't help with how to render it in reference to a temple.
      >
      >--
      >Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
      >Jersey City
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Peter T. Daniels
      Interesting. Did this come from the OED website? Note the scanning error Life Shelby that obviously should be Life Shelley, followed by a quite garbled
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 4, 2012
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        Interesting. Did this come from the OED website? Note the scanning error "Life Shelby" that obviously should be "Life Shelley," followed by a quite garbled reference.

        Well, I can't use a term invented by Shelley that somehow didn't catch on ... we could say "tutelary deity" of a city, but we can't say "tutelary temple"!

        --
        Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
        Jersey City


        >________________________________
        > From: Giuseppe Del Monte <gdelmonte@...>
        >To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 2:11 PM
        >Subject: Re: [ANE-2] "tempio poliadico"?
        >
        >
        >

        >
        >
        >From the NED vol. VII O, P, Oxford 1909 p.1069:
        >
        >Poliad (pp'liad). nonce-wd. [f. Gr. Polias city + j
        >-AD i b, after OREAD, etc.] A city nymph.
        >1818 SHELLEY Let. to Peacock 16 Aug., Pray, are you yet .
        >cured of your Nympholepsy? 'Tis a sweet disease : but one
        >as obstinate and dangerous as any even when the Nymph
        >is a Poliad. 1887 DOWDEN Life Shelby II. v. i88ft0fr,Tnu
        >poem [in Leigh Hunt's 'Foliage '], with its Oreads, Napeads,
        >Limniads, Nepheliads, probably suggested to Shelley the
        >word ' Poliad ', a city nymph.
        >
        >Poliadic(p?li|3e'dik), a. rare. [f. Gr. Polias,
        >-ad- (female) guardian of the city, epithet of Athene ;
        >as tutelary goddess of Athens (f. polis city) + -ic.] ,
        >Of the nature of a tutelary deity of a city or state,
        >1886 E. B. BAX Relig. Socialism App. vii. 174 The poliadic
        >or state divinity Yahveh being erected into the supernatural
        >god of the universe.
        >
        >Giuseppe Del Monte
        >
        >At 17.15 04/02/2012, you wrote:
        >>I am translating an article from Italian, and it refers to a "tempio
        >>poliadico." The only "definition" found anywhere is 'polyadic'. The only
        >>use of this word in English outside mathematics is in Wilfred Watson's
        >>translation of an Italian book on Dagan, which has many references to
        >>"polyadic gods" but no hint of what is meant. "Poliadico" occurs with
        >>"tempio" and "santuario" in Italian.
        >>
        >>I'm wondering whether it perhaps means 'syncretic', but that doesn't help
        >>with how to render it in reference to a temple.
        >>
        >>--
        >>Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
        >>Jersey City
        >
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      • George Athas
        Isn t it the concept of a god attached to a particular city, such as Yahweh of Samaria and Yahweh of Jerusalem ? GEORGE ATHAS Director of Postgraduate
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 5, 2012
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          Isn't it the concept of a god attached to a particular city, such as 'Yahweh of Samaria' and 'Yahweh of Jerusalem'?


          GEORGE ATHAS
          Director of Postgraduate Studies,
          Moore Theological College (moore.edu.au)
          Sydney, Australia


          From: "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...<mailto:grammatim@...>>
          Reply-To: ANE-2 <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>>
          Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2012 08:15:30 -0800
          To: ANE-2 <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>>
          Subject: [ANE-2] "tempio poliadico"?



          I am translating an article from Italian, and it refers to a "tempio poliadico." The only "definition" found anywhere is 'polyadic'. The only use of this word in English outside mathematics is in Wilfred Watson's translation of an Italian book on Dagan, which has many references to "polyadic gods" but no hint of what is meant. "Poliadico" occurs with "tempio" and "santuario" in Italian.

          I'm wondering whether it perhaps means 'syncretic', but that doesn't help with how to render it in reference to a temple.

