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unfamiliar decipherment book

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  • Peter T. Daniels
    Does anyone know anything about this book or its author, found at amazon (and nowhere else)? And the whole earth was of one language: Decipherment of lost
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 28, 2011
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      Does anyone know anything about this book or its author, found at amazon (and
      nowhere else)?

      And the whole earth was of one language: Decipherment of lost languages
      including Etruscan, Scythian, Phrygian, Lycian, Hittite, Hurrian, Urartian,
      Sumerian, Archaemenid Aramaic & Elamite, Parthian by Selahi Diker 

      apparently self-published, in 1994.
       --
      Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
      Jersey City
    • Lampros F. Kallenos
      Searching Google with the title brings some references. http://tinyurl.com/4xtteqt This webpage explains the reasoning and the contents of the book:
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 28, 2011
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        Searching Google with the title brings some references.

        http://tinyurl.com/4xtteqt

        This webpage explains the reasoning and the contents of the
        book:

        http://www.angelfire.com/al2/arkeoloji/kayipdiller.htm

        He seems to be saying that for reasons of satisfying the
        continuity of history, no languages should have been lost.
        So, something should be there, and he has found it --but I
        was too lazy to carefully follow his argument.

        Here's a paragraph from it:

        > Thus, the elimination of this anomaly from the history books
        > depended on the proof that these languages were akin to
        Turkish
        > in some form or dialect. Based on this logical point, the
        book
        > solves the secrets of the lost languages, and a global
        > distribution and development of the Turkish languages during
        > the last five thousand years has been established.

        The above page also mentions a 1996 copyright for the book.


        Google books has a 1999 edition, no preview, where a
        subtitle is seen to the book: "Ten thousand years of the Turks".

        http://tinyurl.com/3n7faoh


        Also at the Yale Univ library

        http://yufind.library.yale.edu/yufind/Record/4755089


        _____________________________
        Lampros F. Kallenos
        Idalion, Lefkosia
        Kypros
        --
      • Peter Van Der Veen
        Dear List members: Announcement: International Conference of Biblical Archaeology at the Chr. Gästezentrum Württemberg (Schönblick) near Stuttgart from
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 28, 2011
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          Dear List members:

          Announcement:

          International Conference of Biblical Archaeology

          at the Chr. Gästezentrum Württemberg (Schönblick) near Stuttgart from November 25-27 (2011)

          SCRIBES AND SCRIBAL TRADITIONS IN ANCIENT ISRAEL

          with

          (main speakers)

          Professor Dr André Lemaire
          „Writing and Scribal Schools in Monarchic Israel“
          „King David and the Tell Dan and Mesha Stelae“

          Professor Dr Alan Millard
          „Writing and the Origin of the Gospels“
          „What Did They Write in Canaan and Israel: Fram Graffiti to Literature?“

          (additional lectures, e.g.)

          Dr Viktor Golinets
          „The Khirbet Qeiyafa Ostracon: Different Interpretations“

          Dr Martin Heide
          „Schriftradition und Schreibmaterial“ (in German only)

          Dr Reinhard G. Lehmann
          „Do You Know What You are Reading? Epigraphic Observations on Oral Transmission“

          Dr Peter van der Veen
          „Introductory Lecture to Conference Topic“

          Professor Dr Wolfgang Zwickel
          „The Origins of the Hebrew and Phoenician Languages“

          Conference Fee 40 EUR (Students 20 EUR)
          Single and Shared Rooms available
          For prices of accommodation please inquire:

          G. van der Veen
          Reinhardstrasse 31
          73614 Schorndorf
          Germany
          Tel. +49-7181-989118
          Email: van_der_Veen@...

          Registration Dead-Line November 15 (2011)

          Please register soon as the place is filling up quickly!!

          --
          Dr. Pieter Gert van der Veen
          Arbeitsgruppe für Biblische Archäologie/ABA
          Postdoctoral studies at
          Trinity College Bristol
          Joh. Gutenberg University of Mainz

          Reinhardstrasse 31
          D-73614 Schorndorf
          Germany
          Tel. (+49) (0) 7181-989118 (office)
        • George F Somsel
          This is all I know about it.   http://tinyurl.com/4yaoxsx  george gfsomsel … search for truth, hear truth, learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 29, 2011
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            This is all I know about it.
             
            http://tinyurl.com/4yaoxsx%c2%a0

            george
            gfsomsel


            … search for truth, hear truth,
            learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
            defend the truth till death.


