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Babylonian calendar converter

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  • Gent, R.H. van (Rob)
    Hi, I have recently developed a web-application for converting Babylonian calendar dates into Julian calendar dates at
    Message 1 of 5 , May 16 5:07 AM
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      Hi,

      I have recently developed a web-application for converting Babylonian
      calendar dates into Julian calendar dates at

      http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/babylon/babycal.htm

      which some list members may find useful.

      At the moment it is strictly based on the well-known conversion tables
      of Parker & Dubberstein (1956) but in the near future I hope to extend
      it further to earlier years, using modern algorithms for the computation
      of first lunar crescent visibility, and also to correct for the known
      errors in the Parker & Dubberstein tables.

      Rob H. van Gent
      Instutute for History & Foundations of Science
      Utrecht University
    • Robert M Whiting
      ... Thanks for this. I have added a link to your page in the ANE-2 Links section on the group s home page: It is
      Message 2 of 5 , May 16 5:26 AM
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        On Mon, 16 May 2011, Gent, R.H. van (Rob) wrote:

        > Hi,
        >
        > I have recently developed a web-application for converting Babylonian
        > calendar dates into Julian calendar dates at
        >
        > http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/babylon/babycal.htm
        >
        > which some list members may find useful.
        >
        > At the moment it is strictly based on the well-known conversion tables
        > of Parker & Dubberstein (1956) but in the near future I hope to extend
        > it further to earlier years, using modern algorithms for the computation
        > of first lunar crescent visibility, and also to correct for the known
        > errors in the Parker & Dubberstein tables.

        Thanks for this. I have added a link to your page in the ANE-2 Links
        section on the group's home page:

        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ANE-2/links>

        It is in the section Chronolgy --> Calendars -- General Information.

        Bob Whiting
        whiting@...
      • Ian Onvlee
        Hi Bob, I like your neat webpage with the calendar converter and await eagerly your refined version. We do indeed get erroneous results outside the stated
        Message 3 of 5 , May 16 2:13 PM
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          Hi Bob,

          I like your neat webpage with the calendar converter and await eagerly your
          refined version. We do indeed get erroneous results outside the stated
          timeframe. For instance, when going to 16 August 586 BC (-585), which is indeed
          a Thursday, and from noon that day until the next day is also correctly Julian
          day 1507614, it gives the Babylonian date 9 V -274 instead of correctly 10 V
          (mentioned in Jeremiah 52:12). Going to 31 March 561 (-560) it gives the
          Babylonian date 25 XII instead of correctly 27 XII (mentioned in 2 Kings 25:27).
           

          In the year 586 BC the first day of the Babylonian Fifth month began at sunset
          Tuesday 7 August and ended at sunset Wednesday 8-August (cf. Parker &
          Dubberstein, Babylonian Chronology 626 B.C.-A.D. 75, Brown University Press,
          1956, p. 28). Babylonian 7-V and 10-V therefore fell on 13-14 August
          on Monday-Tuesday and on 16-17 August on Thursday-Friday, respectively.

           
          I have checked the lunar phases on these dates with the professional
          astronomical program Voyager 4 and these Babylonian dates I mention are
          astronomically entirely correct. I sure hope you can refine your calculator for
          this early period very soon, grom at least 590 BConward when the Babylonian
          calendar had been stabilized. Until then your calculator will alas not be useful
          in assisting discussions on early Babylonian and/or Biblical dates. One problem
          that may arrise now, is that some people may unwittingly use your calculator as
          some kind of solid reference and proof, and will thus confusingly bring
          incorrect dates into the discussions on various community sites despite your
          very clear comment about erroneous results. Therefore, I suggest you mention
          these and perhaps other known dates to be erroneous when using the calculator
          separately on your webpage, so that people are already informed about the
          correct dates when attempting to look for them with the calculator.
           
          Ian Onvlee
          Holland,Den Haag




          ________________________________
          From: Robert M Whiting <whiting@...>
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 2:26:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Babylonian calendar converter

           
          On Mon, 16 May 2011, Gent, R.H. van (Rob) wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > I have recently developed a web-application for converting Babylonian
          > calendar dates into Julian calendar dates at
          >
          > http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/babylon/babycal.htm
          >
          > which some list members may find useful.
          >
          > At the moment it is strictly based on the well-known conversion tables
          > of Parker & Dubberstein (1956) but in the near future I hope to extend
          > it further to earlier years, using modern algorithms for the computation
          > of first lunar crescent visibility, and also to correct for the known
          > errors in the Parker & Dubberstein tables.

          Thanks for this. I have added a link to your page in the ANE-2 Links
          section on the group's home page:

          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ANE-2/links>

          It is in the section Chronolgy --> Calendars -- General Information.

          Bob Whiting
          whiting@...



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ian Onvlee
          Hi Bob, I like your neat webpage with the calendar converter and await eagerly your refined version. We do indeed get erroneous results outside the stated
          Message 4 of 5 , May 17 8:48 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Bob,

            I like your neat webpage with the calendar converter and await eagerly your
            refined version. We do indeed get erroneous results outside the stated
            timeframe. For instance, when going to 16 August 586 BC (-585), which is indeed
            a Thursday, and from noon that day until the next day is also correctly Julian
            day 1507614, it gives the Babylonian date 9 V -274 instead of correctly 10 V
            (mentioned in Jeremiah 52:12). Going to 31 March 561 (-560) it gives the
            Babylonian date 25 XII instead of correctly 27 XII (mentioned in 2 Kings 25:27).

             

            In the year 586 BC the first day of the Babylonian Fifth month began at sunset
            Tuesday 7 August and ended at sunset Wednesday 8-August (cf. Parker &
            Dubberstein, Babylonian Chronology 626 B.C.-A.D. 75, Brown University Press,
            1956, p. 28). Babylonian 7-V and 10-V therefore fell on 13-14 August
            on Monday-Tuesday and on 16-17 August on Thursday-Friday, respectively.


