Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ANE-2] Re: Lead Codices

Expand Messages
  • Peter T. Daniels
    Of course the report is copyrighted (and not by virtue of bearing the label copyright anywhere on it). The information contained within the report is not
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 5, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Of course the report is copyrighted (and not by virtue of bearing the label
      "copyright" anywhere on it).

      The information contained within the report is not subject to copyright or to
      copyright restrictions.
       --
      Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...
      Jersey City

      From: "a8oct@..." <a8oct@...>
      >To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Tue, April 5, 2011 10:58:22 AM
      >Subject: [ANE-2] Re: Lead Codices
      >

      >In reply to Peter Daniels, the metallurgical work at Oxford was commissioned by
      >me and the report bears the label copyright on the cover.
      >
      >Robert Feather, London
      >
      >--- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> What does it mean to say that the results of a metallurgical analysis are
      >> "copyrighted"?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Trudy Kawami
      What is interesting in this exchange of comments is the frequency of words like believe, believing , would have been (interesting conditional there),
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 6, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        What is interesting in this exchange of comments is the frequency of words like "believe," "believing", "would have been" (interesting conditional there), "have been told" and similar terms. There is no objective description of the corrosion products, no statement of the parameters of the tests, no mention of XRF analysis or any other commonly used & accepted analytical procedure for assessing the "life" of a piece of metal. Instead we appear to have scholars of religion and language who couldn't tell cast metal from hammered (let alone copper alloy from lead) hoping/believing something is authentic - bad science (& bad logic). Add to this the approach of the Easter season, you can see the red flags of super-hype flying.
        Willing suspension of dis-belief is fine for the theater, but really inappropriate in scholarship.

        Trudy S. Kawami, PhD
        Director of Research
        Arthur M. Sackler Foundation
        461 East 57th Street
        New York, NY 10022
        212-980-5400 X25
        www.arthurmsacklerfdn.org

        From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of a8oct@...
        Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:51 AM
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ANE-2] Re: Lead Codices



        Dear Russell,
        I will try and clarify.
        1. I do not know what Elkington showed to Peter Thonemann, as I severed contact with him, very early on and warned Margaret Barker to be wary. Her expertise is not in question but I believe she has been misled.
        2. I have been told by Hassan Saeda that they were given to him by his grandfather and came from near the Israel/Jordan border.
        3. Yes this item is part of the cache and I have seen it. Whether it was copied from the museum, or the original funery display I cannot say. But, if the material is genuine, and the jury is still out on that, I date them to the 2nd century Bar Kochbar period so it would have been accessible to the original makers.
        4. Philip Davies is quoted in the newspapers and on the BBC as believing the material is authentic and very early Christian in origin. I do not know if he was correctly quoted. I have had nothing to do with the group Elkington consulted (apart from talking with Margaret Barker), so I do not know if Professor Davies has examined actual samples - although I would doubt it- he has probably only seen photographs of this particular item. They did, it appears have access to actual samples of some of the sheets.

        Hope this helps.
        Robert Feather, London




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jack Kilmon
        This appears to be a case where someone with a BA in art is promoted to an archaeologist and a religious archaeologist and an Egyptologist by the press.
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 6, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          This appears to be a case where someone with a BA in art is promoted to an
          "archaeologist" and a "religious archaeologist" and an "Egyptologist" by the
          press. No one with any credentialed expertise in any of the disciplines
          required to analyze these things, Semitists, materials analysts,
          paleographers, or a real, genuine, fedora wearing archaeologist, has been
          asked on the "team" headed by a guy who analyzes things through earth's
          vibrations. They appear to me, from the few pictures I have seen, to be a
          mosaic harvested from epigraphy and ancient coinage. I am sure the book and
          the film, probably already under contract with Simcha, will "expose" a
          conspiracy among scholars to suppress the the "greatest discovery since the
          Dead Sea Scrolls."

          Jack Kilmon
          San Antonio, TX

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Trudy Kawami
          Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 1:00 PM
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ANE-2] Re: Lead Codices

          What is interesting in this exchange of comments is the frequency of words
          like "believe," "believing", "would have been" (interesting conditional
          there), "have been told" and similar terms. There is no objective
          description of the corrosion products, no statement of the parameters of the
          tests, no mention of XRF analysis or any other commonly used & accepted
          analytical procedure for assessing the "life" of a piece of metal. Instead
          we appear to have scholars of religion and language who couldn't tell cast
          metal from hammered (let alone copper alloy from lead) hoping/believing
          something is authentic - bad science (& bad logic). Add to this the
          approach of the Easter season, you can see the red flags of super-hype
          flying.
          Willing suspension of dis-belief is fine for the theater, but really
          inappropriate in scholarship.

          Trudy S. Kawami, PhD
          Director of Research
          Arthur M. Sackler Foundation
          461 East 57th Street
          New York, NY 10022
          212-980-5400 X25
          www.arthurmsacklerfdn.org

          From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          a8oct@...
          Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:51 AM
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ANE-2] Re: Lead Codices



          Dear Russell,
          I will try and clarify.
          1. I do not know what Elkington showed to Peter Thonemann, as I severed
          contact with him, very early on and warned Margaret Barker to be wary. Her
          expertise is not in question but I believe she has been misled.
          2. I have been told by Hassan Saeda that they were given to him by his
          grandfather and came from near the Israel/Jordan border.
          3. Yes this item is part of the cache and I have seen it. Whether it was
          copied from the museum, or the original funery display I cannot say. But, if
          the material is genuine, and the jury is still out on that, I date them to
          the 2nd century Bar Kochbar period so it would have been accessible to the
          original makers.
          4. Philip Davies is quoted in the newspapers and on the BBC as believing the
          material is authentic and very early Christian in origin. I do not know if
          he was correctly quoted. I have had nothing to do with the group Elkington
          consulted (apart from talking with Margaret Barker), so I do not know if
          Professor Davies has examined actual samples - although I would doubt it- he
          has probably only seen photographs of this particular item. They did, it
          appears have access to actual samples of some of the sheets.

          Hope this helps.
          Robert Feather, London




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.