            - Jan Hus
            _________

            From: Peter T. Daniels <grammatim@...>
            >To: ANE-2 list <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
            >Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 9:39 AM
            >Subject: [ANE-2] unfamiliar decipherment book
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >Does anyone know anything about this book or its author, found at amazon (and
            >nowhere else)?
            >
            >And the whole earth was of one language: Decipherment of lost languages
            >including Etruscan, Scythian, Phrygian, Lycian, Hittite, Hurrian, Urartian,
            >Sumerian, Archaemenid Aramaic & Elamite, Parthian by Selahi Diker 
            >
            >apparently self-published, in 1994.
            > --
            >Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
            >Jersey City
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Peter T. Daniels
            That s very helpful. Ataturk would have been so proud! (Landsberger found a way to be nice to Ataturk without doing too much violence to the facts of ANE
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 29, 2011
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              That's very helpful. Ataturk would have been so proud! (Landsberger found a way
              to be nice to Ataturk without doing too much violence to the facts of ANE
              languages and history.) Thank you.
               --
              Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
              Jersey City

              >
              >From: Lampros F. Kallenos <xalkinos04@...>
              >To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Sun, August 28, 2011 5:46:35 PM
              >Subject: Re: [ANE-2] unfamiliar decipherment book
              >

              >Searching Google with the title brings some references.
              >
              >http://tinyurl.com/4xtteqt
              >
              >This webpage explains the reasoning and the contents of the
              >book:
              >
              >http://www.angelfire.com/al2/arkeoloji/kayipdiller.htm
              >
              >He seems to be saying that for reasons of satisfying the
              >continuity of history, no languages should have been lost.
              >So, something should be there, and he has found it --but I
              >was too lazy to carefully follow his argument.
              >
              >Here's a paragraph from it:
              >
              >> Thus, the elimination of this anomaly from the history books
              >> depended on the proof that these languages were akin to
              >Turkish
              >> in some form or dialect. Based on this logical point, the
              >book
              >> solves the secrets of the lost languages, and a global
              >> distribution and development of the Turkish languages during
              >> the last five thousand years has been established.
              >
              >The above page also mentions a 1996 copyright for the book.
              >
              >Google books has a 1999 edition, no preview, where a
              >subtitle is seen to the book: "Ten thousand years of the Turks".
              >
              >http://tinyurl.com/3n7faoh
              >
              >Also at the Yale Univ library
              >
              >http://yufind.library.yale.edu/yufind/Record/4755089
            • carla sulzbach
              According to the link provided (http://www.angelfire.com/al2/arkeoloji/kayipdiller.htm), the author also generously captures Achaemenid Aramaic under Turkish
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 29, 2011
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                According to the link provided (http://www.angelfire.com/al2/arkeoloji/kayipdiller.htm), the author also generously captures 'Achaemenid Aramaic' under Turkish languages: * Other lost languages including Sumerian,
                Scythian, Phrygian, Trojan, Lycian, Hittite (Hattian), Hurrian, Urartian,
                Pelasgian (Oghur Turkish, the ancestor of the Hungarian - Finnish, Chuvash and
                perhaps the ancient Cimmerian language), Achaemenid Aramaic (official language
                of the Achaemenid Persians, translated partly by R. A. Bowman), Elamite (also an
                official language of the Persians, phonology and morphology of which is well
                investigated by Herbert H. Paper), Median, Parthian (the language of the super
                power of the East that challenged the Roman Empire), and several languages of
                Central Asia including that of Sakas (Yueh-Chih), Sogdians (considered by
                Richard N. Frye and others as Iranian), White Huns (Hephtalites) have been
                deciphered in this book through translations of existing texts, using normally
                accepted phonetics of the Aramaic-Phoenician alphabet or applying a modified
                'filtered' cuneiform reading in which according to Hincks (transmitted by
                Sumerologist Samuel Noah Kramer) 'one and the same cuneiform sign could stand
                for more than one sound or value', and / or through translation of local
                geographical names and of personal names of kings and nobles. All these
                languages are thus proved to be basically Turkish. It has also been established
                that Turkish-speaking peoples had important roles in the founding of the ancient
                Chinese civilization as well as Egyptian civilization. * Last time I checked, Aramaic (regardless of its place or time of use) was a Semitic language. Carla SulzbachMontreal
                To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                From: grammatim@...
                Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:00:07 -0700
                Subject: Re: [ANE-2] unfamiliar decipherment book




























                That's very helpful. Ataturk would have been so proud! (Landsberger found a way

                to be nice to Ataturk without doing too much violence to the facts of ANE

                languages and history.) Thank you.