             
            I have checked the lunar phases on these dates with the professional
            astronomical program Voyager 4 and these Babylonian dates I mention are
            astronomically entirely correct. I sure hope you can refine your calculator for
            this early period very soon, grom at least 590 BConward when the Babylonian
            calendar had been stabilized. Until then your calculator will alas not be useful
            in assisting discussions on early Babylonian and/or Biblical dates. One problem
            that may arrise now, is that some people may unwittingly use your calculator as
            some kind of solid reference and proof, and will thus confusingly bring
            incorrect dates into the discussions on various community sites despite your
            very clear comment about erroneous results. Therefore, I suggest you mention
            these and perhaps other known dates to be erroneous when using the calculator
            separately on your webpage, so that people are already informed about the
            correct dates when attempting to look for them with the calculator.
             
            Ian Onvlee
            Holland, Den Haag







            ________________________________
            From: Robert M Whiting <whiting@...>
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 2:26:54 PM
            Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Babylonian calendar converter

             
            On Mon, 16 May 2011, Gent, R.H. van (Rob) wrote:

            > Hi,
            >
            > I have recently developed a web-application for converting Babylonian
            > calendar dates into Julian calendar dates at
            >
            > http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/babylon/babycal.htm
            >
            > which some list members may find useful.
            >
            > At the moment it is strictly based on the well-known conversion tables
            > of Parker & Dubberstein (1956) but in the near future I hope to extend
            > it further to earlier years, using modern algorithms for the computation
            > of first lunar crescent visibility, and also to correct for the known
            > errors in the Parker & Dubberstein tables.

            Thanks for this. I have added a link to your page in the ANE-2 Links
            section on the group's home page:

            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ANE-2/links>

            It is in the section Chronolgy --> Calendars -- General Information.

            Bob Whiting
            whiting@...



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gent, R.H. van (Rob)
            Dear Ian, Thank you for your interest in my calendar converter. Please note that at the moment my converter only duplicates the Parker & Dubberstein (PD)
            Message 5 of 5 , May 17 9:39 AM
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              Dear Ian,

              Thank you for your interest in my calendar converter.

              Please note that at the moment my converter only duplicates the Parker & Dubberstein (PD) tables which were (largely) based on astronomically dated cuneiform tablets - not on Biblical sources.

              My revised version will not introduce much changes during the period covered by the PD tables.

              Some months may begin a day earlier or later (resulting from improved methods for computing the first visibility of the lunar crescent) and in a few years the month sequences will also change (due to erroneously assigned intercalary months by PD).

              As for your concern that my calendar converter will confuse possible users, it nowhere claims to give indisputable results. The source on which it is based is clearly stated and users are warned of its current limitations.

              Best wishes,

              Rob van Gent
              Utrecht University

              -----Original Message-----
              From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Onvlee
              Sent: 16 May 2011 23:14
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Babylonian calendar converter

              Hi Bob,

              I like your neat webpage with the calendar converter and await eagerly your refined version. We do indeed get erroneous results outside the stated timeframe. For instance, when going to 16 August 586 BC (-585), which is indeed a Thursday, and from noon that day until the next day is also correctly Julian day 1507614, it gives the Babylonian date 9 V -274 instead of correctly 10 V (mentioned in Jeremiah 52:12). Going to 31 March 561 (-560) it gives the Babylonian date 25 XII instead of correctly 27 XII (mentioned in 2 Kings 25:27).
               

              In the year 586 BC the first day of the Babylonian Fifth month began at sunset Tuesday 7 August and ended at sunset Wednesday 8-August (cf. Parker & Dubberstein, Babylonian Chronology 626 B.C.-A.D. 75, Brown University Press, 1956, p. 28). Babylonian 7-V and 10-V therefore fell on 13-14 August on Monday-Tuesday and on 16-17 August on Thursday-Friday, respectively.

               
              I have checked the lunar phases on these dates with the professional astronomical program Voyager 4 and these Babylonian dates I mention are astronomically entirely correct. I sure hope you can refine your calculator for this early period very soon, grom at least 590 BConward when the Babylonian calendar had been stabilized. Until then your calculator will alas not be useful in assisting discussions on early Babylonian and/or Biblical dates. One problem that may arrise now, is that some people may unwittingly use your calculator as some kind of solid reference and proof, and will thus confusingly bring incorrect dates into the discussions on various community sites despite your very clear comment about erroneous results. Therefore, I suggest you mention these and perhaps other known dates to be erroneous when using the calculator separately on your webpage, so that people are already informed about the correct dates when attempting to look for them with the calculator.
               
              Ian Onvlee
              Holland,Den Haag




              ________________________________
              From: Robert M Whiting <whiting@...>
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 2:26:54 PM
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Babylonian calendar converter

               
              On Mon, 16 May 2011, Gent, R.H. van (Rob) wrote:

              > Hi,
              >
              > I have recently developed a web-application for converting Babylonian
              > calendar dates into Julian calendar dates at
              >
              > http://www.phys.uu.nl/~vgent/babylon/babycal.htm
              >
              > which some list members may find useful.
              >
              > At the moment it is strictly based on the well-known conversion tables
              > of Parker & Dubberstein (1956) but in the near future I hope to extend
              > it further to earlier years, using modern algorithms for the
              > computation of first lunar crescent visibility, and also to correct
              > for the known errors in the Parker & Dubberstein tables.

              Thanks for this. I have added a link to your page in the ANE-2 Links section on the group's home page:

              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ANE-2/links>

              It is in the section Chronolgy --> Calendars -- General Information.

              Bob Whiting
              whiting@...



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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