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SV: deportation and repatriation

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  • Thomas L. Thompson
    Yes, Assurbanipal II in one deportation text (ANET?) refers to bringing the people of a town in Lebanon back to their homes and I believe there are a few
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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      Yes, Assurbanipal II in one "deportation" text (ANET?) refers to bringing the people of a town in Lebanon back to their homes and I believe there are a few comparable texts.
      Thomas



      Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

      Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people, apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have brought it up here).

      I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of human beings?

      Niels Peter Lemche
    • Thomas L. Thompson
      Although the motifs are variant, one might also think of Esarhaddon s biography in which Babylon is punished by the gods with a (the?) flood and the people
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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        Although the motifs are variant, one might also think of Esarhaddon's "biography" in which Babylon is punished by the gods with a (the?) flood and the people exiled. After a serendipitous 11 years (reversing a divinely cursed exile of 70 years with the help of cuneiform's wonderful orthography), Esarhaddon is called by the gods to reunite people, gods and king.
        Thomas

        Thomas L Thompson
        Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen

        ________________________________________
        Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Thomas L. Thompson [tlt@...]
        Sendt: 16. august 2010 14:42
        Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Emne: [ANE-2] SV: deportation and repatriation

        Yes, Assurbanipal II in one "deportation" text (ANET?) refers to bringing the people of a town in Lebanon back to their homes and I believe there are a few comparable texts.
        Thomas



        Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

        Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people, apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have brought it up here).

        I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of human beings?

        Niels Peter Lemche




        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Michael Banyai
        Dear Niels Peter, I think we have first to define the nature of the deportation and repatriation according to the Olt Testament etc. While the deportation
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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          Dear Niels Peter,



          I think we have first to define the nature of the deportation and repatriation according to the Olt Testament etc. While the deportation might have been a rather large scale event, the repatriation concerned just the Israelite elites and their households. It is not a one to one reversion of the deportation.



          Once we have accepted this formula, than we can compare it for example with the story of Idrimi, returning from exile with people of his land he managed to rally around himself in Ammija with the support of the habiru-people to Aleppo. Maybe no wonder the mention of a Halap of the Habiru.



          Regards,



          Michael Banyai

          Oberursel



          Von: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von Niels Peter Lemche
          Gesendet: Montag, 16. August 2010 14:36
          An: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Betreff: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation





          Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

          Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people, apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have brought it up here).

          I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of human beings?

          Niels Peter Lemche





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • victor avigdor hurowitz
          How about the Cyrus Cylinder? In addition to repatriating the abducted gods to their sanctuary Cyrus says (following Michalowski s translation in Chavalas The
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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            How about the Cyrus Cylinder? In addition to repatriating the abducted
            gods to
            their sanctuary Cyrus says (following Michalowski's translation in
            Chavalas The Ancient Near East) "I returned to these sanctuaries...the
            images that had been in them...I also gathered all their people and
            returned to them their habitations" The Akkadian on that last bit is
            (following H.P. Shaudig)kullat ni$e$unu upahhiramma uter dadmi$un (line
            32).
            Best
            Victor Hurowitz
            BGU



            On Mon, 16 Aug 2010, Niels Peter Lemche wrote:

            > �
            >
            > Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:
            >
            > Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people,
            > apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the
            > historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have
            > brought it up here).
            >
            > I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of
            > human beings?
            >
            > Niels Peter Lemche
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Banyai
            The 70 years of exile, Thomas is speaking about, appear also in the prophecy of Isaiah 23:15 and 17 about Tyre. This seems to be an important Mesopotamian
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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              The 70 years of exile, Thomas is speaking about, appear also in the prophecy
              of Isaiah 23:15 and 17 about Tyre. This seems to be an important
              Mesopotamian topos, first appearing in biblical works following contacts
              with Assyria. It may have been a current curse in standard contracts with
              Assyria by that time, thus being the real consequence of breaking a contract
              closed with Assyria.