                --

                Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...

                Jersey City



                >

                >From: Lampros F. Kallenos <xalkinos04@...>

                >To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com

                >Sent: Sun, August 28, 2011 5:46:35 PM

                >Subject: Re: [ANE-2] unfamiliar decipherment book

                >

                >

                >Searching Google with the title brings some references.

                >

                >http://tinyurl.com/4xtteqt

                >

                >This webpage explains the reasoning and the contents of the

                >book:

                >

                >http://www.angelfire.com/al2/arkeoloji/kayipdiller.htm

                >

                >He seems to be saying that for reasons of satisfying the

                >continuity of history, no languages should have been lost.

                >So, something should be there, and he has found it --but I

                >was too lazy to carefully follow his argument.

                >

                >Here's a paragraph from it:

                >

                >> Thus, the elimination of this anomaly from the history books

                >> depended on the proof that these languages were akin to

                >Turkish

                >> in some form or dialect. Based on this logical point, the

                >book

                >> solves the secrets of the lost languages, and a global

                >> distribution and development of the Turkish languages during

                >> the last five thousand years has been established.

                >

                >The above page also mentions a 1996 copyright for the book.

                >

                >Google books has a 1999 edition, no preview, where a

                >subtitle is seen to the book: "Ten thousand years of the Turks".

                >

                >http://tinyurl.com/3n7faoh

                >

                >Also at the Yale Univ library

                >

                >http://yufind.library.yale.edu/yufind/Record/4755089
















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • bjorn07se
                ... Such efforts to claim relationship with prestigious languages like Sumerian or Etruscan remind me of Olof Rudbeck s Atlantica (1679) from the time when
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 29, 2011
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                  --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, carla sulzbach <cjsulz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > According to the link provided
                  > (http://www.angelfire.com/al2/arkeoloji/kayipdiller.htm) the author
                  > also generously captures 'Achaemenid Aramaic' under Turkish languages:
                  > * Other lost languages including Sumerian, Scythian, Phrygian,
                  > Trojan, Lycian, Hittite (Hattian), Hurrian, Urartian, Pelasgian
                  > (Oghur Turkish, the ancestor of the Hungarian - Finnish, Chuvash
                  > and perhaps the ancient Cimmerian language), Achaemenid Aramaic
                  > (official language of the Achaemenid Persians, translated partly by
                  > R. A. Bowman), Elamite (also an official language of the Persians,
                  > phonology and morphology of which is well investigated by Herbert
                  > H. Paper), Median, Parthian (the language of the super power of the
                  > East that challenged the Roman Empire), and several languages of
                  > Central Asia including that of Sakas (Yueh-Chih), Sogdians (considered
                  > by Richard N. Frye and others as Iranian), White Huns (Hephtalites)
                  > have been deciphered in this book through translations of existing
                  > texts, using normally accepted phonetics of the Aramaic-Phoenician
                  > alphabet or applying a modified 'filtered' cuneiform reading in
                  > which according to Hincks (transmitted by Sumerologist Samuel Noah
                  > Kramer) 'one and the same cuneiform sign could stand for more than
                  > one sound or value', and / or through translation of local geographical
                  > names and of personal names of kings and nobles. All these languages
                  > are thus proved to be basically Turkish. It has also been established
                  > that Turkish-speaking peoples had important roles in the founding
                  > of the ancient Chinese civilization as well as Egyptian civilization.

