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Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: Tel Gezer: the first four seasons

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  • David Hall
    Arthur Evans found horns of consecration at Minoan Crete more than 100 years ago.  At Akrotiri, Thera there is a wall mural with the profile of a horned
    Message 1 of 148 , Nov 3, 2011
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      Arthur Evans found "horns of consecration" at Minoan Crete more than 100 years ago.  At Akrotiri, Thera there is a wall mural with the profile of a horned altar with blood dripping from it.    
       
      If you google (US) "Mycenaean four horned altar"  you might find more. 
       
      There is evidence on Greek Islands (with Crete and Cyprus included) of early sacrificial altars with burnt bones found in situ around some of the altars.  This might be found in a comprehensive study of Greek archaeology with photos and text not available on the Internet due to copyright restricitions and limited interest.
       
      David Q. Hall
      Falls Church, Virginia


      ________________________________
      From: Christopher Jones <cwjones1989@...>
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:18 PM
      Subject: Re: SV: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: Tel Gezer: the first four seasons



       

      Hello,

      In the reference volume "The Phoenicians," Sabatino Moscati mentions a
      Phoenician horned altar found at Tharros in Sardinia (p. 365-366). Is
      this horned altar related to the Israelite/Philistine version? I don't
      have access to any technical literature on Tharros excavations at the
      moment.

      In addition, I've read some suggestions that the Sign of Tanit is in
      fact a depiction of a horned altar, although I find that explanation
      rather unconvincing.

      --
      Christopher Jones
      cjones89@...
      http://riversfromeden.wordpress.com/

      On 11-11-02 07:31 AM, David Hall wrote:
      >
      > Killebrew wrote a nice chapter about the Philistines in her book. She
      > cited Drews and Dothan for some of her text (see bibliography).
      >
      > The horned altar described in the Bible and found at Israeli and
      > Philistine Iron Age sites was used as early as Minoan times at
      > Santorini and later amongst the Greek Islands (Crete and Cyprus are
      > also Greek speaking islands). This type of altar did not originate in
      > Egypt, Sinai, or Arabia.
      >
      > Yadin wrote an essay about the tribe of Dan as staying in a place
      > where they had ships (Judges 5:17). They eventually settled at Tel
      > Dan. This is also evidence for the Sea Peoples displacing those
      > living along the coast. A Mycenaean grave full of Mycenaean pottery
      > was found at Tel Dan. Could this be evidence of a Sea People's
      > raiding party, or of a trading connection? The pottery is in the
      > museum adjacent to the Tel Dan national park.
      >
      > Stager found Canaanite pottery at Ashkelon and Philistine pottery
      > immediately above it as evidence for a change in culture. Merneptah
      > conquered Ashkelon. The Philistines settled there sometime later.
      >
      > David Q. Hall
      > Falls Church, Virginia
      >
      > From: MarcC <marc.cooper@... <mailto:marc.cooper%40hotmail.com>>
      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:41 PM
      > Subject: SV: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: Tel Gezer: the first four seasons
      >
      >
      > What do you think of Liverani's treatment of the Philistine Problem in
      > Israel's History or Killebrew's treatment in Biblical Peoples and
      > Ethnicity?
      >
      > Marc Cooper
      > Missouri State University
      >
      > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>, "Thomas
      > L. Thompson" <tlt@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Palashtu is Assyrian and refers, apparently, to the southern part of
      > Palestine.
      > > Peleset seems to me to be the original reference and the others
      > derivative, but of course our information is limited. I have not seen
      > a decent treatment of this particular issue since Ahlstrøm's chapter
      > in his History of Palestine.
      > >
      > >
      > > Thomas L. Thompson
      > > Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen
      > > ________________________________
      > > Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
      > [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>] På vegne af
      > David Hall [dqhall59@...]
      > > Sendt: 31. oktober 2011 14:10
      > > Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Emne: Re: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: Tel Gezer: the first four seasons
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thomas,
      > >
      > > I am not sure what Palashtu is. I have read Peleset, Philistine, and
      > Palestine are derivatives of the same word.
      > >
      > > A study of the Sea Peoples might be required to begin to understand
      > some of the migrations that were occurring. A comprehensive book about
      > this subject is: THE END OF THE BRONZE AGE, by Robert Drews,
      > Princeton, 1993. This might be a good place to start. I have it in
      > paperback form with a 17 page bibliography on the back pages. The
      > coastal cities of Crete were destroyed, the Greek city Mycenae was
      > destroyed, etc.
      > >
      > > There are more recent archaeological reports about this subject as well.
      > >
      > > David Q. Hall
      > > Falls Church, Virginia
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • aren
      Raz, Once again, I m rather hesitant to get into this, since the ongoing back and forth is most often done on the basis of party lines and self-perceived
      Message 148 of 148 , Dec 6, 2011
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        Raz,
        Once again, I'm rather hesitant to get into this, since the ongoing back and forth is most often done on the basis of "party lines" and self-perceived "truths" and often without reference to the latest research in various areas.

        I was not, in any way stating who has the truth or not, at this or that university. For that matter, I felt that both sides of what appeared to be a completely aimless argument were not arguing about details of the most updated discussions and recent evidence of the LB destructions and/or the Sea Peoples, but rather going over their "party lines" - of which each side was totally convinced that his/her "truth" had "won" long ago (and nothing scares me more [in research, religion and politics] than those who know for sure that they are absolutely right).

        Simplistic conceptions of the various ideological divisions and scholarly camps are really only useful if you are interested in the debate - and not the content (or the history and sociology of research). Current research, with an overflow of wide ranging data, has shown, in my humble opinion, if anything, that the various ideological "camps" of the historical reconstruction of the beginning of the Iron Age are all wrong (or if you want, they are all partially right)! Things were much more complicated than previously assumed.
        For example, the simplistic explanation of the Philistines as monolithic conquerors does not hold - but neither does the often repeated mantra that there is no evidence of the influx of Aegean (or rather "western") oriented cultural elements. Au contraire - there is plenty of evidence of this, and that it can most probably be connected to the actual arrival of bona fide "bodies" who carried these cultural influences to the Levant.
        And to make things ever more multi-faceted, this is true to varying degrees in different areas, such as if we compare the situation in Philistia, Phoenicia and the Amuq. To try and explain away all these things in simplistic terms may sound good in a debating society - but not for those of us who are intimately involved in the nitty-gritty details of the relevant archaeological finds.
        Knowing Hebrew is not a sine qua non for studying the archaeology of this region, just like you can study the archaeology of Denmark, or Finland, without knowing the local languages. But, it can be very helpful (to say the least, as you well know).
        AND, when dealing with a topic such as the destruction of Hazor (which much of the recent discussion on this list was not demonstrating an awareness of much of the most updated research), if the most recent discussion is in Hebrew, it is worthwhile to relate to it.

        But hey - I've long ago had the feeling that this list is all too often more about the sociology of research and the psychology of the researchers, than research itself.

        But that is my opinion - and what do I know...

        Aren Maeir
        gath.wordpress.com
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