              Thus is the later prophecy of Jeremiah 29:10, 25:11-12 concerning the 70
              year of banishment nothing else than rendering the exact provisions of the
              contract between Judah and Babylon, one of its copies being deposed in the
              temple of Jerusalem. Of course would the punishment come from Yahweh, since
              he is the one to implement the curses of the contract on Judean side. The
              attempts to hinder the accession of Jeremiah to the temple are to be seen in
              this context. Yahweh, as the one to punish Judah for breaking the contract,
              would return his grace to his people after punishing it, as according to the
              contract.



              My father taught me to read attentively each time the lowercased text in a
              contract, for eventually hidden provisions.



              Regards,



              Michael Bányai

              Oberursel



              Von: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
              Thomas L. Thompson
              Gesendet: Montag, 16. August 2010 15:05
              An: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Betreff: [ANE-2] SV: deportation and repatriation





              Although the motifs are variant, one might also think of Esarhaddon's
              "biography" in which Babylon is punished by the gods with a (the?) flood and
              the people exiled. After a serendipitous 11 years (reversing a divinely
              cursed exile of 70 years with the help of cuneiform's wonderful
              orthography), Esarhaddon is called by the gods to reunite people, gods and
              king.
              Thomas

              Thomas L Thompson
              Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen

              ________________________________________
              Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
              [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> ] På vegne af
              Thomas L. Thompson [tlt@... <mailto:tlt%40teol.ku.dk> ]
              Sendt: 16. august 2010 14:42
              Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
              Emne: [ANE-2] SV: deportation and repatriation

              Yes, Assurbanipal II in one "deportation" text (ANET?) refers to bringing
              the people of a town in Lebanon back to their homes and I believe there are
              a few comparable texts.
              Thomas

              Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

              Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people,
              apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the
              historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have
              brought it up here).

              I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of
              human beings?

              Niels Peter Lemche

              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lisbeth S. Fried
              Dear Niels-Peter, This is from my commentary on Ezra-Nehemiah (forthcoming). The Jews were not the only community to return from Babylon to their ancestral
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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                Dear Niels-Peter,

                This is from my commentary on Ezra-Nehemiah (forthcoming).



                The Jews were not the only community to return from Babylon to
                their ancestral homeland under the Achaemenids. The 1926-27 excavations at
                Neirab, Syria, unearthed an archive of clay tablets dating from the reign of
                Nebuchadnezzar to the early years of Darius I (i.e., from 560 to 520 BCE)
                which recorded loans of barley and silver. The documents all refer to a
                people named the Neirabians, i.e., the people who lived in the city where
                the archive was found. Yet the places where the transactions occurred were
                in the vicinity of Nippur in Babylon. This was evidently the archive of a
                community of Syrians which had been exiled to Nippur under Nebuchadnezzar
                and which had been released to their own city in the beginning of Darius'
                reign (Eph'al 1978). As with the Jews, they had maintained a community
                identity in exile in Babylon for four decades, returning to their own city
                as soon as they were able.





                Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.

                Department of Near Eastern Studies

                and the Frankel Center for Judaic Studies

                University of Michigan

                202 S. Thayer -- Room 4111

                Ann Arbor, MI 48104

                www.lizfried.com <http://www.lizfried.com/>





                _____

                From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                Niels Peter Lemche
                Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:36 AM
                To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation





                Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

                Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people,
                apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the
                historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have
                brought it up here).

                I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of
                human beings?

                Niels Peter Lemche





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Niels Peter Lemche
                and you find evidence of such a return in the archaeological material from the Jerusalem area? Sorry, I have absolutely no confidence in Ezra/Nehemiah as a
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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                  and you find evidence of such a return in the archaeological material from the Jerusalem area?

                  Sorry, I have absolutely no confidence in Ezra/Nehemiah as a historical source.

                  Niels Peter Lemche



                  -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                  Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Lisbeth S. Fried
                  Sendt: den 16 augusti 2010 18:59
                  Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Emne: RE: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation

                  Dear Niels-Peter,

                  This is from my commentary on Ezra-Nehemiah (forthcoming).