                  > * Last time I checked, Aramaic (regardless of its place or time of
                  > use) was a Semitic language.
                  > Carla Sulzbach, Montreal
                  >
                  > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: grammatim@...
                  > Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:00:07 -0700
                  > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] unfamiliar decipherment book

                  > That's very helpful. Ataturk would have been so proud! (Landsberger
                  > found a way to be nice to Ataturk without doing too much violence
                  > to the facts of ANE languages and history.) Thank you.
                  > --
                  > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                  > Jersey City


                  Such efforts to claim relationship with 'prestigious' languages like
                  Sumerian or Etruscan remind me of Olof Rudbeck's Atlantica (1679) from
                  the time when Sweden could claim reputation as an European superpower.

                  According to Rudbeck (if I remember correctly), Adam and Eve spoke
                  Swedish and the infamous snake spoke Danish (undskyld, Niels-Peter)!


                  For some reason, I don't put much trust in any of these statements.


                  Björn Lindborg (Stockholm, Sweden)
                • Robert M Whiting
                  On Mon, 29 Aug 2011, bjorn07se wrote: ... Voltaire, always on the spot with the mot juste, took a swipe at such claims: I am not like a lady at the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 29, 2011
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                    On Mon, 29 Aug 2011, bjorn07se wrote:

                    <snip>

                    > Such efforts to claim relationship with 'prestigious' languages like
                    > Sumerian or Etruscan remind me of Olof Rudbeck's Atlantica (1679) from
                    > the time when Sweden could claim reputation as an European superpower.
                    >
                    > According to Rudbeck (if I remember correctly), Adam and Eve spoke
                    > Swedish and the infamous snake spoke Danish (undskyld, Niels-Peter)!
                    >
                    >
                    > For some reason, I don't put much trust in any of these statements.

                    Voltaire, always on the spot with the mot juste, took a swipe at such
                    claims:

                    I am not like a lady at the court of Versailles, who said: "What a
                    dreadful pity that the bother at the tower of Babel should have got
                    language all mixed up; but for that, everyone would always have
                    spoken French."

                    Voltaire, Letter to Catherine the Great (1767)

                    Although, admittedly, we're getting pretty far from the ANE here, despite
                    the mention of the tower of Babel.

                    Bob Whiting
                    whiting@...
                  • Niels Peter Lemche
                    Does it all not remind us of Herodotus story about how the Greeks found out that Pelasgian is the oldest language in the world, and not Greek what they had
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 29, 2011
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                      Does it all not remind us of Herodotus' story about how the Greeks found out that Pelasgian is the oldest language in the world, and not Greek what they had hoped for.

                      And saying that Adam and Eve spoke Swedish will call upon us the anger of the evangelicals, who of course say that they spoke Hebrew, i.e., Biblical Hebrew.

                      That Danish was around is commonly "known. Think of the tribe of Dan! And Danuna! They must have been around

                      Niels Peter Lemche



                      -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                      Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af bjorn07se
                      Sendt: den 30 augusti 2011 00:32
                      Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      Emne: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book



                      --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, carla sulzbach <cjsulz@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > According to the link provided
                      > (http://www.angelfire.com/al2/arkeoloji/kayipdiller.htm) the author
                      > also generously captures 'Achaemenid Aramaic' under Turkish languages:
                      > * Other lost languages including Sumerian, Scythian, Phrygian,
                      > Trojan, Lycian, Hittite (Hattian), Hurrian, Urartian, Pelasgian
                      > (Oghur Turkish, the ancestor of the Hungarian - Finnish, Chuvash
                      > and perhaps the ancient Cimmerian language), Achaemenid Aramaic
                      > (official language of the Achaemenid Persians, translated partly by
                      > R. A. Bowman), Elamite (also an official language of the Persians,
                      > phonology and morphology of which is well investigated by Herbert
                      > H. Paper), Median, Parthian (the language of the super power of the
                      > East that challenged the Roman Empire), and several languages of
                      > Central Asia including that of Sakas (Yueh-Chih), Sogdians (considered
                      > by Richard N. Frye and others as Iranian), White Huns (Hephtalites)
                      > have been deciphered in this book through translations of existing
                      > texts, using normally accepted phonetics of the Aramaic-Phoenician
                      > alphabet or applying a modified 'filtered' cuneiform reading in
                      > which according to Hincks (transmitted by Sumerologist Samuel Noah
                      > Kramer) 'one and the same cuneiform sign could stand for more than
                      > one sound or value', and / or through translation of local geographical
                      > names and of personal names of kings and nobles. All these languages
                      > are thus proved to be basically Turkish. It has also been established
                      > that Turkish-speaking peoples had important roles in the founding
                      > of the ancient Chinese civilization as well as Egyptian civilization.

