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Re: [ANE-2] Question about sacrifice

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  • Lampros F. Kallenos
    Is the Mycenean case relevant to the question? Yannis HAMILAKIS, Eleni KONSOLAKI Pigs for the Gods. Burnt Animal Sacrifices As Embodied Rituals At A Mycenaean
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 7, 2011
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      Is the Mycenean case relevant to the question?


      Yannis HAMILAKIS, Eleni KONSOLAKI
      Pigs for the Gods. Burnt Animal Sacrifices As Embodied
      Rituals At A Mycenaean Sanctuary.
      Oxford Journal of Archaeology, 23(2) 2004 135–151
      http://corinth.sas.upenn.edu/dgr/sanctuaries/methana_aykon_animals.pdf


      Classics Doctoral Student Finds Bones that Prove Homer was
      Right About Sacrifices
      Date: Jan. 20, 2001
      http://www.uc.edu/news/burnt.htm


      Classics Doctoral Student Finds Bones That Prove Homer Was
      Right About Sacrifices
      Source: University Of Cincinnati
      Date: 2001-01-23
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/01/010123074805.htm



      _____________________________
      Λάμπρος Φ. Καλλένος
      Ιδάλιον, Λευκωσία
      Κύπρος
      --
    • David Hall
      Liz, See:  Religious Texts from Ugarit, by N. Wyatt, 2nd edition, 2002, Sheffield Press. From tablet KTU 1.119 regarding religious duties during certain
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 8, 2011
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        Liz,

        See:  Religious Texts from Ugarit, by N. Wyatt, 2nd edition, 2002, Sheffield
        Press.

        From tablet KTU 1.119 regarding religious duties during certain months:

        pg. 418   "...in the house of sacrifice he will slaughter; and there shall be
        burnt in the altar room of Baal of Ugarit a lamb and a feral pigeon..."

        There are other recent sources available as well.  These sources are not easy to
        locate and few scholars are competent to comment in depth about the Ugaritic
        religious rituals.  Multiple scholars insisted there were "burnt offerings."

        David Q. Hall 
        Falls Church, Virginia

         



        ________________________________
        From: Lisbeth S. Fried <lizfried@...>
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 12:59:13 PM
        Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Question about sacrifice

         
        Dear David,

        Thank you very much for this interesting report.

        Regarding the references in the Ugaritic material, I think the references are
        from the Aqht myth.

        I. 185 dbḥ ilm yšʿly , the sacrifice to the gods he offered up, which doesn’t
        say anything about how it was done, unfortunately.

        I think it’s right tho that in Egypt and Babylon the food was cooked in kitchens
        on stoves or in ovens, and then presented.

        Liz

        Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.
        Ann Arbor, MI 48104
        www.lizfried.com <http://www.lizfried.com/>

        _____

        From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
        Hall
        Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:41 PM
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Question about sacrifice

        Hello Liz,

        The horned altar was in use since Minoan times on Santorini destroyed by
        volcanic eruption as early as the MBA. I have read reports of altars on Crete
        with burnt bones in use as early as Minoan times. I googled (google.com not
        google.co.uk) search words to see if someone could pick up any information about

        "Minoan altars burnt bones" and found there are scattered references
        online. Altars and burnt bones on Greek islands north of Crete were reported in
        various archaeological publications.

        Those who have worked translating the tablets of Ugarit insisted the people at
        Ras Shamra used "burnt offerings." This may imply roasting rather than boiling
        meat in a cooking pot. I am not an expert on the translation of Ugarit tablets,
        but some claimed phrases at Ugarit were parallel to Bible phrases. Ugarit was
        destroyed in the first quarter of the 12th century BC before the Bible was
        written.

        Leonard Woolley mentioned a kitchen in the ziggurat at Ur where the food of the
        gods was cooked.

        An altar with an ash pile next to it was reported by Haines at Nippur, but the
        dating of the altar is not certain. This reference was from the unpublished
        Nippur field reports at the U. of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology
        and Anthropology Archives in Philadelphia.

        The Egyptians offered all sorts of food offerings. As far as I know they have
        not been found to have made burnt offerings on altars, but did use incense in
        their temples. Hatshetsup sent a naval expedition to acquire incense near the
        Horn of Africa.

        David Q. Hall
        Falls Church, Virginia

        ________________________________
        From: Lisbeth S. Fried <lizfried@... <mailto:lizfried%40umich.edu> >
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, February 4, 2011 10:26:37 AM
        Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Question about sacrifice

        Hi Graham,

        That's a really good question, the author (maddingly) doesn't address the
        issue. I know that they also used animal sacrifice, but I'd have to assume
        that the animal was cooked on a stove or something so the carcass didn't
        come in contact with the fire. I mean the people weren't/aren't vegetarians,
        they ate/eat meat.

        I learned from a friend of mine that according to Homer the Greeks roasted
        their sacrifices on spits in a fire. My friend, Eric Orlin, says that they
        were influenced by Canaanite practice, not vice versa, but I don't know how
        he knows that.

        In any case, if the Egyptians cooked their sacrifices on a stove and then
        presented it to the gods, then that would explain why meat sacrifice was
        halted only at the Judean temple at Elephantine and not at the temple of
        Khnum, etc.

        Liz

        Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.
        Visitng Scholar
        Department of Near Eastern Studies
        and the Frankel Center for Judaic Studies
        University of Michigan
        202 S. Thayer -- Room 4111
        Ann Arbor, MI 48104
        www.lizfried.com <http://www.lizfried.com/>

        _____

        From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
        Graham Hagens
        Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:46 PM
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Question about sacrifice

        Liz: what does the author say about the sacrificial animal immolation
        carried out by Zoroastrians themselves? From what I have read there seems
        to be some uncertainty about those practices.

        Graham Hagens
        Hamilton, ON

        --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Lisbeth S. Fried <lizfried@...
        <mailto:lizfried%40umich.edu>

        <mailto:lizfried%40umich.edu> > wrote:

        From: Lisbeth S. Fried <lizfried@... <mailto:lizfried%40umich.edu>
        <mailto:lizfried%40umich.edu> >
        Subject: [ANE-2] Question about sacrifice
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>

        Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 12:28 PM

        Dear All,

        I'm reading an article now which suggests that the whole burnt offering in
        the temple of YHW at Elephantine was disallowed not because of any problem
        with it by the priests of YHWH in Jerusalem who only wanted worship there,
        but because of the Zoroastrian problem of contaminating fire with a dead
        animal.

        My question is, how was meat presented to the gods of Egypt, Babylon, Asia
        Minor etc? Were these meats cooked on top of a stove, so to speak, and not
        put directly in contact with the fire? Was Judah unique in this regard?

        Thanks for your help,

        Liz

        Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.
        Department of Near Eastern Studies
        and the Frankel Center for Judaic Studies
        University of Michigan
        202 S. Thayer -- Room 4111
        Ann Arbor, MI 48104
        www.lizfried.com <http://www.lizfried.com/>

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