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Question, Ramat Rahel

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  • RUSSELLGMIRKIN@aol.com
    Dear list, The royal palace in the citadel in Stratum Va of Ramat Rahel uncovered in 1959-1964 was provisionally dated by the excavator Aharoni to the time of
    Message 1 of 6 , May 9 11:17 AM
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      Dear list,

      The royal palace in the citadel in Stratum Va of Ramat Rahel uncovered in
      1959-1964 was provisionally dated by the excavator Aharoni to the time of
      Jehoiakim based on a comparison of window balustrades with proto-Aeolic
      colonnettes with Jer. 22.14, which refers to construction of a royal palace with
      cut windows. Is this likely, given that Jehoiakim only ruled three
      months, the omission of palace location in Jer. 22, and the tenuous redactional
      link between the poem and the preceding reference to Jehoiakim? I know
      there have been ongoing excavations there. Do later excavators concur with
      Aharoni?

      Best regards,
      Russell Gmirkin

      Portland, OR



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • frankclancy
      Dear Russell - Jehoiakim ruled 11 years according to the book of Kings. His son Jehoiachin ruled for 3 months. Usually, you are accurate about these things so
      Message 2 of 6 , May 11 11:55 AM
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        Dear Russell - Jehoiakim ruled 11 years according to the book of Kings. His son Jehoiachin ruled for 3 months. Usually, you are accurate about these things so your mind must be distracted for the moment. However, it is interesting that Daniel 1:1 indicates Jehoiakim ruled for just 3 years and the text describing his rule in the book of Kings says he was a loyal servant of Nebuchadnezzer for 3 years and then rebelled. So the regnal term of 11 years may be the work of redaction. Also, if Jehoiakim had to pay such a large fine, is it likely he had the money to build a new fancy palace?

        Frank Clancy
        Waterloo, Ontario Canada


        --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, RUSSELLGMIRKIN@... wrote:
        >
        > Dear list,
        >
        > The royal palace in the citadel in Stratum Va of Ramat Rahel uncovered in
        > 1959-1964 was provisionally dated by the excavator Aharoni to the time of
        > Jehoiakim based on a comparison of window balustrades with proto-Aeolic
        > colonnettes with Jer. 22.14, which refers to construction of a royal palace with
        > cut windows. Is this likely, given that Jehoiakim only ruled three
        > months, the omission of palace location in Jer. 22, and the tenuous redactional
        > link between the poem and the preceding reference to Jehoiakim? I know
        > there have been ongoing excavations there. Do later excavators concur with
        > Aharoni?
        >
        > Best regards,
        > Russell Gmirkin
        >
        > Portland, OR
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • zmbq
        Well, usually people who pay hefty fines have enough money to pay them. And more often than not, they don t go bankrupt because of those fines. So actually,
        Message 3 of 6 , May 11 9:25 PM
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          Well, usually people who pay hefty fines have enough money to pay them. And more often than not, they don't go bankrupt because of those fines. So actually, having paid a large fine is a positive indication for a good financial situation.

          Itay Zandbank
          Israel

          --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "frankclancy" <clancyfrank@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Russell - Jehoiakim ruled 11 years according to the book of Kings. His son Jehoiachin ruled for 3 months. Usually, you are accurate about these things so your mind must be distracted for the moment. However, it is interesting that Daniel 1:1 indicates Jehoiakim ruled for just 3 years and the text describing his rule in the book of Kings says he was a loyal servant of Nebuchadnezzer for 3 years and then rebelled. So the regnal term of 11 years may be the work of redaction. Also, if Jehoiakim had to pay such a large fine, is it likely he had the money to build a new fancy palace?
          >
          > Frank Clancy
          > Waterloo, Ontario Canada
        • Yigal Levin
          The present excavator, Oded Lipschits of Tel Aviv University, does not think that Ramat Rahel was the palace of any of the kings of Judah. He sees it as the
          Message 4 of 6 , May 12 1:41 AM
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            The present excavator, Oded Lipschits of Tel Aviv University, does not think
            that Ramat Rahel was the palace of any of the kings of Judah. He sees it as
            the seat of the Assyrian, Babylonian and the Persian governors who
            controlled Judah, even while there was still a vassal king in Jerusalem,
            certainly after the city was destroyed. You can see the project website at
            http://www.tau.ac.il/~rmtrachl/index.html.





            Yigal Levin

            Bar-Ilan University

            _____

            From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            frankclancy
            Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:56 PM
            To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [ANE-2] Re: Question, Ramat Rahel





            Dear Russell - Jehoiakim ruled 11 years according to the book of Kings. His
            son Jehoiachin ruled for 3 months. Usually, you are accurate about these
            things so your mind must be distracted for the moment. However, it is
            interesting that Daniel 1:1 indicates Jehoiakim ruled for just 3 years and
            the text describing his rule in the book of Kings says he was a loyal
            servant of Nebuchadnezzer for 3 years and then rebelled. So the regnal term
            of 11 years may be the work of redaction. Also, if Jehoiakim had to pay such
            a large fine, is it likely he had the money to build a new fancy palace?