                      > * Last time I checked, Aramaic (regardless of its place or time of
                      > use) was a Semitic language.
                      > Carla Sulzbach, Montreal
                      >
                      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: grammatim@...
                      > Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:00:07 -0700
                      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] unfamiliar decipherment book

                      > That's very helpful. Ataturk would have been so proud! (Landsberger
                      > found a way to be nice to Ataturk without doing too much violence
                      > to the facts of ANE languages and history.) Thank you.
                      > --
                      > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                      > Jersey City


                      Such efforts to claim relationship with 'prestigious' languages like
                      Sumerian or Etruscan remind me of Olof Rudbeck's Atlantica (1679) from
                      the time when Sweden could claim reputation as an European superpower.

                      According to Rudbeck (if I remember correctly), Adam and Eve spoke
                      Swedish and the infamous snake spoke Danish (undskyld, Niels-Peter)!


                      For some reason, I don't put much trust in any of these statements.


                      Björn Lindborg (Stockholm, Sweden)








                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Niels Peter Lemche
                      Dear Bob, This Summer has been so awful at least up here that we need something to laugh of (I suppose also in Finland). Besides, it reminds us about the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 29, 2011
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                        Dear Bob,

                        This Summer has been so awful at least up here that we need something to laugh of (I suppose also in Finland). Besides, it reminds us about the jungle surrounding us consisting of all kinds of nonsense. Normally it shows up at biblical lists, where, e.g., the claims to have found Noah's ship abound, so he must have led a whole armada.

                        I hope than non-moderators understand why we, the moderators, are removing mails relating to biblical truth from the list and appreciate our decision to do so.


                        Niels Peter Lemche



                        -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                        Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Robert M Whiting
                        Sendt: den 30 augusti 2011 01:15
                        Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                        Emne: Re: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book

                        On Mon, 29 Aug 2011, bjorn07se wrote:

                        <snip>

                        > Such efforts to claim relationship with 'prestigious' languages like
                        > Sumerian or Etruscan remind me of Olof Rudbeck's Atlantica (1679) from
                        > the time when Sweden could claim reputation as an European superpower.
                        >
                        > According to Rudbeck (if I remember correctly), Adam and Eve spoke
                        > Swedish and the infamous snake spoke Danish (undskyld, Niels-Peter)!
                        >
                        >
                        > For some reason, I don't put much trust in any of these statements.

                        Voltaire, always on the spot with the mot juste, took a swipe at such
                        claims:

                        I am not like a lady at the court of Versailles, who said: "What a
                        dreadful pity that the bother at the tower of Babel should have got
                        language all mixed up; but for that, everyone would always have
                        spoken French."

                        Voltaire, Letter to Catherine the Great (1767)

                        Although, admittedly, we're getting pretty far from the ANE here, despite
                        the mention of the tower of Babel.

                        Bob Whiting
                        whiting@...


                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Peter T. Daniels
                        I don t see how the story of Babel can be interpreted as stating that Hebrew was the Adamic language! When the tongues were confounded because of
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 30, 2011
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                          I don't see how the story of Babel can be interpreted as stating that Hebrew was
                          the Adamic language! When the tongues were confounded because of inappropriate
                          behavior, no one could understand anyone else, and no one person would have been
                          given the right to boast that he or she spoke the original language!

                          And anyway we have the word of no less than Gregory, the Pope in Rome, that the
                          language of Heaven was English: non Angli, sed angeli!--
                          Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...