                  The Jews were not the only community to return from Babylon to
                  their ancestral homeland under the Achaemenids. The 1926-27 excavations at
                  Neirab, Syria, unearthed an archive of clay tablets dating from the reign of
                  Nebuchadnezzar to the early years of Darius I (i.e., from 560 to 520 BCE)
                  which recorded loans of barley and silver. The documents all refer to a
                  people named the Neirabians, i.e., the people who lived in the city where
                  the archive was found. Yet the places where the transactions occurred were
                  in the vicinity of Nippur in Babylon. This was evidently the archive of a
                  community of Syrians which had been exiled to Nippur under Nebuchadnezzar
                  and which had been released to their own city in the beginning of Darius'
                  reign (Eph'al 1978). As with the Jews, they had maintained a community
                  identity in exile in Babylon for four decades, returning to their own city
                  as soon as they were able.





                  Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.

                  Department of Near Eastern Studies

                  and the Frankel Center for Judaic Studies

                  University of Michigan

                  202 S. Thayer -- Room 4111

                  Ann Arbor, MI 48104

                  www.lizfried.com <http://www.lizfried.com/>





                  _____

                  From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Niels Peter Lemche
                  Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:36 AM
                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation





                  Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

                  Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people,
                  apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the
                  historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have
                  brought it up here).

                  I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of
                  human beings?

                  Niels Peter Lemche





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Lisbeth S. Fried
                  Well, forget the last line of that paragraph then. I do think that an exile and return can be found in the archaeology of Judah and Jerusalem (Faust has a book
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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                    Well, forget the last line of that paragraph then.

                    I do think that an exile and return can be found in the archaeology of Judah
                    and Jerusalem (Faust has a book on the 6th century, forthcoming, which he
                    has permitted me to read), but I was responding to your query about other
                    returns.



                    Liz Fried





                    _____

                    From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    Niels Peter Lemche
                    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 1:31 PM
                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: SV: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation





                    and you find evidence of such a return in the archaeological material from
                    the Jerusalem area?

                    Sorry, I have absolutely no confidence in Ezra/Nehemiah as a historical
                    source.

                    Niels Peter Lemche



                    -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                    Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> ] På vegne af
                    Lisbeth S. Fried
                    Sendt: den 16 augusti 2010 18:59
                    Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Emne: RE: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation

                    Dear Niels-Peter,

                    This is from my commentary on Ezra-Nehemiah (forthcoming).



                    The Jews were not the only community to return from Babylon to
                    their ancestral homeland under the Achaemenids. The 1926-27 excavations at
                    Neirab, Syria, unearthed an archive of clay tablets dating from the reign of
                    Nebuchadnezzar to the early years of Darius I (i.e., from 560 to 520 BCE)
                    which recorded loans of barley and silver. The documents all refer to a
                    people named the Neirabians, i.e., the people who lived in the city where
                    the archive was found. Yet the places where the transactions occurred were
                    in the vicinity of Nippur in Babylon. This was evidently the archive of a
                    community of Syrians which had been exiled to Nippur under Nebuchadnezzar
                    and which had been released to their own city in the beginning of Darius'
                    reign (Eph'al 1978). As with the Jews, they had maintained a community
                    identity in exile in Babylon for four decades, returning to their own city
                    as soon as they were able.





                    Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.

                    Department of Near Eastern Studies

                    and the Frankel Center for Judaic Studies

                    University of Michigan

                    202 S. Thayer -- Room 4111

                    Ann Arbor, MI 48104

                    www.lizfried.com <http://www.lizfried.com/>





                    _____

                    From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
                    Of
                    Niels Peter Lemche
                    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:36 AM
                    To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation





                    Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

                    Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people,
                    apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the
                    historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have
                    brought it up here).

                    I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of
                    human beings?

                    Niels Peter Lemche





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Niels Peter Lemche
                    Dear Liz, may I suggest that we take this discussion to the biblical studies list where we have as eminar based on Ahn s forthcoming book on the exile. It is
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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                      Dear Liz,

                      may I suggest that we take this discussion to the biblical studies list where we have as eminar based on Ahn's forthcoming book on the exile. It is hardly a matter that suits this forum. I only asked for parallels. And sorry to all for my earlier mail. I forgot to check that it did not go to biblical studies.

                      Niels Peter Lemche



                      -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                      Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Niels Peter Lemche
                      Sendt: den 16 augusti 2010 19:31
                      Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      Emne: SV: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation

                      and you find evidence of such a return in the archaeological material from the Jerusalem area?

