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Re: [ANE-2] Exodus proof? (was: Elephantine Aramaic Papyri)

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  • Ian Onvlee
     Hi George, Jon,  The problem is not so much the question of archaeological evidence, but that we do not have a single contemporary record of names and
    Message 1 of 33 , Oct 9, 2011
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       Hi George, Jon,

       The problem is not so much the question of archaeological evidence, but
      that we do not have a single contemporary record of names and
      events of any figures prior to, say, Shishak. So even
      if there are some archaeological pieces of archaeological evidence, you
      still wouldn't convince the most hardheaded person of an historical
      exodus if the precise names Moses, Aaron and Miriam and all the
      tribes of Israel are not found written on the forehead of their remains - if
      possible naming also some identifiable Egyptian or Mesopotamian kings. That is what  historians want to see. Anything else is called
      'circumstantial evidence'.  Such 'definite, literal evidence' is hard to deny, and has been found concerning the Persians and Romans,
      even if there is no archaeological evidence for it. But such unequivocal contemporary evidence is not found concerning
      any of the Biblical figures prior to Rehobeam, and of many other non-biblical figures as well. And even when we do find evidence, such as at Mari and at Ebla, there is always a handy man who reinterpret the evidence in such a way that the evidence is refuted and this refutation is copied by all as being the more 'recent evidence'. Nobody tries to burn his hands on refuting the refutation, since it also involves their jobs and carreers.

      So if there is no irrefutable contemporary literary evidence, then one
      is asked to show a set of correctly interlocking
      archaeological evidence, a task which is more difficult than anything else concerning historical events. But you can bet on your grandmother's chair that as soon as you do accomplish that feat, you will be rewarded with ultimate silence. Evidence for a real Exodus is unwanted, even by most believers. A miracle that becomes real seizes to be a miracle.That is the main reason why especially the most far-fetched scenario's fair so well. They are wanted. People simply love science-fiction.

      So we
      are mainly dealing on the one hand with what Sunday Schools told us to believe, and on the other hand with the cat and mouse game between Biblicists and Archaeologists.


      Regards,
      Ian Onvlee
      Holland, Den Haag



      ________________________________
      From: Jon Smyth <driver40386@...>
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 4:09 AM
      Subject: [ANE-2] Exodus proof? (was: Elephantine Aramaic Papyri)


       


      At the risk of appearing to support an Exodus argument, which I do not. May I ask this question in all fairness.

      In something of the order of almost a thousand years later, from c.700 BCE to the Christian era, we know from the written record that the Assyrian, Persian, Greek, and Roman armies all crossed the northern Sinai, back & forth.
      Is there an abundance of archaeological evidence which can prove that any of these armies did indeed make such crossings?

      Yet we ask Exodus proponants to find archaeological proof of one crossing?

      Is there any evidence the Hyksos made the crossing?

      I do not believe the Biblical Exodus story but I think the argument against such a story offered below is a flawed argument.

      Sincerely, Jon Smyth
      Kitchener, Ont. Can.

      --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:
      >
      > The problem with your thesis is that there is no archaeological evidence for either the Exodus or the Conquest.  One would expect that had the Exodus been an historical fact then they would have left some evidence of their traverse of the desert since other smaller groups have left such evidence.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • R. Lehmann
      The 10th Mainz International Colloquium on Ancient Hebrew (MICAH) will take place October 2011, friday to sunday 28th-30th, at the
      Message 33 of 33 , Oct 10, 2011
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        The 10th Mainz International Colloquium on Ancient Hebrew (MICAH) will take place October 2011, friday to sunday 28th-30th,
        at the Johannes-Gutenberg-University of Mainz, Germany:
        http://www.micah.hebraistik.uni-mainz.de/eng/204.php

        Topics cover the Ancient and Classical Hebrew, i. e. Epigraphic and Biblical Hebrew, as well as adjacent languages and epigraphics,
        as for instance Phoenician & Punic, Old and Imperial Aramaic, and the ancient Transjordan languages.

        The program schedule is online now:
        http://www.micah.hebraistik.uni-mainz.de/eng/115.php

        For participation, we request a fee of 30 Euro, which is due onsite. This includes the conference binder, abstracts, badge, free WLAN access onsite, and refreshments. We are sorry that because of misuse by certain alien cadgers at the last meetings, these benefits will only granted to those who wear an authentic conference badge.

        For proper preparation, we request a simple pre-registration e-mail to micah@....
        Looking forward to meeting you in Mainz soon.

        Reinhard G. Lehmann


        ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
        Dr. Reinhard G. Lehmann
        Academic Director
        Research Unit on Ancient Hebrew & Epigraphy
        FB 01/ Faculty of Protestant Theology
        Johannes Gutenberg-University of Mainz
        D-55099 Mainz
        Germany
        lehmann@...
        http://www.hebraistik.uni-mainz.de
        http://www.ev.theologie.uni-mainz.de/297.php
        Subsidia et Instrumenta Linguarum Orientis (SILO):
        http://www.hebraistik.uni-mainz.de/182.php
        10th Mainz International Colloquium on Ancient Hebrew (MICAH):
        http://www.micah.hebraistik.uni-mainz.de/204.php





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