                          >
                          >From: Niels Peter Lemche <npl@...>
                          >To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Sent: Tue, August 30, 2011 2:08:11 AM
                          >Subject: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book
                          >

                          >Does it all not remind us of Herodotus' story about how the Greeks found out
                          >that Pelasgian is the oldest language in the world, and not Greek what they had
                          >hoped for.
                          >
                          >And saying that Adam and Eve spoke Swedish will call upon us the anger of the
                          >evangelicals, who of course say that they spoke Hebrew, i.e., Biblical Hebrew.
                          >
                          >That Danish was around is commonly "known. Think of the tribe of Dan! And
                          >Danuna! They must have been around
                          >
                          >Niels Peter Lemche
                          >
                          >-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                          >Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af bjorn07se
                          >Sendt: den 30 augusti 2011 00:32
                          >Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                          >Emne: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book
                          >
                          >--- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, carla sulzbach <cjsulz@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> According to the link provided
                          >> (http://www.angelfire.com/al2/arkeoloji/kayipdiller.htm) the author
                          >> also generously captures 'Achaemenid Aramaic' under Turkish languages:
                          >> * Other lost languages including Sumerian, Scythian, Phrygian,
                          >> Trojan, Lycian, Hittite (Hattian), Hurrian, Urartian, Pelasgian
                          >> (Oghur Turkish, the ancestor of the Hungarian - Finnish, Chuvash
                          >> and perhaps the ancient Cimmerian language), Achaemenid Aramaic
                          >> (official language of the Achaemenid Persians, translated partly by
                          >> R. A. Bowman), Elamite (also an official language of the Persians,
                          >> phonology and morphology of which is well investigated by Herbert
                          >> H. Paper), Median, Parthian (the language of the super power of the
                          >> East that challenged the Roman Empire), and several languages of
                          >> Central Asia including that of Sakas (Yueh-Chih), Sogdians (considered
                          >> by Richard N. Frye and others as Iranian), White Huns (Hephtalites)
                          >> have been deciphered in this book through translations of existing
                          >> texts, using normally accepted phonetics of the Aramaic-Phoenician
                          >> alphabet or applying a modified 'filtered' cuneiform reading in
                          >> which according to Hincks (transmitted by Sumerologist Samuel Noah
                          >> Kramer) 'one and the same cuneiform sign could stand for more than
                          >> one sound or value', and / or through translation of local geographical
                          >> names and of personal names of kings and nobles. All these languages
                          >> are thus proved to be basically Turkish. It has also been established
                          >> that Turkish-speaking peoples had important roles in the founding
                          >> of the ancient Chinese civilization as well as Egyptian civilization.
                          >
                          >> * Last time I checked, Aramaic (regardless of its place or time of
                          >> use) was a Semitic language.
                          >> Carla Sulzbach, Montreal
                          >>
                          >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                          >> From: grammatim@...
                          >> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:00:07 -0700
                          >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] unfamiliar decipherment book
                          >
                          >> That's very helpful. Ataturk would have been so proud! (Landsberger
                          >> found a way to be nice to Ataturk without doing too much violence
                          >> to the facts of ANE languages and history.) Thank you.
                          >> --
                          >> Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                          >> Jersey City
                          >
                          >Such efforts to claim relationship with 'prestigious' languages like
                          >Sumerian or Etruscan remind me of Olof Rudbeck's Atlantica (1679) from
                          >the time when Sweden could claim reputation as an European superpower.
                          >
                          >According to Rudbeck (if I remember correctly), Adam and Eve spoke
                          >Swedish and the infamous snake spoke Danish (undskyld, Niels-Peter)!
                          >
                          >For some reason, I don't put much trust in any of these statements.
                          >
                          >Björn Lindborg (Stockholm, Sweden)

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Niels Peter Lemche
                          Well, maybe not exactly, but implied by the narrative logic of the primeval history: Adam with a play on adama, Eve with another on Havva and haja, Qain with
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 30, 2011
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                            Well, maybe not exactly, but implied by the narrative logic of the primeval history: Adam with a play on adama, Eve with another on Havva and haja, Qain with an outspoken one on qana, Abel, simply hevel. Eve's outburst when giving birth to Qain would make little sense without this implied conclusion.

                            So it is a safe guess that Adam spoke Hebrew, as safe as saying that there was an Adam speaking Hebrew -- not in the fairy tales but in the real world. As true that in the universe everybody around will converse in English, according to Hollywood logic.

                            Niels Peter Lemche



                            -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                            Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Peter T. Daniels
                            Sendt: den 30 augusti 2011 13:51
                            Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                            Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book

                            I don't see how the story of Babel can be interpreted as stating that Hebrew was
                            the Adamic language! When the tongues were confounded because of inappropriate
                            behavior, no one could understand anyone else, and no one person would have been
                            given the right to boast that he or she spoke the original language!

