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Re: [ANE-2] Re: more on the 'purity seal'

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  • Jim West
    Hi Doug- I m happy to let Robert speak for himself. Here he is in his own words- Jim my friend You correctly mentioned that I suggested the very same
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 4, 2012
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      Hi Doug- I'm happy to let Robert speak for himself. Here he is in his
      own words-

      Jim my friend

      You correctly mentioned that I suggested the very same interpratation on
      the day that the seal was announced. So Naeh’s suggestion is not at all
      new. But more than that, He even attributed some of my words to himself,
      such as: “the back of the bulla has two identations and no signs of a
      cord which sealed an object are visible” (and he is not an expert on
      bullae to see such a detail).
      So how are we call such attribution made by honest Prof. Shlomo Naeit ?

      Robert Deutsch

      http://bit.ly/yE4yPo



      On 1/4/2012 11:29 AM, Douglas Petrovich wrote:
      > Jim,
      >
      > “it should be noted that Robert Deutsch suggested the very same reading on the day that the seal was announced. so Naeh's suggestion is not at all new.”
      >
      > I certainly do not want to speak for Robert Deutsch, but it seems to me that Naeh’s reading is quite different than Deutsch’s, though they do agree on what transpired at the Temple court (with the money-for-token exchange). Naeh takes the first word to be dakar (ram), whereas Deutsch seems to stick with daka (pure). However, it should be noted that Deutsch did not attempt to provide a translation.
      >

      --
      +++++++
      Jim West, ThD
      Petros, TN
    • Joseph I. Lauer
      Douglas Petrovich wrote that Robert notes (on his academia.edu blog) that the item found was made of tin . However, while Robert Deutsch s academia.edu note
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 4, 2012
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        Douglas Petrovich wrote that "Robert notes (on his academia.edu blog)
        that the item found was made of tin".
        However, while Robert Deutsch's academia.edu note quoted an Ha'aretz
        [English] article stating that the survey "yielded a tiny tin artifact",
        http://telaviv.academia.edu/RobertDeutsch/Blog/55062/The-First-Written-Evidence-Confirming-Jerusalem-Temple-Ritual-Practices,
        the Hebrew version of the Ha'aretz article stated that the artifact was made
        from clay (the word "tin" in Hebrew is literally "silt, mud", while the
        Hebrew translation of the English word "tin" is b'dil). See
        http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/science/1.1600511
        The error was made by the Ha'aretz translator.
        Joseph I. Lauer
        Brooklyn, New York
      • deutsch51
        My post 10 days ago did not challenged the reading of the bulla, which seems to be correct, but I did challenge the interpretation of it s use. I emphasized
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 4, 2012
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          My post 10 days ago did not challenged the reading of the bulla, which seems to be correct, but I did challenge the interpretation of it's use. I emphasized the fact that the back of the bulla has two indentations left by the fingers of the seal's owner and there is no evidence of a papyrus impression or a cord tunnel which can testify of its use as a sealing. Based on the Mishna it is evident that this bulla served as a means of payment. Bullae used as means of payments are known also from the Iron Age, named by Nahman Avigad as "fiscal bullae". Therefore Prof. Naeh's suggestion regarding the use of the bulla is not at all new. Moreover I can safely state that his opinion was influenced by my post, as some of its formulations are exact as were expressed by me. In any event, Prof. Naeh'e reading is a pure speculation and it has to be rejected.

          Robert Deutsch
        • Douglas Petrovich
          Robert, Thank you for this helpful clarification. I understand the feeling when a colleague delineates your ideas as his/her own, as this very thing happened
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 4, 2012
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            Robert,

            Thank you for this helpful clarification. I understand the feeling when a colleague delineates your ideas as his/her own, as this very thing happened to me in a conference-presentation I attended in November. A dear colleague of mine was discussing ideas for which someone else in the room credited him, but which derived from an article I published 5 years ago (a copy of which I subsequently gave to him to read).

            The only question you left unaddressed is whether you believe this to be the seal of the owner, which was used to make fiscal bullae for the masses, or to be one of the undoubtedly numerous seal impressions (bullae) that were produced by means of the original seal.

            Many thanks,

            Doug Petrovich
            Toronto, Canada


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