                      Sorry, I have absolutely no confidence in Ezra/Nehemiah as a historical source.

                      Niels Peter Lemche



                      -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                      Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Lisbeth S. Fried
                      Sendt: den 16 augusti 2010 18:59
                      Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      Emne: RE: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation

                      Dear Niels-Peter,

                      This is from my commentary on Ezra-Nehemiah (forthcoming).



                      The Jews were not the only community to return from Babylon to
                      their ancestral homeland under the Achaemenids. The 1926-27 excavations at
                      Neirab, Syria, unearthed an archive of clay tablets dating from the reign of
                      Nebuchadnezzar to the early years of Darius I (i.e., from 560 to 520 BCE)
                      which recorded loans of barley and silver. The documents all refer to a
                      people named the Neirabians, i.e., the people who lived in the city where
                      the archive was found. Yet the places where the transactions occurred were
                      in the vicinity of Nippur in Babylon. This was evidently the archive of a
                      community of Syrians which had been exiled to Nippur under Nebuchadnezzar
                      and which had been released to their own city in the beginning of Darius'
                      reign (Eph'al 1978). As with the Jews, they had maintained a community
                      identity in exile in Babylon for four decades, returning to their own city
                      as soon as they were able.





                      Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph.D.

                      Department of Near Eastern Studies

                      and the Frankel Center for Judaic Studies

                      University of Michigan

                      202 S. Thayer -- Room 4111

                      Ann Arbor, MI 48104

                      www.lizfried.com <http://www.lizfried.com/>





                      _____

                      From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      Niels Peter Lemche
                      Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:36 AM
                      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [ANE-2] deportation and repatriation





                      Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

                      Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people,
                      apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the
                      historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have
                      brought it up here).

                      I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of
                      human beings?

                      Niels Peter Lemche





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links





                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Niels Peter Lemche
                      As I said to Liz, Take this discussion to where it belongs: Biblical Studies. Discussions about biblical historicity are normally not welcome on this list. And
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 16, 2010
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                        As I said to Liz,

                        Take this discussion to where it belongs: Biblical Studies. Discussions about biblical historicity are normally not welcome on this list. And you are already involved in the discussion on biblical studies.

                        Niels Peter Lemche

                        -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                        Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Michael Banyai
                        Sendt: den 16 augusti 2010 18:29
                        Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                        Emne: AW: [ANE-2] SV: deportation and repatriation

                        The 70 years of exile, Thomas is speaking about, appear also in the prophecy
                        of Isaiah 23:15 and 17 about Tyre. This seems to be an important
                        Mesopotamian topos, first appearing in biblical works following contacts
                        with Assyria. It may have been a current curse in standard contracts with
                        Assyria by that time, thus being the real consequence of breaking a contract
                        closed with Assyria.



                        Thus is the later prophecy of Jeremiah 29:10, 25:11-12 concerning the 70
                        year of banishment nothing else than rendering the exact provisions of the
                        contract between Judah and Babylon, one of its copies being deposed in the
                        temple of Jerusalem. Of course would the punishment come from Yahweh, since
                        he is the one to implement the curses of the contract on Judean side. The
                        attempts to hinder the accession of Jeremiah to the temple are to be seen in
                        this context. Yahweh, as the one to punish Judah for breaking the contract,
                        would return his grace to his people after punishing it, as according to the
                        contract.



                        My father taught me to read attentively each time the lowercased text in a
                        contract, for eventually hidden provisions.



                        Regards,



                        Michael Bányai

                        Oberursel



                        Von: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
                        Thomas L. Thompson
                        Gesendet: Montag, 16. August 2010 15:05
                        An: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                        Betreff: [ANE-2] SV: deportation and repatriation





                        Although the motifs are variant, one might also think of Esarhaddon's
                        "biography" in which Babylon is punished by the gods with a (the?) flood and
                        the people exiled. After a serendipitous 11 years (reversing a divinely
                        cursed exile of 70 years with the help of cuneiform's wonderful
                        orthography), Esarhaddon is called by the gods to reunite people, gods and
                        king.
                        Thomas

                        Thomas L Thompson
                        Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen

                        ________________________________________
                        Fra: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                        [ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> ] På vegne af
                        Thomas L. Thompson [tlt@... <mailto:tlt%40teol.ku.dk> ]
                        Sendt: 16. august 2010 14:42
                        Til: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
                        Emne: [ANE-2] SV: deportation and repatriation

                        Yes, Assurbanipal II in one "deportation" text (ANET?) refers to bringing
                        the people of a town in Lebanon back to their homes and I believe there are
                        a few comparable texts.
                        Thomas

                        Because of a discussion -- a seminar -- on the Biblical Studies list:

                        Do we have other examples from the ANE of repatriation of deported people,
                        apart from the one in the Old Testament? (this is not a discussion about the
                        historicity of that event--if that had been the case, I would not have
                        brought it up here).

                        I know of repatriation of abducted gods from Babylonian tradition, but of
                        human beings?

                        Niels Peter Lemche

                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Francesco Brighenti
                        ... Cf. also the case of the Persian Empire. Foreign workers, called _kurtash_, who were sometimes slaves, sometimes free people working for wages, and
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 17, 2010
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                          --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Banyai" <michael.banyai@...> wrote:

                          > The 70 years of exile, Thomas is speaking about, appear also in
                          > the prophecy of Isaiah 23:15 and 17 about Tyre. This seems to be
                          > an important Mesopotamian topos, first appearing in biblical works
                          > following contacts with Assyria. It may have been a current curse
                          > in standard contracts with Assyria by that time, thus being the
                          > real consequence of breaking a contract closed with Assyria.

                          Cf. also the case of the Persian Empire.

                          Foreign workers, called _kurtash_, who were sometimes slaves,
                          sometimes free people working for wages, and sometimes indentured
                          servants, were resettled by the Persians in different satrapies of
                          their empire. Other groups of foreig workers were settled in Babylonia by the Persians under the _hatru_ system, by virtue of which a community was allotted an area that it cultivated in family plots on condition of military service and payment of an annual tax.

                          Apart from the _kurtash_ and _hatru_ systems, the Achaemenids apparently resorted to deportation of entire foreign communities when these broke some kind of 'contract' made with them. This is evinced by the deportation of some (presumably numerically large) Greek communities to Bactria and Sogdiana -- which H.G. Rawlinson has termed as the "Siberia" of the Achaemenian Empire! -- inferred on the basis of the following sources:

                          * Herodotus (4.204) writes that the inhabitants of the city of Barca
                          in Cyrenaica were deported by Darius I to a village in Bactria that
                          was also named Barca.

                          * Herodotus (6.9) also mentions a threat made by the Persian
                          commanders to the inhabitants of Miletus at the culmination of the
                          Ionian Revolt before the battle of Lade (494 B.C.) that their
                          maidens would be deported to Bactria. This can be taken as a mere
                          suggestion that the Persians used to threaten their Greek enemies to
                          deport the population of their cities to the far eastern portions of
                          their empire, and we aren't told they really did this to the
                          Milesians; yet, this passage by Herodotus has its importance
                          inasmuch as it was written a few decades after the Persian Wars.

                          * Curtius (7.5.28-35) and Strabo (11.11.4) describe the episode of
                          Alexander's encounter with, and subsequent destruction of, the
                          alleged descendants of the Branchidae, a clan of Ionian priestly
                          functionaries attached to the sanctuary of Apollo at Didyma near
                          Miletus and relocated by the Persians in a settlement
                          between Bactria and Sogdiana (some scholars think it was half-way
                          between present-day Balkh and Samarkand). Curtius and Strabo's
                          common, earlier source is Callisthenes, Alexander's historian. W.W.
                          Tarn and other historians have dismissed this episode as an invention of Callisthenes', but it is possible that the Branchidae no less than the Barcaeans were deported by the Persians to Bactria-Sogdiana.

                          * There is another possible example of a historical deportation of
                          Greeks to Bactria by the Achaemenids: that of the inhabitants of the
                          city of Kariatas (mentioned in Strabo 11.11.4 as the place where
                          Callisthenes was arrested; Latin Cariatae), who like the Branchidae
                          were massacred by Alexander. According to F.L. Holt (_Alexander the
                          Great and Bactria: The Formation of a Greek Frontier in Central
                          Asia_, Brill Archive, 1988, p. 73, n. 94), they may have been the
                          descendants of Greeks from Caria in Asia Minor.