                            And anyway we have the word of no less than Gregory, the Pope in Rome, that the
                            language of Heaven was English: non Angli, sed angeli!--
                            Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...


                            >
                            >From: Niels Peter Lemche <npl@...>
                            >To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                            >Sent: Tue, August 30, 2011 2:08:11 AM
                            >Subject: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book
                            >

                            >Does it all not remind us of Herodotus' story about how the Greeks found out
                            >that Pelasgian is the oldest language in the world, and not Greek what they had
                            >hoped for.
                            >
                            >And saying that Adam and Eve spoke Swedish will call upon us the anger of the
                            >evangelicals, who of course say that they spoke Hebrew, i.e., Biblical Hebrew.
                            >
                            >That Danish was around is commonly "known. Think of the tribe of Dan! And
                            >Danuna! They must have been around
                            >
                            >Niels Peter Lemche
                          • Peter T. Daniels
                            We know that God speaks Hebrew (cf. Shahn, Alphabet of Creation). If Adam spoke Hebrew, why would He have had to bring him all the creatures on earth
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 30, 2011
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                              We know that God speaks Hebrew (cf. Shahn, Alphabet of Creation). If Adam spoke
                              Hebrew, why would He have had to bring him all the creatures on earth (obviously
                              that doesn't just mean "animals," as in modern English, but each individual
                              created thing) to find out what he would call them?

                              Wow, that must have taken a long time.

                              Don't give me this fancy philological whoop-de-doo. If the King James Bible was
                              good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!

                              And anyway, we all know that in Hollywood the good guys speak American, the bad
                              guys speak Brit.

                               --
                              Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...

                              >From: Niels Peter Lemche <npl@...>
                              >To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                              >Sent: Tue, August 30, 2011 8:25:15 AM
                              >Subject: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book

                              >Well, maybe not exactly, but implied by the narrative logic of the primeval
                              >history: Adam with a play on adama, Eve with another on Havva and haja, Qain
                              >with an outspoken one on qana, Abel, simply hevel. Eve's outburst when giving
                              >birth to Qain would make little sense without this implied conclusion.
                              >
                              >So it is a safe guess that Adam spoke Hebrew, as safe as saying that there was
                              >an Adam speaking Hebrew -- not in the fairy tales but in the real world. As true
                              >
                              >that in the universe everybody around will converse in English, according to
                              >Hollywood logic.
                              >
                              >Niels Peter Lemche
                              >
                              >-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                              >Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Peter T.
                              >Daniels
                              >Sendt: den 30 augusti 2011 13:51
                              >Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                              >Emne: Re: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book
                              >
                              >I don't see how the story of Babel can be interpreted as stating that Hebrew was
                              >
                              >
                              >the Adamic language! When the tongues were confounded because of inappropriate
                              >behavior, no one could understand anyone else, and no one person would have been
                              >
                              >
                              >given the right to boast that he or she spoke the original language!
                              >
                              >And anyway we have the word of no less than Gregory, the Pope in Rome, that the


                              >language of Heaven was English: non Angli, sed angeli!--
                              >Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
                              >
                              >>
                              >>From: Niels Peter Lemche <npl@...>
                              >>To: "ANE-2@yahoogroups.com" <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
                              >>Sent: Tue, August 30, 2011 2:08:11 AM
                              >>Subject: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book
                              >>
                              >> 
                              >>Does it all not remind us of Herodotus' story about how the Greeks found out
                              >>that Pelasgian is the oldest language in the world, and not Greek what they had
                              >
                              >
                              >>hoped for.
                              >>
                              >>And saying that Adam and Eve spoke Swedish will call upon us the anger of the
                              >>evangelicals, who of course say that they spoke Hebrew, i.e., Biblical Hebrew.
                              >>
                              >>That Danish was around is commonly "known. Think of the tribe of Dan! And
                              >>Danuna! They must have been around
                              >>
                              >>Niels Peter Lemche
                            • Trudy Kawami
                              Ohhh this is getting good - spanking no less! After all the travails of this summer we need hearty laughs. Trudy S. Kawami, PhD Director of Research Arthur M.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 30, 2011
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                                Ohhh this is getting good - spanking no less! After all the travails of this summer we need hearty laughs.