          --
          Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...<mailto:grammatim%40verizon.net>
          Jersey City




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Giuseppe Del Monte
          At 21.13 04/02/2012, Peter T. Daniels wrote: Interesting. Did this come from the OED website? Note the scanning error ... I have downloaded the NED from the
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 5, 2012
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            At 21.13 04/02/2012, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
            >Interesting. Did this come from the OED website? Note the scanning error
            >"Life Shelby" that obviously should be "Life Shelley," followed by a quite
            >garbled reference.
            >Well, I can't use a term invented by Shelley that somehow didn't catch on
            >... we could say "tutelary deity" of a city, but we can't say "tutelary
            >temple"!
            >--
            >Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
            >Jersey City

            I have downloaded the NED from the Internet Archive, <www.archive.org/>.
            The original is at the Toronto University Library. It was tiring (16 files,
            3 GB), but in the end I have this work at hand on my hard disk, and it was
            worth the effort.

            Giuseppe Del Monte



            Prof. Giuseppe del Monte
            Professore Ordinario di
            Storia del Vicino Oriente antico
            Dpt. Scienze storiche del mondo antico
            Università di Pisa
            via Galvani 1 - I-56100 Pisa
            Fax 39-050-500668 - E-mail <gdelmonte@...>



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          • pppmerlo
            Dear Peter, the Italian adjective poliade is better than poliadico in this context. Anyway, this is the Treccani s definition of poliade : polìade (1)
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 7, 2012
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              Dear Peter,

              the Italian adjective "poliade" is better than "poliadico" in this context.
              Anyway, this is the Treccani's definition of "poliade":

              polìade (1) agg. [dal gr. πολιάς -άδος agg. femm. (der. di πόλις «città»), «protettrice della città», soprattutto come epiteto della dea Atena]. – Nella storia delle religioni, di divinità, o relativo a divinità, che abbia un legame particolare e più stretto con una città piuttosto che con altre, figurando come sua speciale protettrice o rappresentante e perciò da essa venerata con un culto particolarmente importante e solenne: un dio p.; divinità con funzioni p.; culto poliade.

              Source: http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/poliade1/


              Best wishes,
              Paolo Merlo
              Rome




              --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am translating an article from Italian, and it refers to a "tempio poliadico." The only "definition" found anywhere is 'polyadic'. The only use of this word in English outside mathematics is in Wilfred Watson's translation of an Italian book on Dagan, which has many references to "polyadic gods" but no hint of what is meant. "Poliadico" occurs with "tempio" and "santuario" in Italian.
              >
              > I'm wondering whether it perhaps means 'syncretic', but that doesn't help with how to render it in reference to a temple.
              >
              > --
              > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
              > Jersey City
              >
            • Peter T. Daniels
              Thank you ... but as you have seen from the quotation, what my author wrote was poliadico, and it refers not to Athena, but to the temple of the Ara della
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 7, 2012
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                Thank you ... but as you have seen from the quotation, what my author wrote was "poliadico," and it refers not to Athena, but to the temple of the Ara della Regina; and in this definition, it is associated with dio, divino, and culto, but not tempio; and finally, there is evidently no corresponding word in English! 
                --
                Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                Jersey City


                >________________________________
                > From: pppmerlo <paolo_merlo@...>
                >To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 7:58 AM
                >Subject: [ANE-2] Re: "tempio poliadico"?
                >
                >
                >

                >Dear Peter,
                >
                >the Italian adjective "poliade" is better than "poliadico" in this context.
                >Anyway, this is the Treccani's definition of "poliade":
                >
                >polìade (1) agg. [dal gr. πολιάς -άδος agg. femm. (der. di πόλις «città»), «protettrice della città», soprattutto come epiteto della dea Atena]. – Nella storia delle religioni, di divinità, o relativo a divinità, che abbia un legame particolare e più stretto con una città piuttosto che con altre, figurando come sua speciale protettrice o rappresentante e perciò da essa venerata con un culto particolarmente importante e solenne: un dio p.; divinità con funzioni p.; culto poliade.
                >
                >Source: http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/poliade1/
                >
                >Best wishes,
                >Paolo Merlo
                >Rome
                >
                >--- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> I am translating an article from Italian, and it refers to a "tempio poliadico." The only "definition" found anywhere is 'polyadic'. The only use of this word in English outside mathematics is in Wilfred Watson's translation of an Italian book on Dagan, which has many references to "polyadic gods" but no hint of what is meant. "Poliadico" occurs with "tempio" and "santuario" in Italian.
                >>
                >> I'm wondering whether it perhaps means 'syncretic', but that doesn't help with how to render it in reference to a temple.
                >>
                >> --
                >> Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                >> Jersey City

