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SV: [ANE-2] Re: THE BIBLE UNEARTHED

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  • Niels Peter Lemche
    Dear Werner You are absolutely right: Finkelstein is good, very good indeed, but the same can be said about Amy Mazar, a very skilled archaeologist. My advice
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 18, 2006
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      Dear Werner

      You are absolutely right: Finkelstein is good, very good indeed, but the
      same can be said about Amy Mazar, a very skilled archaeologist. My
      advice is: If you read Finkelstein, you should also read Mazar.

      It is not so much about C-14 which is not for the 12th-10th century a
      very precise medium. It is a bout pottery. Here Finkelstein promotes
      what he calls the lower chronology. But surely, there are problems.

      On line with Finkelstein, the doyen of Israeli archaeology, David
      Ussishkin. I do not know but guess that the late Orna Zimhoni may have
      had her part of this. There is a book from Tel Aviv with her essays. She
      was definitely their expert on pottery but died young in 1997.

      NPLemche
    • Yigal Levin
      Dear Niels Peter, While I agree in principle that the author of Kings uses numbers to make a point, and that obviously all of the multiples of 40 are
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 17, 2006
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        Dear Niels Peter,

        While I agree in principle that the author of Kings uses numbers to make a point, and that obviously all of the multiples of 40 are typological, I wonder how you count Jehoshaphat as a bad king. Here's the entire passage, from 1 Kings 22:

        41 Jehoshaphat son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of King Ahab of Israel. 42 Jehoshaphat was thirty-five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned twenty-five years in Jerusalem. His mother's name was Azubah daughter of Shilhi. 43 He walked in all the way of his father Asa; he did not turn aside from it, doing what was right in the sight of the Lord; yet the high places were not taken away, and the people still sacrificed and offered incense on the high places. 44 Jehoshaphat also made peace with the king of Israel. 45 Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, and his power that he showed, and how he waged war, are they not written in the Book of the Annals of the Kings of Judah? 46 The remnant of the male temple prostitutes who were still in the land in the days of his father Asa, he exterminated. 47 There was no king in Edom; a deputy was king. 48 Jehoshaphat made ships of the Tarshish type to go to Ophir for gold; but they did not go, for the ships were wrecked at Ezion-geber. 49 Then Ahaziah son of Ahab said to Jehoshaphat, "Let my servants go with your servants in the ships," but Jehoshaphat was not willing. 50 Jehoshaphat slept with his ancestors and was buried with his ancestors in the city of his father David; his son Jehoram succeeded him.

        So not perfect - he's also criticized earlier for making an alliance with Israel, but certainly more good than bad. He walked in the ways of Asa, who you count as a good king.

        Yigal Levin

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Niels Peter Lemche
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 7:15 AM
        Subject: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: THE BIBLE UNEARTHED


        Well, my friend, you are walking around in some literal reading where
        few except the evangelicals will follow you.

        Have a look of the chronology of the early Judean kingdom (if there was
        any):

        David 40 years - good king
        Saul 40 years - good king
        Rehabeam 17 years + Abiyah 3 years = 20 years - bad kings
        Asa 40 years - good king (41 in Kings, 40 in Chronicles -- definitely
        some corruption took place here)
        Josaphat 25 years + Joram 8 years + Ahaziah 1 year + Athaliah 6 years --
        all bad kings (and a bad queen) = 40 years
        Yoash 40 years - good king

        It is totally artificial this system. The author of Samuel and Kings had
        no idea about actual numbers; he had no idea about the historical part
        of what he was writing. He used numbers for different purposes, like in
        Judges, the list of the small Judges:

        Tola 23 years
        Jair 22 years
        Ibsan 7 years
        Elon 10 years
        Abdon 8 years
        All together 70 years
        The calculation of the individual numbers had to make up the round or
        pregnant number 70

        And more
        Othniel: Peace for Israel in 40 years
        Ehud: Peace for Israel in 80 years
        Barak: Peace for Israel in 40 years
        Gideon: Peace for Israel in 40 years

        Have an article about it, so far in Danish only. Will see if I get time
        to translate it sometimes during the upcoming dark and gloomy
        Scandinavian winter.

        So, please enjoy playing your numbers. In biblical studies -- except
        from the conservative part -- sorry to say, your endeavours will be
        reckoned goose hunting.

        Niels Peter Lemche

        PS: Now it is time to see your credentials: Astrochronologist, what is
        this strange creature? Never heard about it. Please show your cards, and
        let some assyriologists join the discussion about their chronology. But,
        dear Lars, be short.

        PS II: you didn't answer my question! That you have your beloved
        Chronicles say -- according to your interpretation only -- that Rehoboam
        ruled together with Solomon, was it for 7 years, another round biblical
        number -- while the same book two chapters earlier expressly says that
        Solomon died, was buried and then succeeded by his son. I think your
        interpretation of 2 Chron 12 is eisegesis, not exegesis.




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