                          In sum, only the deportation of the Barcaeans to Bactria seems to be
                          warranted by near-contemporary souces (Herodotus), yet there are
                          indications (Curtius, Strabo) that other Greek communities were
                          deported by the Persian to Bactria or Sogdiana. Other such
                          deportations could have simply escaped the notice of ancient
                          historians.

                          Kindest regards,

                          Francesco Brighenti
                          Venice, Italy
                        • Francesco Brighenti
                          ... OK, this apparently settles the question. I didn t know Egypt is never mentioned in the Mari letters. So, judging from what you write, Meluhha, that is,
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 17, 2010
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                            --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <michael.banyai@...> wrote:

                            > Dear Francesco,
                            >
                            > Your question can be easily answered. Do we have in the
                            > Mari texts any mentions of Egypt? No.
                            >
                            > Then, since any imaginable route connecting Mari trade to
                            > an African Meluhha, would have necessarily passed by Egypt,
                            > we can have here no mention of an African Meluhha.

                            OK, this apparently settles the question. I didn't know Egypt is never
                            mentioned in the Mari letters.

                            So, judging from what you write, Meluhha, that is, the coastal areas of the by then defunct Indus Civilization, was somewhat 'remembered' in the Mari letters, i.e. in the time of Hammurabi, some centuries after the end of that South Asian civilization.

                            In this case, the shift in the location of Meluhha to eastern Africa (as seen, for instance, in the Amarna letters) must have occurred toward or after the end of the Old Babylonian period.

                            Again thanks! And best regards.

                            Francesco Brighenti
                            Venice, Italy
                          • Rafal Kolinski
                            Dear Francesco,   if you read French, try:   B. Groeneberg, La golfe arabo-persique, vu de MAri, Florilegium MArianum I, 1992, 69-80.   I am sorry for a
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 31, 2012
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                              Dear Francesco,
                               
                              if you read French, try:
                               
                              B. Groeneberg, La golfe arabo-persique, vu de MAri, Florilegium MArianum I, 1992, 69-80.
                               
                              I am sorry for a late answer but only now I was ble to sort through archivail e-mails
                               
                              best regards
                               
                              Rafal Kolinski
                              Institute of Prehistory
                              Adam Mickiewicz University
                              Poznan, Poland


                              ________________________________
                              From: Francesco Brighenti <frabrig@...>
                              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, 28 July 2010, 22:29
                              Subject: [ANE-2] Mari Letters


                               


                              Dear members of the List,

                              In this paper:

                              Nicole Boivin & Dorian Q. Fuller, "Shell Middens, Ships and Seeds: Exploring Coastal Subsistence, Maritime Trade and the Dispersal of Domesticates in and Around the Ancient Arabian Peninsula," _Journal of World Prehistory_ 22 (2009), pp. 113-180,

                              I read (on p. 155):

                              "Evidence for Harappan trade [with the Persian Gulf and Mesopotamia -- Francesco] continues into the Late Harappan period, as evidenced by both archaeological finds and textual sources like the Mari letters (Carter 2001; Warburton 2007). [...] [T]rade was by this point clearly with the Late Harappan communities of Gujarat, rather than the now disintegrated society of the Indus Valley proper."

                              The two sources cited by the authors in this passage are:

                              Carter, R. (2006). Boat remains and maritime trade in the Persian Gulf during the sixth and fifth millennia BC. Antiquity, 80, 52-63.

                              Warburton, D. A. (2007). What happened in the Near East ca. 2000 BC? In E. H. Seland (Ed.), The Indian Ocean in the Ancient Period: Definite places, translocal exchange. Oxford: BAR International Series 1593.

                              Can anyone here provide any references to the above mentioned textual evidence for Indo-Mesopotamian trade relations (allegedly) contained in the Mari Letters (c. 1800 BCE)?

                              Thanks in advance, and best regards.

                              Francesco Brighenti, Ph.D.
                              VAIS -- Venetian Academy of Indian Studies
                              Venice, Italy




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