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Steve Farmer
                ... As already noted by several others on the list, the words poliadico and poliade are cognate and are often used equivalently -- in reference to gods,
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 7, 2012
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                  On Feb 7, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

                  > Thank you ... but as you have seen from the quotation, what my author wrote was "poliadico," and it refers not to Athena, but to the temple of the Ara della Regina; and in this definition, it is associated with dio, divino, and culto, but not tempio; and finally, there is evidently no corresponding word in English!
                  > --
                  > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                  > Jersey City

                  As already noted by several others on the list, the words 'poliadico' and 'poliade' are cognate and are often used equivalently -- in reference to gods, temples, sanctuaries, whatever. Many examples can be shown from hundreds of sources in scholarly and popular sources. A "dio poliadico" or "dio poliade" is a city's protector deity, and a "tempio poliadico" or "tempio poliade" is the temple of such a deity. There may be no exact equivalent in English, but its meaning in Italian is not obscure.

                  If you want examples in ANE, even from popular sources, see

                  http://www.sapere.it/enciclopedia/b%c3%aal.html

                  > Marduk, dio poliade della città di Babele....

                  On equivalences between 'poliadico' and 'poliade', see again below. Your original suggestion (see also infra) that the term has something to do with "syncretic" is erroneous.

                  Steve Farmer
                  Palo Alto, Ca

                  Steve Farmer wrote:

                  > 'Poliadico' is cognate with 'poliade,' and 'tempio poliadico' or 'tempio poliade' refer to the temple of a god protecting a city.
                  >
                  > See e.g. this web discussion, where the author discusses the possible interpretations of a temple dedicated to Apollo in Pompei:
                  >
                  > http://spazioinwind.libero.it/popoli_antichi/altro/pompei-apollo.html
                  >
                  >> Sono due le ipotesi possibili: o Apollo era il dio poliadico, cioè il protettore per eccellenza della città, oppure era il dio che proteggeva le attività commerciali, da sempre fonte di sostentamento e di ricchezza per gli abitanti di Pompei.
                  >
                  > There are also many references on the web to one or another "tempio poliade," e.g. here:
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl.com/84fvjr4
                  >
                  > A French Wikipedia article gives a more direct definition:
                  >
                  > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliade
                  >
                  >> Poliade est un adjectif provenant de la racine grecque polis « cité ».
                  >
                  >> En théologie, une divinité poliade est une divinité qui protège une cité qui lui rend un culte spécifique. Dans la Grèce antique, chaque cité possédait une ou plusieurs divinités protectrices. Ainsi Athènes était-elle protégée par Athéna, Sparte par Athéna et Artémis, Éphèse par Artémis, Argos par Héra, etc.
                  >
                  >
                  > S. Farmer
                  > Palo Alto, California
                  >
                  > On Feb 4, 2012, at 8:15 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
                  >
                  >> I am translating an article from Italian, and it refers to a "tempio poliadico." The only "definition" found anywhere is 'polyadic'. The only use of this word in English outside mathematics is in Wilfred Watson's translation of an Italian book on Dagan, which has many references to "polyadic gods" but no hint of what is meant. "Poliadico" occurs with "tempio" and "santuario" in Italian.
                  >>
                  >> I'm wondering whether it perhaps means 'syncretic', but that doesn't help with how to render it in reference to a temple.
                  >>
                  >> --
                  >> Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                • Peter T. Daniels
                  I am not questioning the Italian meaning. I am looking for a way to translate tempio poliadico into English, and polyadic is entirely out of the question,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 7, 2012
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                    I am not questioning the Italian meaning. I am looking for a way to translate "tempio poliadico" into English, and "polyadic" is entirely out of the question, both because it is spelled with <y> and not <i> and because (with the one exception of a translation from Italian, where it goes unexplained) it does not have the relevant meaning -- it is a faux ami, and an accidental one (simply because Italian renders both Gk. poly- and Gk. poli- as <poli->).
                     