                                Trudy S. Kawami, PhD
                                Director of Research
                                Arthur M. Sackler Foundation
                                461 East 57th Street
                                New York, NY 10022
                                212-980-5400 X25
                                www.arthurmsacklerfdn.org

                                From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Niels Peter Lemche
                                Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 9:22 AM
                                To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: VS: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book




                                -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                                Fra: Niels Peter Lemche
                                Sendt: den 30 augusti 2011 15:20
                                Til: 'Peter T. Daniels'
                                Emne: SV: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book

                                He he, here I got you. Jesus of course spoke Swedish, like Adam. Think of the Greatest Story where they needed a tall blond and blue eyed Swede to play him. Of course the Germans believed him to be Philistine, i.e. Arian, and then his Bible would not be King James but Der Lutherbibel!

                                Dear Daniel, I believe that the two of us are in for a spanking by my co-moderators!

                                Niels Peter Lemche

                                -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                                Fra: Peter T. Daniels [mailto:grammatim@...<mailto:grammatim%40verizon.net>]
                                Sendt: den 30 augusti 2011 14:33
                                Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                                Emne: Re: SV: SV: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book

                                We know that God speaks Hebrew (cf. Shahn, Alphabet of Creation). If Adam spoke
                                Hebrew, why would He have had to bring him all the creatures on earth (obviously
                                that doesn't just mean "animals," as in modern English, but each individual
                                created thing) to find out what he would call them?

                                Wow, that must have taken a long time.

                                Don't give me this fancy philological whoop-de-doo. If the King James Bible was
                                good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!

                                And anyway, we all know that in Hollywood the good guys speak American, the bad
                                guys speak Brit.

                                --
                                Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...<mailto:grammatim%40verizon.net>



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • George Athas
                                I seem to remember seeing a medieval spanking paddle made of silver in the Medieval Torture Museum in Rothenberg, Germany. It had a lovely design of David
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 30, 2011
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                                  I seem to remember seeing a medieval 'spanking' paddle made of silver in the Medieval Torture Museum in Rothenberg, Germany. It had a lovely design of David slaying Goliath etched into one side. Must have left a nice imprint on the spankee.


                                  GEORGE ATHAS
                                  Director of Postgraduate Studies,
                                  Moore Theological College (moore.edu.au)
                                  Sydney, Australia



                                  From: Trudy Kawami <tkawami@...<mailto:tkawami@...>>
                                  Reply-To: ANE-2 <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>>
                                  Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:40:21 +0000
                                  To: ANE-2 <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>>
                                  Subject: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book



                                  Ohhh this is getting good - spanking no less! After all the travails of this summer we need hearty laughs.

                                  Trudy S. Kawami, PhD
                                  Director of Research
                                  Arthur M. Sackler Foundation
                                  461 East 57th Street
                                  New York, NY 10022
                                  212-980-5400 X25
                                  www.arthurmsacklerfdn.org




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Trudy Kawami
                                  We have traveled far from the initial topic, much to the enjoyment of many, but I think we need to bring this - or at least all new posts, back to the general
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 31, 2011
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                                    We have traveled far from the initial topic, much to the enjoyment of many, but I think we need to bring this - or at least all new posts, back to the general purpose of this list, the Ancient Near East. That said, an inquiry into the Sumerian terms for spanking, for instance, would be appropriate provided it is accompanied by a full signature as our protocols require. :)

                                    Trudy S. Kawami, PhD
                                    Director of Research
                                    Arthur M. Sackler Foundation
                                    461 East 57th Street
                                    New York, NY 10022
                                    212-980-5400 X25
                                    www.arthurmsacklerfdn.org

                                    From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Athas
                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 1:41 AM
                                    To: ANE-2
                                    Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: unfamiliar decipherment book



                                    I seem to remember seeing a medieval 'spanking' paddle made of silver in the Medieval Torture Museum in Rothenberg, Germany. It had a lovely design of David slaying Goliath etched into one side. Must have left a nice imprint on the spankee.

                                    GEORGE ATHAS
                                    Director of Postgraduate Studies,
                                    Moore Theological College (moore.edu.au)
                                    Sydney, Australia




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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