            Frank Clancy
            Waterloo, Ontario Canada

            --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com,
            RUSSELLGMIRKIN@... wrote:
            >
            > Dear list,
            >
            > The royal palace in the citadel in Stratum Va of Ramat Rahel uncovered in
            > 1959-1964 was provisionally dated by the excavator Aharoni to the time of
            > Jehoiakim based on a comparison of window balustrades with proto-Aeolic
            > colonnettes with Jer. 22.14, which refers to construction of a royal
            palace with
            > cut windows. Is this likely, given that Jehoiakim only ruled three
            > months, the omission of palace location in Jer. 22, and the tenuous
            redactional
            > link between the poem and the preceding reference to Jehoiakim? I know
            > there have been ongoing excavations there. Do later excavators concur with

            > Aharoni?
            >
            > Best regards,
            > Russell Gmirkin
            >
            > Portland, OR





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • RUSSELLGMIRKIN@aol.com
            Yigal, Thanks for the comments clarifying the interpretation of the site held by Oded Lipschits. The Ramat Rahel website hinted in that direction (that the
            Message 5 of 6 , May 12 11:39 AM
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              Yigal,

              Thanks for the comments clarifying the interpretation of the site held by
              Oded Lipschits. The Ramat Rahel website hinted in that direction (that the
              palace citadel of Stratum Va was not that of a Judean king). A passage
              from the website I quote below indicated that "A luxurious Assyrian palace
              was found in the debris that covered the citadel after its destruction by the
              Babylonians." Am I to infer that this Assyrian palace is the same one
              that previous excavators attributed to either Jehoiachin or his father
              Jehoiakim?

              Best regards,
              Russell Gmirkin

              From _http://www.tau.ac.il/~rmtrachl/archaeology%20of%20site.htm_
              (http://www.tau.ac.il/~rmtrachl/archaeology%20of%20site.htm) :

              "The royal citadel at Ramat Rahel is one of the most instructive examples
              of Israelite-Phoenician architecture in the biblical period. The
              construction of the casemate walls and the buildings of the citadel were of excellent
              quality, with smoothed and squared stones laid in well-fitted courses. The
              main gate, built of large, dressed stones, also shows fine workmanship.
              Several complete proto-Aeolic capitals were found in the ruins of the
              citadel; they once decorated the doorposts of the main gate and the entrances to
              the buildings.
              "Window balustrades consisting of a row of stone colonnettes, decorated
              with palmettes and topped with joined capitals in the proto-Aeolic style,
              were also found. They probably adorned the upper story of the buildings inside
              the citadel. These decorative architectural elements echo a verse in the
              book of Jeremiah, which describes the windows in the house of Jehoiakim,
              king of Judah: "and cut out windows for it, paneling it with cedar, and
              painting it with vermilion... " (Jeremiah 22:14).
              "A luxurious Assyrian palace was found in the debris that covered the
              citadel after its destruction by the Babylonians. One of the unique finds was a
              seal impression with the inscription to Eliaqim, steward of Yochin.
              Eliaqim is thought to have been an official of King Jehoiachin, king of Judah and
              son of King Jehoiakim."
              The present excavator, Oded Lipschits of Tel Aviv University, does not
              think
              that Ramat Rahel was the palace of any of the kings of Judah. He sees it as
              the seat of the Assyrian, Babylonian and the Persian governors who
              controlled Judah, even while there was still a vassal king in Jerusalem,
              certainly after the city was destroyed. You can see the project website at
              _http://www.tau.http://www.tau.http://www._
              (http://www.tau.ac.il/~rmtrachl/index.html.)

              Yigal Levin

              Bar-Ilan University


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • zmbq
              Hi. I was one on a tour at the site with one of the excavators (not Oded, someone who worked with him whose name eludes me). He, too, raised the possibility
              Message 6 of 6 , May 14 12:19 AM
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                Hi.

                I was one on a tour at the site with one of the excavators (not Oded, someone who worked with him whose name eludes me). He, too, raised the possibility that the site was originally an Assyrian palace used to keep an eye on Jerusalem. He also suggested that it was indeed used by the Jeohiakim, which was at a time after the fall of the Assyrian empire.

                Both suggestions are reasonable (and non-exclusive), I don't know if there's any way of disproving one of them with the finds we have today.

                Itay Zandbank
                Israel

                --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, RUSSELLGMIRKIN@... wrote:
                >
                > Yigal,
                >
                > Thanks for the comments clarifying the interpretation of the site held by
                > Oded Lipschits. The Ramat Rahel website hinted in that direction (that the
                > palace citadel of Stratum Va was not that of a Judean king). A passage
                > from the website I quote below indicated that "A luxurious Assyrian palace
                > was found in the debris that covered the citadel after its destruction by the
                > Babylonians." Am I to infer that this Assyrian palace is the same one
                > that previous excavators attributed to either Jehoiachin or his father
                > Jehoiakim?
                >
                > Best regards,
                > Russell Gmirkin
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