                    And unless some messages have failed to reach me, no one has offered any other example of "tempio poliade/ico."
                    --
                    Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                    Jersey City


                    >________________________________
                    > From: Steve Farmer <saf@...>
                    >To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                    >Cc: Steve Farmer <saf@...>
                    >Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 12:49 PM
                    >Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: "tempio poliadico"?
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    >
                    >
                    >On Feb 7, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
                    >
                    >> Thank you ... but as you have seen from the quotation, what my author wrote was "poliadico," and it refers not to Athena, but to the temple of the Ara della Regina; and in this definition, it is associated with dio, divino, and culto, but not tempio; and finally, there is evidently no corresponding word in English!
                    >> --
                    >> Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                    >> Jersey City
                    >
                    >As already noted by several others on the list, the words 'poliadico' and 'poliade' are cognate and are often used equivalently -- in reference to gods, temples, sanctuaries, whatever. Many examples can be shown from hundreds of sources in scholarly and popular sources. A "dio poliadico" or "dio poliade" is a city's protector deity, and a "tempio poliadico" or "tempio poliade" is the temple of such a deity. There may be no exact equivalent in English, but its meaning in Italian is not obscure.
                    >
                    >If you want examples in ANE, even from popular sources, see
                    >
                    >http://www.sapere.it/enciclopedia/b%c3%aal.html
                    >
                    >> Marduk, dio poliade della città di Babele....
                    >
                    >On equivalences between 'poliadico' and 'poliade', see again below. Your original suggestion (see also infra) that the term has something to do with "syncretic" is erroneous.
                    >
                    >Steve Farmer
                    >Palo Alto, Ca
                    >
                    >Steve Farmer wrote:
                    >
                    >> 'Poliadico' is cognate with 'poliade,' and 'tempio poliadico' or 'tempio poliade' refer to the temple of a god protecting a city.
                    >>
                    >> See e.g. this web discussion, where the author discusses the possible interpretations of a temple dedicated to Apollo in Pompei:
                    >>
                    >> http://spazioinwind.libero.it/popoli_antichi/altro/pompei-apollo.html
                    >>
                    >>> Sono due le ipotesi possibili: o Apollo era il dio poliadico, cioè il protettore per eccellenza della città, oppure era il dio che proteggeva le attività commerciali, da sempre fonte di sostentamento e di ricchezza per gli abitanti di Pompei.
                    >>
                    >> There are also many references on the web to one or another "tempio poliade," e.g. here:
                    >>
                    >> http://tinyurl.com/84fvjr4
                    >>
                    >> A French Wikipedia article gives a more direct definition:
                    >>
                    >> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliade
                    >>
                    >>> Poliade est un adjectif provenant de la racine grecque polis « cité ».
                    >>
                    >>> En théologie, une divinité poliade est une divinité qui protège une cité qui lui rend un culte spécifique. Dans la Grèce antique, chaque cité possédait une ou plusieurs divinités protectrices. Ainsi Athènes était-elle protégée par Athéna, Sparte par Athéna et Artémis, Éphèse par Artémis, Argos par Héra, etc.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> S. Farmer
                    >> Palo Alto, California
                    >>
                    >> On Feb 4, 2012, at 8:15 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
                    >>
                    >>> I am translating an article from Italian, and it refers to a "tempio poliadico." The only "definition" found anywhere is 'polyadic'. The only use of this word in English outside mathematics is in Wilfred Watson's translation of an Italian book on Dagan, which has many references to "polyadic gods" but no hint of what is meant. "Poliadico" occurs with "tempio" and "santuario" in Italian.
                    >>>
                    >>> I'm wondering whether it perhaps means 'syncretic', but that doesn't help with how to render it in reference to a temple.
                    >>>
                    >>> --
                    >>> Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

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